Since we've discussed just about every other taboo subject... Euthanasia?

cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3290011
Semantics-they stopped feeding and watering her to end her life. That is euthanasia, not allowing nature to take its' course. That is taking actions to CAUSE someone's death. That is euthanasia.
I'm sorry.... I didn't realize nature made silicone tubes. My bad.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3290002
"Schindler family members stated that even if Terri had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."
Why would you think it was okay to give this decision to her parents.... they wanted what they wanted, not what she wanted. If she did indead express these wishes to her husband, he's the one that did her right.
BUT! Why are we talking about Shiavo here in a euthanasia discussion? I just looked her up... she's in Florida. Euthanasia isn't legal in Florida. Now, you can argue whether or not is WAS indeed Euthanasia, but in the legal sense, what happened to her was not considered Euthanasia.
Because that was family. The "husband" in my book was not (see previous exchange). And she obviously had not made he final wishes clear legally. So it should fall to her next of kin.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
IMO, it happened like it should have with the laws in place today. The marriage wasn't void because he had moved on. The way the laws are written, it's my husband who has the right to make my life/death decisions, not my parents. You don't just have to become estranged to become divorced. It takes a divorce to become divorced and until then, right or wrong, in all situations, it's the hubby that legally makes the call. If this isn't satisfactory for all, they should lobby to get it changed. And blood is not the strongest tie in every situation. Kin does NOT always have the best intentions when it comes to family and that should not be the default. So whether we "think" he was still her husband, he legally was.
My parents don't actually know my wishes either.... we've never discussed it. My husband however does.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3290011
Semantics-they stopped feeding and watering her to end her life. That is euthanasia, not allowing nature to take its' course. That is taking actions to CAUSE someone's death. That is euthanasia.
If they had allowed nature to take its course she would have been dead years ago.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3290143
If they had allowed nature to take its course she would have been dead years ago.
But then the question is where does nature start vs say surgry to to fix something wrong...
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3290145
But then the question is where does nature start vs say surgry to to fix something wrong...
That depends on several factors - the severity of the disease, the age of the person, the medical history of a person.
That's why we have medicines and surgical procedures to "Fix what ails us." But sometimes it's pointless to use those procedures if you know that death is inevitable. My wife says she gets these elderly patients in her unit that can't stand on their own, can't go to the bathroom without a catheter, and needs someone to help them eat and drink. All their major organs are slowly shutting down, and they wouldn't live through the surgery to replace them even if they were a viable candidate for a transplant. Yet some doctor will keep pumping drugs into them so that they sustain what you would call some semblance of life, because some family member isn't ready to let them go. So yes, although there is a surgical procedure available to repair the damage, it makes no sense to do it when 'nature' is telling you that it's simply "time to go".
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Yeah, there are some really expensive drugs and treatments that extend like like 3 months. OK, if you get 3 months of a relatively normal existence but an extra 3 months in a hospital or nursing home? No thank you.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3290159
That depends on several factors - the severity of the disease, the age of the person, the medical history of a person.
That was my point, you can't write a law, saying X because everyone is different...
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3290214
That was my point, you can't write a law, saying X because everyone is different...
Nothing is black and white in the medical field. It will never be so. But we go by guidelines for "success". As new issues arise, we deal with it and come up with new standards of care.
Maybe peeps need to come up with ways of insuring everyone has an advance directives. When you turn 18, get your license, register to vote, file your yearly taxes (the latter insuring your wishes are updated)... something. That's a part of our admission process and every visit to the ER... "Do you have an advance directive".
But really... what are we debating here. Euthanasia includes a plethora of meanings if you look up the definition. Are we talking outright killing someone with a terminal illness/condition (which is the definition we use in the medical field when talking about Euthanasia)? Assisted suicide (like the link the OP posted)? Or withdrawing support? They are all different topics that carry with it it's own unique issues.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3290272
Nothing is black and white in the medical field. It will never be so. But we go by guidelines for "success". As new issues arise, we deal with it and come up with new standards of care.
Maybe peeps need to come up with ways of insuring everyone has an advance directive. When you turn 18, get your license, register to vote, file your yearly taxes (the latter insuring your wishes are updated)... something. That's a part of our admission process and every visit to the ER... "Do you have an advance directive".
But really... what are we debating here. Euthanasia includes a plethora of meanings if you look up the definition. Are we talking outright killing someone with a terminal illness/condition (which is the definition we use in the medical field when talking about Euthanasia)? Assisted suicide (like the link the OP posted)? Or withdrawing support? They are all different topics that carry with it it's own unique issues.
Personally I was debating it to waste time at work.. :)
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3290462
You work? So how is that Chippendale gig workin' out for you?

Good, btw how you're wife doing? I haven't seen her in a couple of weeks.

Nah but seriously, I'm working way too much, but the way this project has evolved it has turned into tons of data entry. Which means I need to get destracted for a couple hours a day or I"ll go crazy. There is only so many documents I can track in 12 hours a day before I go crazy.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3290470
Good, btw how you're wife doing? I haven't seen her in a couple of weeks.

Nah but seriously, I'm working way too much, but the way this project has evolved it has turned into tons of data entry. Which means I need to get destracted for a couple hours a day or I"ll go crazy. There is only so many documents I can track in 12 hours a day before I go crazy.
Still perfecting her pole dancing. Bet she makes twice the number of tips than you do...
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3290500
Still perfecting her pole dancing. Bet she makes twice the number of tips than you do...
speaking of tips, I have a "friend" more like a coworker's girlfriend. Anyway, she owns a bar. (Not adult entertainment.) And is doing pretty good. Anyway she decided to get an augmentation. She gets back, and her week take on tips went up from like 200 bucks to closer to 1000. Talk about a good ROI... (and keep in mind she's the owner, so she isn't the main bartender.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Nice try Cran. I never said it was letting "nature take it's course". I said they took actions to end her life. That is euthanasia. Putting a rattlesnake in her bed and letting her die from the poison after she is bitten is nature taking it's course, but it is still taking action to end her life. I think she should have been allowed to die "naturally" years before. I also think instead of allowing her to die of dehydration, she should have been given an overdose of sodium pentathol so if there was any chance she was still "in there" there was no chance she'd suffer. But there aren't any clean or moral hands in taking a life through euthanasia even when (gasp) it is justified.
 
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