Sins of *****

[willsmith1]

Originally Posted by MichaelTX
you can but anemones need a stronger light than most of the corals that they sell. so in thier situation no they cant keep them alive for very long under the same light.
Mike
Oh, ok. Thanks Mike

 

[ophiura]

Have any of you gone and looked at your LFS lighting? Because I guarantee you, most are also using fluorescents on many of their tanks housing corals or anemones.
The animals are not intended to be there long enough to show signs of poor lighting, and indeed, for most poor lighting is the least of the concerns.
Many stores do not acclimate. Many...in fact there are other theories on acclimation and reasons many stores do not do it. Frankly, pretty darn good reasons.
Heck, bad advice? Employees that don't know what they are talking about? Common, very common. Not unique in any way to *****'s. And it is even more unbelievable when it happens at stores that specialize in selling fish. But I encounter it all the time.
I can name several LFS in this area that are as bad or worse than the local ***** - which is not good, BTW. I know that this is not a rare thing. So where are all those threads?

 

[wbradenpt]

i originally bought my first setup at a chain aquarium store close by me. not only did they specialize in aquariums and not know what they are doing, but i had the fools set up and maintain the tank for the first couple of months. big mistake. when i first started the hobby, i didn't feel i had the time, so i hired people. learned from necessity.
at least the store in this thread has cheap prices. the one that set up my system has outrageous prices. at the time, i thought that you get what you pay for. learned a lot in the last few years.
i now travel about 45 minutes to lfs that is outstanding. they have MH lighting and even grow their own frags, plus have internet pricing. obviously they are the exception, not the rule. i had them help design my new setup. things have been perfect from the beginning with this one.

 

[natemd]

I agree with some lfs being just as bad. I went to a store near me that has been very good for the past couple years to me, however is under new management. All of the old timers there that knew their stuff quit because they were now soley trying to make a profit rather than offer good products and knowledge hoping to get your repeat business. So I go to where the coral tanks were and was made sick, not by the condition but the prices. They were trying to sell a small colt coral for $98 and then they had just a genaric leather for $85. It made me so mad I left on principal and went to another store to buy some supplies.

 

[oniel21]

Many stores do not acclimate. Many...in fact there are other theories on acclimation and reasons many stores do not do it. Frankly, pretty darn good reasons.QUOTE]
Ophiura, I'm curious to know what these theories are.

 

[scotty37]

you would flip at the one in winchester VA then. they have anemones in there right now and some corals, same situation. Nothing is for sale because of all the ich. And its hard to even see the fish through all the hair algae. They have 2 tanks of live rock that they didnt even take the paper tags off of.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by oniel21
Ophiura, I'm curious to know what these theories are.

Not to get too far off topic, but one of the primary reasons to not acclimate these animals is due to the amount of time they are in bags from the wholesaler to the final destination. Often overnight or longer.
This leads to a build up of CO2 in the bags, which drops the pH. Ammonia also build up in the bags, due to waste. Somewhat serendipitous is the fact that as pH drops, ammonia becomes less toxic.
But as pH increases, it becomes more toxic.
If you say drip acclimate these animals, you run the risk of increasing the pH and increasing the toxicity of the ammonia at the same time. So many do argue that the shock from sudden change in pH and salinity would be preferable than the acclimation. For fish, this could be a reasonable argument. For certain inverts, snails and echinoderms specifically, I don't think it is valid. But for corals it may be OK. Corals can be exposed to air during low tides after all.

 

[michaeltx]

also most of the time we drip acclimate to get the salinity to our tank levels most of the LFS * if they are good* and shippers have about the same salinity if not exact so the acclimation to salinity isnt as big of a deal anymore. the invoice papers of many wholesaler comes with the salinity at the top of the invoice.
Mike

 

[brandan]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Oh Yippy!!! Another bash ***** thread!!
If you do not like *****...
DO NOT SHOP THERE
AT ALL
FOR ANYTHING
CASE CLOSED.
By buying ANYTHING there you are supporting the store. If you bought the animals, they would get new one's.
But how is it that so many people know all these horror stories about their *****? Why are you there buying stuff if it is that bad??? I am always confused by this...
Not all *****'s are the same. Please do not make blanket statements about that. But honestly. If you have a problem with the store, don't buy anything there.
Very well said. I second everything Ophiura. . . .

 

[brandan]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Not to get too far off topic, but one of the primary reasons to not acclimate these animals is due to the amount of time they are in bags from the wholesaler to the final destination. Often overnight or longer.
This leads to a build up of CO2 in the bags, which drops the pH. Ammonia also build up in the bags, due to waste. Somewhat serendipitous is the fact that as pH drops, ammonia becomes less toxic.
But as pH increases, it becomes more toxic.
If you say drip acclimate these animals, you run the risk of increasing the pH and increasing the toxicity of the ammonia at the same time. So many do argue that the shock from sudden change in pH and salinity would be preferable than the acclimation. For fish, this could be a reasonable argument. For certain inverts, snails and echinoderms specifically, I don't think it is valid. But for corals it may be OK. Corals can be exposed to air during low tides after all.
This information is 100% correct. Many times some fish are only in the bags a few hours. Some fish stores here in Indy get thier fish from a company just in IL. This means from being bagged, to floating in the tanks, is usually less than 5 hours. The amount of waste built up is minimal, and the pH change in the bag is also very minimal. Drip acclimating is great, but seems primarily for when you are taking a fish from Natural Seawater, to Synthetic Seawater. This is done LONG before a fish is introduced to some pet store 1000miles inland of any ocean. Just my 2 cents. There are reasons for different types of acclimating, and there is a time and place for each. "end of thread jack".

