Small Aggressive Marine Tank?

[ariaanna]

hey all..... I've been keeping tropical freshwater for about 2 years and I'm interested in crossing over to marine. I looked to see if there were any threads along these lines, but none really seemed to say what i wanted to know, hence this thread. I'm working to get together some money for college, so I'd rather start out with a small tank, but I know that makes it more difficult to take care of the fish and it drastically decreases the number of fish I can have. I was thinking about getting maybe a 33 long and putting just ONE aggressive fish in it with maybe a cleanup crew. my top nominations are:
"Blue Spot Pufferfish" (Canthigaster epilamprus)
"Saddled Valentini Pufferfish" (Canthigaster valentini)
"Antennata Lionfish" (Pterois antennata)
"Fu Manchu Lionfish" (Dendrochirus biocellatus)
or Dwarf/Zebra Lionfish (Dendrochirus zebra)
and if you feel all those are too aggressive/difficult to take care of, I'm interested in bangaii cardinals, but would much rather have one large, aggressive fish than a small marine community.
I don't have the tank yet, so don't get upset and say there's no way any of those fish will fit in it. I'm asking advice BEFORE I put ANY money into the venture, so when I DO spend money, I'm spending it wisely. since it's summer now, I'm going to head to some yard sales in hopes of some newly graduated college students moving away and selling off their fish tanks, and I'll keep you posted if I find something worth buying. otherwise, I'd like to know what you recommend.
I like aggressive fish, I have three different types of freshwater puffers at present.
space and money are an issue, but if I find a great deal on a tank, I'll MAKE the space for it.
I'm expecting to need a cleanup crew of some type, but I don't know what I can get- I'm pretty sure the puffers would attack/eat any snails and hermit crabs I might have, and I'm not certain I'm ready to tackle a lionfish, so I would appreciate recommendations on cleanup.
I have several friends who have a LOT of experience with marine tanks, so they can help me with maintenance and the like. but they've only kept reef tanks and don't really have any experience with the more aggressive fish.
if you have any more suggestions for fish I should research, please tell me. I'd prefer to not buy anything over $30.
ps- sorry if this is rather incoherent, I haven't gone to sleep yet and it's nearly 7 a.m. here. I'll be checking in later on in the day to see what is said (if anything) and if there's anything that needs clarification, I'll take care of that then.

 

[ophiura]

If you haven't already, I would suggest you research or post in the aggressive fish forum on this board where they can give you more specifics on some of the types of fish you are interested in, and their needs and tank limitations.

 

[ariaanna]

i already did..... why do you think i was up so late last night? :sleepy: (not meant to be rude or sarcastic in any way, promise!)
i know they said that if you were careful, you could fit a fu manchu in a 29, and if a dwarf lionfish were the ONLY THING in the tank, you could put one in a thirty, but i'd like to know what size you'd recommend, or if you think that a single-fish only venture as my first foray into the saltwater world is a good idea. if i were to go larger, i might be able to put a few more fish in there.
but my really big questions pertain to cleaning crew- i just have no idea how many snails/hermit crabs are a reasonable amount for a tank that size with a fish such as these.
i posted here b/c i figured you all could give me advice on tank size and cleaning crew (which are really my main questions)
but if this is in the wrong section, by all means, move it!

 

[ophiura]

It crosses forums Your initial questions on set up and such belong here, but the type of fish you are interested in may be best answered by those "aggressive" folks!
But definitely sounds like you've already done your work on the background.
The type and numbers of clean up crew will depend on the type of aggressive fish you go with. Puffers, for example (and I'll throw in triggers, large wrasses) are a threat to much of the clean up crew while lions would not be so much. But the thing with the cleaning crew is that it is a factor a little bit later. YOu can always add as time goes on. You may start with a dozen snails/hermits and add more if you feel you need it...relating to the type of fish and the feeding it gets. Type of substrate may also play a role (if you do crushed coral, for example, you may just be siphoning it a lot).
I don't see a problem with the single fish venture because I think 1) that the 30g range is a nice starter tank size (not too small, not too big) and that 2) OVERSTOCKING is one of the biggest problems with a new saltwater hobbyist.
So if someone says "I want one fish in a 30g" and it seems like a reasonable choice, well, that sounds good to me
Now, you could easily do like a 30g long with a valentini or other "toby" puffer and some other smaller "reef associated" fish. But the lions will need more room so you may not get another fish.

