So there's been a lot of talk

joerdie

joerdie

Member
i have been reading a ton lately about about de-nitrifiers, phosphate reactors, and calcium reactors. two things have bugged me. i am interested in building a de-nitrafier using the airline tubing mentioned in a few other threads. im also interested in trying the phosphate reactors (this was brought to my attention after seeing stevewest's tank) these two items seem easy enough to build and maintain but i cant help but to think about how last year at this time everyone was talking about DSB's and how they are the perfect way to fix every thing from high nitrates to the fact that my wife keeps cheeting on me..... then. one day people with dsb's started to have issues... im sure you see where this is going. are the products mentioned above just a fad? i really think some of these products could help my tank.
my second question stems from the fact that i thought i knew what calcium reactors did but now im not so shure. so what would be the purpose in buying one. will it keep my calcium/dkh/ph up? will ballance them? why does it do what it does?
thanks in advance joerdie
 
joerdie

joerdie

Member
bob i apreciate the response!! this is what i thought the calcium reactors did.
i think we are both in agreement about the fad issue... however about this plant life obsession... ahhh forget it.
i do wonder what else we will look back at in 5,10,20 years and say "WHAT where WE thinking!!!???
anyone else?
 
dburr

dburr

Active Member
i do wonder what else we will look back at in 5,10,20 years and say "WHAT where WE thinking!!!???

With my system all I had to do was add crushed oyster shells in my $5 filter box. calcium went from 250-300 to 400ppm.
:hilarious
 
birdy

birdy

Active Member
This is a good point, but you have to understand that this is an evolving hobby and things and ideas will constantly be changing. DSB's have been around for many years not just one, and there are many that have been set up for years without problems, but of course there are some that do. In this hobby you have to look at what makes sense to you. To me this is using things that nature uses (LR, sandbed, plants, currents) plus there are things that man develops that help out (skimmers, carbon, phosphate removers). It is not wise to jump on every band wagon that comes along. But you will get nowhere in this hobby clinging to the past methods, you just have to decide what you think is worthy of you money and go with it. I have found that the minute I plan a tank and set it up. I can think of 50 things I would like to do different the next time.
Good luck and part of the fun of this hobby is all the new gadgets!
 
rwhite

rwhite

Member
I think thats why Steve has been reluctant to share his ways of doing things. Probably doesnt want to be blamed for the process he's using dosent work for all tanks. I can appreciate that, as for myself, we're not changing anything. The size of his tank needs far outweigh the load we're carrying in a 55. Definitely food for thought, but I wouldnt go changing everything on a whim. Just a couple pennies.
 
krowleey

krowleey

Active Member
my DSB has been working great, i used dead dry pink somoan sand and put 80 lbs of LS from SWF, i seem to have tons of worms in it, i see them on side of the glass. Do you have to add more over time or will they reproduce on thier own? and i have zero trates which i think comes from my DSB and my fuge
 
cincyreefer

cincyreefer

Active Member
Interesting point you bring up joerdie. IMO, I don't think that a phosphate reactor could become "bad" for your tank, unless you are using a media that can leach the po4 back into your tank. When the media has been exhausted it just won't continue to remove po4. That is different from a DSB because they require a lot of maintance to be sure they won't crash, which wasn't known too much the past few years because nthey hadn't really been tested long term by a lot of people. Although I think that by next year we might have some new type of reactor or media that might be easier to use/works better, but that will happen all the time as the hobby continues to evolve.
 
nm reef

nm reef

Active Member
My gut feeling is the failure of DSB's is related to high bio-loads and lack of micro infauna(worms/pods/etc)...plus I believe that a DSB is a part of a filtration process and if it is depended on too heavily then it is more likely to have problems. To date I've had success with DSB's and continue to use them along with LR...refugium..skimmer...and by controlling or limiting the introduction of nitrates/phosphates and assorted metals. I may eventually go with a fluidized type filter and use rowaphos...but I've never had much of a problem with phosphates so that is not a critical addition at this point.
I also don't see the DSB issue as being a fad...and I don't view DSB's as something that has lost prominience...it has come under some recent critizism...but they are still widely used and can be very effective.
In regard to calcium reactors...they tend to be used more with systems that primarily keep large amounts of calcium demanding corals. I've been able to maintain sufficient levels of calcium and alkalinity via Seachem additives and in my situation a reactor isn't needed at this point...but I would probably consider one if my coral selection expands to the point that the demand on my calcium levels needed to extra boost.
...and a last bit of general info...according to one of the most highly regarded water chemistry experts in this hobby...the author of numerous articles realted to water chemistry as it relates to this hobby....he states that it is virtually impossible to produce increases in calcium from the addition of any calcerious based substrate...the statement that the use of crushed oyster shells in a filter box increases calcium levels seems to be a mis-conception. In order for the oyster shells to have any noticeable effect on calcium the product would need to be exposed to much lower PH levels than is normally found in a filter box( Now ...I'm not sure exactly what a filter box is)...but in any case the crushed oyster shells would need to be exposed to a very low PH level to have much if any positive effects. Which basically is what a calcium reactor does...at least thats how I understand calcium reactors to work.
 
joerdie

joerdie

Member
sorry it took me so long to reply. (dumb work) anyhoo. thankls for all the replies!!!
i think ill be buildong a phosphate reactor and am looking into building a de-nitrafyer. my trAtes are fairly low as it is but i think building these two objects will be a lot of fun!!! i dont think my tank needs any more help with calcium and i continue to dose kalk.
kip and nmreef thanks for the clerification on the dsb issue. as is with everything else in this hobby you really cant do anything half way:)
 
saltynewbie

saltynewbie

Member

Originally posted by Kip4130
worms are usually good about keeping their populations up... its the snails and pods that you have to work on from time to time
keeping little "pores" open in your sand bed for water (O2) to get into the lower layers is key for long sand bed efficiency
how do you keep the "pores" open kip?
 
jarre

jarre

Member
NM - I'll agree with you. From everything I've read and experienced the major issue with DSB's are the lack of micro infauna which is a major part of the DSB concept.
I can't help but wonder if we (most of us) don't spend enough time after the initial cycle establishing the sand bed properly. Patience is definately required and most of us want to see the corals and fish rather than micro organisms. So the DSB doesn't get seeded well enough from the start. I'm fully convinced that has been the major draw back to my existing tank. Of course, it was my first too!!
 
saltynewbie

saltynewbie

Member
my live sand isnt hard to keep populated with microorganisms simply because i dont have anything that eats them. i have tons of different types of animals and worms living in my sand bed, and i see more and more all the time.
 
gonfishin

gonfishin

Member
Do you see all that lives in the sand bed during the day or mostly at night? I don't see much but I have not done night viewing yet.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally posted by schneidts
What do you recommend, Bang?
I recommend a detrivore kit once a year for most sand beds or every other year for large sand beds. A commercial detrivore kit, a box of wild live sand, or a few pounds from a healthy sand bed will work.
The Premium live sand sold on this site is perfect IMO.
 
schneidts

schneidts

Active Member
Glad I just did that not to long ago *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
As far as this thread goes, I think a healthy dsb is great(along with a fuge and skimmer etc..). I don't plan on ditching mine any time soon. Steve Weast has a gorgeous setup, that is way over my head. I think I would rather see lots of pics of a setup like that, than have to maintain it or pay for it's upkeep.lol. For my needs, I just think a fluidized phosphate reactor is like pounding a nail with a dump truck.
 
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