 

[sambasam]

only shop at "Ocean fish r us" its the best place.

 

[blaze98]

I have 6 *****'s within a 20 minute drive. Only one of them has a decent Saltwater collection. There is a seperate tank for corals that has MH lighting, and they will not even sell saltwater fish unless their saltwaterfish expert is on hand, or available by phone.....This is the ONLY ***** that I frequent, it is the furthest from me, but well worth the drive to receive quality merchandise.

 

[jbracing]

say wat you want about ***** but about 2 years ago they had a asfur angel there and the ediot there didnt no what it was sold it as an bicolor one of the nices fish in the tank

 

[amphitrite]

Um...as much as I hate to admit this...I used to run the reptile div for our ***** and, while it might be regional or things changed, we picked our own inventory (in each dept) with the exception of your basic damsels, or mice,or iguanas. The vendors would send a list of their inventory and prices and then we'd order what we thought might sell. (Only product like toys,food,etc and animals on sale were through corp). Some people only ordered what looked cool and didn't care that it wouldn't live for long or be outrageuosly priced for the surrounding market. The new ***** near me has done a very stupid move and stocked alot of expensive fish that aren't moving.
Funny how they are still in business-promoting the wellness of animals as their less than desirable groomers roast and kill dogs in the cages, the fish (we have gone there), they always had anoles and mice escaping in the store. While some are decent, overall the bad outweighs the good in my opinion

 

[cj7eagle]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Not to get too far off topic, but one of the primary reasons to not acclimate these animals is due to the amount of time they are in bags from the wholesaler to the final destination. Often overnight or longer.
This leads to a build up of CO2 in the bags, which drops the pH. Ammonia also build up in the bags, due to waste. Somewhat serendipitous is the fact that as pH drops, ammonia becomes less toxic.
But as pH increases, it becomes more toxic.
If you say drip acclimate these animals, you run the risk of increasing the pH and increasing the toxicity of the ammonia at the same time. So many do argue that the shock from sudden change in pH and salinity would be preferable than the acclimation. For fish, this could be a reasonable argument. For certain inverts, snails and echinoderms specifically, I don't think it is valid. But for corals it may be OK. Corals can be exposed to air during low tides after all.
now if i read this right, you are saying it may be better just to temp acclimate, as opposed to drip, any fish we order online. Am I correct?

 

[ophiura]

No, I won't go so far as to suggest it either way. It is something to research the different opinions on, and go from there.
It would be worth, at the very least, testing the shipping water to see what you are dealing with in terms of pH and ammonia, specific gravity, etc.
But acclimation is something everyone should research and consider for themselves what way to go.

I'm not going out on that limb, just explaining why many LFS do not acclimate their fish.

 

[cj7eagle]

Thanks, You make very valid points, something i never really considered. I always thought drip was the way to go. For me though, its whats best for me. I wont buy fish online anymore. I have done it once, and didnt like the idea of not seeing my fish purchase in person. So the short trip from the store to my tank leaves little time for ammonia build up.

 

[bakers_dozen]

My ***** is about medium, it;s not as horrible as some of you guys describe but they could certainly have improvement. My suggestion would be to make a petition, not against ***** carrying saltwater fish but only carrying fish that they have the necessary tools for to keep them healthy, however, not to an impossibly strict degree, because we do have to remember two things. If you want to make a difference in this area compromise and politness is the key and two we do have to remember that the animals are not supposed to be in that environment for extremely long (what i am saying is don't make it so they have to have like a 50 gallon tank for one fish who should normally be in that size tank, because you will very rarely find it.)
Start a petition stating what you want and have people post names. I've seen it work before, even on forums

 

[brandan]

Originally Posted by bakers_dozen
My ***** is about medium, it;s not as horrible as some of you guys describe but they could certainly have improvement. My suggestion would be to make a petition, not against ***** carrying saltwater fish but only carrying fish that they have the necessary tools for to keep them healthy, however, not to an impossibly strict degree, because we do have to remember two things. If you want to make a difference in this area compromise and politness is the key and two we do have to remember that the animals are not supposed to be in that environment for extremely long (what i am saying is don't make it so they have to have like a 50 gallon tank for one fish who should normally be in that size tank, because you will very rarely find it.)
Start a petition stating what you want and have people post names. I've seen it work before, even on forums
If you think you can change *****'s hundreds and hundreds of store, then by all means, try. But I personally do not think you can change the outlook on a huge privately owned company.

 

[spacepolice05]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Oh Yippy!!! Another bash ***** thread!!
If you do not like *****...
DO NOT SHOP THERE
AT ALL
FOR ANYTHING
CASE CLOSED.
By buying ANYTHING there you are supporting the store. If you bought the animals, they would get new one's.
But how is it that so many people know all these horror stories about their *****? Why are you there buying stuff if it is that bad??? I am always confused by this...
Not all *****'s are the same. Please do not make blanket statements about that. But honestly. If you have a problem with the store, don't buy anything there.

I completely agree with this statement. I am new to the forum and all I hear is how horrible ***** is and yada yada yada. Why don't people stop buying from them and find a real fish store. If you continue to buy from them then that is your problem, not everyone's on the forum. Keep it to yourself and buy from somewhere else.