 

[lionfish99]

ariaanna i'm in the same boat as you, I just crossed over to Marine after having freshwater forabout 1-2 years. The best advice i can give you is pick the fish you want and stick to it (don't do the ohh well they don't have it i'll just get this) I'm set on the Volitan Lion and thats what i'm gettin. I agree with you though agressive fish are by far the coolest fish. Out of curiousity what size tank do you have?

 

[ariaanna]

well, i haven't bought my tank yet, hence this thread. i want to be certain that i have the tank i want before i start spending money. and i'm not certain which fish i want. as soon as i have more time, i'm going to post in the aggressive fish forum to get feedback from them.
i hope your foray into the SW world is going well! I can't wait to get mine started!

 

[irishsalt]

Hey,
Let me be honest, Marine isn't *cheap* but it's not some hobby reserved for Elitist rich people with to much time on their hands(like some would assert)...lol. If you do it right to begin with, with high quality stuff, you'll save money in the long run and thankyourself. DON'T buy a Cheap ass Protein skimmer, DON'T buy any crappy LiveRock that you come across. Shop around Locally and on the net. Keep in mind that Opinions are like you know what!
I love ALL types of Tanks but Agressive fish are hands down my fave. I've got a Very happy and very Healthy 3" Juvy Volitan in my 29g right now. Some would say...*OMFG you can't do that*. I say, it's my money I can do whatever I want. LionFish are awesome and Volitans are the most *Hardy* ime and still beautiful. Fu Manchu Lions are gorgeous but much more sensitive and harder to keep then a Volitan IME. I personally wouldn't put a Fu Manchu Lion in a tank smaller then 125g!
The Transition from Fresh to Marine should be relatively easy as most of the Fundamentals are the same. The Obvious Differences are the need for HIgher levels of Bio filtration and Salt in the water instead of none...lol IME Freshwater persons genreally don't check their Levels as often as Marine vets. As you may know by now, Levels are much more sensitive in smaller tanks. Everyone says it and I'll say it again, You'll start out with a 29g, then you'll want a 55g, then you'll want a 125g....then you'll want a custom 310+gallon...lol. Larger tanks with great filtration can actually cost less in the long run IME. Big tanks are easier to keep/Maintain in the long run...period.
I'd normally say start with a Minimum 40 Breeder tank. They stomp all over a regular 55. as far as Aquascaping goes with their 18" of depth. To this day, the most Breathtaking reef tanks I've seen under 125g. have been 40 Breeders. Alas, you want agressive and a Juvy Volitan in a 55g would probably kick ass.
FYI.....My Volitan is DIRTY....He's eating mostly Ghost Shrimp, Frozen Silverside pieces and small Rosies when I can find them. If you introduce your Lion to a variety of Meat - and early age, he'll be easier to keep and healthier in the long run. They can be very finiky but eventually they have to eat...lol. Your gonna need Lots of LiveRock, a good LiveSand bed and a quality Protein skimmer - the least. I don't like Sumps on small tanks but it's all a matter of prefference. Read and ask questions everywhere(LFS and the net).
Also, I've never seen it before but my Lion swallowed a tiny Hermit alive and then spit him out whilst my GF's kid was watching. He was obviously hungry...lol
Peace

 

[lionfish99]

I have one thing for you I was talking in an earlier tread and i was told that the Volitan Lionfish aboslutly LOVE!! Marine Cuisine and Frozen Squid. If you wanna give that a try it can't hurt.

