Silly question about Alk tests

[cam78]

When you do Alk test, ya know how the first drop usually changes the color to blue? Then you keep adding drops until it goes to yellow. My question is this.....When counting the drops do you count the first drop changing the water to blue or do you just count the drops from blue to yellow? I am using a Seachem test but I am pretty sure they are pretty much all the same.

 

[nikesb]

do yourself a favor and ditch the seachem tests. highly unaccurate. the API test kit is very good for alk tests. the new hanna meter is also good as long as you do it following lab procedures

 

[btldreef]

Nike, I almost always agree with you, but have you tried the SeaChem tests in awhile? They're not so bad anymore, and I've found them to be almost as accurate as my Saiifert and API kits. I actually LOVE the SeaChem Nitrite/Nitrate combo test.

 

[nikesb]

The problem with seachem is their control. Even the new test kits that were sent to us were inaccurate. Just as salt gets bad batches, test kits get more variation from batch to batch.
The nitrate test was measured to be +/- 20% difference. All tests were tested against lab grade measurements (did it at my university

).
As for alk, it was surprising to see how accurate the alk test was on the API. Salifert has a different measurement for alk as well which roughly measured 1.8-2.0 dkh lower than API. Talking with one of the chemists on rc a while back, he said salifert was using seawater measurements and not just regular saltwater measurements which API was using. Either way, the most important part of alk is to have the right range and to keep it stable. CAM, what numbers are you getting when it starts changing colors? Usually the full change means the correct alk, as we're doing a caveman way of titration. For me, I like to get the number that it starts to turn but not completely and add .5 to that.

 

[cam78]

OK, I figured out the answer by using their reference. Its the amount of drops AFTER the first drop. Anyway my Alk is low. This test measures Total Alk. The meq/L is only 3.5. I am trying to get my Calcium reactor to start producing more but its a pain in the A$$ trying to adjust it. I recently lowered the flow rate and increased the bubbles. Its been two days so if nothing changes by tomorrow I am gonna have to continue to screw with it. My PH is 8.3 and Calcium is 400

 

[btldreef]

Woah! If you have a calcium reactor, you definitely need better kits. Go with Salifert or Elos and API for quick tests. Also, if you're running a calcium reactor, especially when you're still trying to find it's "sweet spot" for running it, you should also be testing pH.

 

[cam78]

I am testing PH. Its at 8.3. I know, a little lower then it supposed to be. I just tried testing the water expelling from the calcium reactor because it says that the water from there the PH should be around 6.5-6.7. My test kit only goes to 7 something. I tested the ALK coming out from the reactor and that is at at 10.5 meq/L. 29.4 DKH (lol, sounds weird). So with this going for a few days I'll have to see what my levels get to. These instructions are directly from the guys at MTC. I was specifically told to put my flow at .05 and the bubble counter at 2 per second. I'm a little less then 2 per sec so I guess I'll see what happens.
Also the other thing that MTC was telling me was....Take your calcium kits and throw them away. Basically he said that the most important level in a reef is the DKH/Total Alk. He said in their system they maintain a DKH at around 12 and this will keep all your levels at what THEY NEED TO BE depending on what your coral consumes calcium-wise. He promised that if I maintain a DKH at 12 my tank will thrive. Interesting talking to them over there.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM78 http:///forum/thread/385768/silly-question-about-alk-tests#post_3384883
OK, I figured out the answer by using their reference. Its the amount of drops AFTER the first drop. Anyway my Alk is low. This test measures Total Alk. The meq/L is only 3.5. I am trying to get my Calcium reactor to start producing more but its a pain in the A$$ trying to adjust it. I recently lowered the flow rate and increased the bubbles. Its been two days so if nothing changes by tomorrow I am gonna have to continue to screw with it. My PH is 8.3 and Calcium is 400
An Alkalinity of 3.5 Meq/L is perfect for Calcium = 400ppm in my opinion. There is no good reason I can think of the have it any higher than that.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM78 http:///forum/thread/385768/silly-question-about-alk-tests#post_3384905
Also the other thing that MTC was telling me was....Take your calcium kits and throw them away. Basically he said that the most important level in a reef is the DKH/Total Alk. He said in their system they maintain a DKH at around 12 and this will keep all your levels at what THEY NEED TO BE depending on what your coral consumes calcium-wise. He promised that if I maintain a DKH at 12 my tank will thrive. Interesting talking to them over there.
Hmmm I do not consider this to be good advice. I agree Alkalinity is more important than Calcium as a parameter but it needs to be tested and tracked just like Alkalinity. They are assuming that Carbonate and Calcium are always consumed at exactly the same rate and this is simply not true, close, but not exact.

 

[mr. limpid]

Know I'm confused i thuoght the calcium level should be between 460 - 480ppm?

 

[nikesb]

i like to keep mine between 420-460. the calcium level should be monitored to make sure its readily available for corals. of course a 300 range reading just means its a lesser concentration, therefor corals cant get it as abundantly.

 

[cam78]

I don't know what they are really assuming Bang Guy. I always value your opinion and knowledge. Speaking to them though they make it sound like once the Alk is at the constant and desired rate of 11-12 (DKH) that everything will balance itself out with calcium and PH. I know they all basically work of one another but I did get a little confused speaking to them. Again though I value their opinion as well. Obviously they are very intelligent people and make great products. I am open to any suggestions and further discussion.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM78 http:///forum/thread/385768/silly-question-about-alk-tests#post_3384973
I don't know what they are really assuming Bang Guy. I always value your opinion and knowledge. Speaking to them though they make it sound like once the Alk is at the constant and desired rate of 11-12 (DKH) that everything will balance itself out with calcium and PH. I know they all basically work of one another but I did get a little confused speaking to them. Again though I value their opinion as well. Obviously they are very intelligent people and make great products. I am open to any suggestions and further discussion.
I think you're fine just the way you are. I would suggest not changing a thing.
One the advice side, Calcium & ALK do not automatically balance. If you only worry about ALK eventually your Calcium will be at an unbalanced level. In my experience it will probably slowly rise. There will come a time when it will interfere with maintaining your ALK level. Depending on how often you do water changes will determine how long it will take to become unbalanced and of course the parameter levels of the water you use to change will also have a large effect.
All I suggest is that you continue to test your parameters and chart them to determine if supply is meeting or exceeding demand. Natural Sea Water has an Alkalinity of 2.0 - 2.5 Meq/L. There is good reason to keep is slightly higher but no good reason I have found to keep it really high.