 

[irishsalt]

Originally Posted by Lionfish99
I have one thing for you I was talking in an earlier tread and i was told that the Volitan Lionfish aboslutly LOVE!! Marine Cuisine and Frozen Squid. If you wanna give that a try it can't hurt.

Never tried Squid....I eat lots-0-Sushi, I probably have some good Squid in my big freezer. IME any diet with Variety is great for meat eaters. Pure Ghost Shrimp diet with a XXL Lion can take a hit on the pocketbook.
Thanks*

 

[itchy]

why would you put a Volitan in a 29 gal and then recommend a 125 for a fu man chu? You might be all right now but that volitan is going to outgrow that 29 rather quickly.
Put it this way...would you rather be in a 6x6 room or a 12x12? Sure you could live in it but wouldn't you be pis*ed after a while and not happy? :thinking: :nope:
Ariannan,
I think one of the big things with aggressive fish is their eating habits! That is why you will read that most people suggest larger tanks for them. True most of them get big but they are also very sloppy eaters. Very interresting pets but need a lot of attention on the tank mateniece.

 

[ariaanna]

yah, i was already planning on going for the best stuff money can buy- i'm going to be saving up for quite some time. but while i'm saving, i still wanted to do some research. and i know i'm going to want bigger tanks- i just don't have the room right now. some day i'm either going to sell off all the smaller setups, fish and all, and concentrate on just 2 large tanks, or my house is going to explode with fish tanks, i think.
i really like volitan lions, but i've read that they need at the absolute least a 75 gallon, preferably 80 or 90 gallon. but like i said earlier, i don't really have any place for a tank larger than, say, a 55. and even so, that would be pushing it.....
also..... i thought that lionfish and puffers didn't need live rock/live sand? it wouldn't be a BAD addition and it would help speed up cycling, but it wasn't a necessary addition? (correct me if i'm wrong, that's just the impression i was under.)
^oh, i know that aggressive fish are very messy. my puffers have cleanup crews bigger than they are and they get a LOT of attention from me. i'm not afraid of a little hard work! i actually find fish tank maintenance very relaxing.... if i had a car, i would look into getting a job in that.

 

[irishsalt]

Originally Posted by itchy
why would you put a Volitan in a 29 gal and then recommend a 125 for a fu man chu? You might be all right now but that volitan is going to outgrow that 29 rather quickly.
Put it this way...would you rather be in a 6x6 room or a 12x12? Sure you could live in it but wouldn't you be pis*ed after a while and not happy? :thinking: :nope:
Ariannan,
I think one of the big things with aggressive fish is their eating habits! That is why you will read that most people suggest larger tanks for them. True most of them get big but they are also very sloppy eaters. Very interresting pets but need a lot of attention on the tank mateniece.
Hey man,
I should have mentioned...... I was going to setup a 125g agressive but my woman and I closed on our new dream house yesterday. I'm doin a custom 310g. IN wall. Do you think 310g's is big enough? He'll be chilling in that tank within three months.
Good point about eating habits with ARessive fish(mostly meat eaters).

 

[itchy]

Hey Irish, he will be much happier in a 310 gallon.. Hell i think I might be happier in a 310 gallon...lol.
Arianna, it is always good to educate yourself prior to buying anything new. I only wished I had this board when I first got into SW, would have saved me a bunch of money

Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Robyn

 

[irishsalt]

Originally Posted by itchy
Hey Irish, he will be much happier in a 310 gallon.. Hell i think I might be happier in a 310 gallon...lol.
Arianna, it is always good to educate yourself prior to buying anything new. I only wished I had this board when I first got into SW, would have saved me a bunch of money

Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Robyn

Hey man, It was a Rhetorical question but I definitely wasn't trying to be a smart ass with ya..hehe. I should have elaborated on my long term goals. I was going to do a 1000 or so g. tank but I just can't justify the costs for Salt when their's starving children in the richest country in the world. I'm a Lifetime NRA member and a bleeding heart....go figure....lol.
Anyway, I'm so psyched about our new house and new tank that I can't stand it man. I'll be posting pics asap. THe Tank will be a bow and the intial setup is gonna cost a fortune but will be easier in the long run.
BTW>....My friend wants to give me his Mature(Gorgeous) Red Volitan. Can I have the Juvy Volitan with the Mature XXL Red one?
Peace and Thanks

 

[snipe]

If it was me my agressive tank would be 1 dwarf lion and an angler fish! Thoughs two are awsome!

 

[itchy]

ummmm...not sure on the two together...you'll have to research that one!
Good luck and congrats on the house

 

[ariaanna]

uhm..... does anybody have any recommendations of a cleanup crew for a puffer?
or what kind of "reef associated fish" do you think i could keep with him?
i really like bangaii cardinals (which are probably too big) and six-line wrasses, which could be clean-up, but i don't know too much about them..... i have a friend i can ask, but he's not answering his phone. and he doesn't really keep any aggressive fish, so i'm not certain he can answer my question, anyways.

 

[ariaanna]

ok. it looks like i'm going to be buying a 38 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump. equipment will come gradually (i don't intend to actually set this tank up for at least 4 months b/c i'm moving then.) i'm also leaning towards the valentini puffer (roommate really likes that one the best.)
so, what kind of cleanup crew would you recommend that the puffer WON'T eat?

 

[exile415]

Originally Posted by ariaanna
hey all..... I've been keeping tropical freshwater for about 2 years and I'm interested in crossing over to marine. I looked to see if there were any threads along these lines, but none really seemed to say what i wanted to know, hence this thread. I'm working to get together some money for college, so I'd rather start out with a small tank, but I know that makes it more difficult to take care of the fish and it drastically decreases the number of fish I can have. I was thinking about getting maybe a 33 long and putting just ONE aggressive fish in it with maybe a cleanup crew. my top nominations are:
"Blue Spot Pufferfish" (Canthigaster epilamprus)
"Saddled Valentini Pufferfish" (Canthigaster valentini)
"Antennata Lionfish" (Pterois antennata)
"Fu Manchu Lionfish" (Dendrochirus biocellatus)
or Dwarf/Zebra Lionfish (Dendrochirus zebra)
and if you feel all those are too aggressive/difficult to take care of, I'm interested in bangaii cardinals, but would much rather have one large, aggressive fish than a small marine community.
I don't have the tank yet, so don't get upset and say there's no way any of those fish will fit in it. I'm asking advice BEFORE I put ANY money into the venture, so when I DO spend money, I'm spending it wisely. since it's summer now, I'm going to head to some yard sales in hopes of some newly graduated college students moving away and selling off their fish tanks, and I'll keep you posted if I find something worth buying. otherwise, I'd like to know what you recommend.
I like aggressive fish, I have three different types of freshwater puffers at present.
space and money are an issue, but if I find a great deal on a tank, I'll MAKE the space for it.
I'm expecting to need a cleanup crew of some type, but I don't know what I can get- I'm pretty sure the puffers would attack/eat any snails and hermit crabs I might have, and I'm not certain I'm ready to tackle a lionfish, so I would appreciate recommendations on cleanup.
I have several friends who have a LOT of experience with marine tanks, so they can help me with maintenance and the like. but they've only kept reef tanks and don't really have any experience with the more aggressive fish.
if you have any more suggestions for fish I should research, please tell me. I'd prefer to not buy anything over $30.
ps- sorry if this is rather incoherent, I haven't gone to sleep yet and it's nearly 7 a.m. here. I'll be checking in later on in the day to see what is said (if anything) and if there's anything that needs clarification, I'll take care of that then.
Where do you live ? If your looking for a tank I have 2 for sale. 55 Long that is being fixed and ill be putting another layer of cilicone on the sides.
55G W/ Stand - $100
I also have a Triangle 50G
Triangle 50G W/ STAND - Shooting for $200.

 

[ariaanna]

i'm in NC.....