Something in my sand bed?

bob on this

bob on this

Member
I have lost some fish again. This is maybe the 3rd time I have lost fish right after I do a small water change (10%) on my 55 gal tank.
I do a very light substaight vacumue, and I blow off the LR with a turkey baster.
The next day my fish are breathing hard, and one is dead. (a damsel of all things).
This is what happened to both clown's a couple months ago.
Could there be some kind of toxic substance in my sand?
I checked all water parms, and they all show good.
Temp 76.1 Deg F
Amn 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
S.G. 1.024
PH 8.4
Alk 2
 
iowafish

iowafish

Member
How deep is your sand bed and how long has the tank been up and running?
Also, can you describe how you're doing your water changes?
KH
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Vacuuming the substrate results in killing off your biofilter. Have you taken water readings following maintenance?
How are you mixing your salt water?
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
My sand bed is about 2 1/2 " to 3".
I mix my salt water in a dedicated 5 gal bucket, and let a small power head run for a couple days to a week.
I have a new fish in my QT tank, so I take 5 gals from my DT and replace 5 gals in my QT. (that's why my new salt water is only a couple day old)
I use a cleaning siphon to very gently siphon the very top of the sand bed, maybe a 1/4 deep. I only do a small part at a time.
I have a lot of saw tooth macoalgae growing in an attemp to rid the tank of hair algae (Seems to be working quite well), but this stuff collects a lot of "stuff", and when I blow it clean, it can make quite a snow storm.
Usually my corals, tube worm, and anemone like this, but last night, they all closed up.
My tank has been up and running for about 3 months. The tank was used, and some of the sand came from the people I got the tank from. The live rock came from another local guy, and had been in his tank for quite some time. He also gave me some "live sand". Not sure of the quality of these "live sands".
The tank seems quite happy. I have three types of coraline algae that is speading (mostly the purple) to every corner of the tank.
My shrimp and crabs seem very happy (the shrimp has molted three times in the last two months, last night accually).
I just can't seem to keep a fish alive to save my life.

Thanks for your help.
Bob
 
texasmetal

texasmetal

Active Member
Strange that it would effect your fish and not your shrimp.
Test your water (every aspect) before and after your water change and look for major fluctuations.
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
What are you thinking about? PH, Alk?
I always check for temp and S.G. before I add the water, and I add it somewhat slowly, adding it into the sump.
I did check my mixed salt water, and it has a much higher Alk (3.5) than my DT has (2).
The PH is a little differant also, (8) in the new water and (8.4) in the tank.
The freahly made salt water stays out in the green house during the mixing and experances a high temp variation (100+ Deg F) during the day, but I always do my water change in the AM when the water is the same as the tank (within a couple degrees).
This is only 10% of the DT capacity, could anything here make much differance?
Can a sand bed or live rock leach some toxic gas (H2S) or Methane into the water?
I only have one fish that is still alive at this point, ( and one new still in the QT) and I am about ready to tear the tank down, get new chushed coral, and start over.
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
Most of the sand came from the guy we got the tank from. The tank was a mess, completely covered in algae, and we accually found some dead fish when we drained it. The tank had a pair of mated clowns, and with the help of the local store, found a guy to take them.
This same guy (who took the clowns) sold me the live rock and still more sand. This sand was kept in a plastic tub, and I don't know how long.
We rinsed the tank (no cleaner) with fresh water. I also washed out the sand with fresh (oops) to get some of the sediment out. The water looked more like milk than water when I got it.
I figured I probably killed the live sand, but was not to worried about it, as the live rock was very, very nice.
Hope this helps.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
If it were me I would tear the tank down and start over. I would never consider using someone else's old sand bed. A few pounds to start up a new sand bed, yes. The old sand from the bottom where all of the animals have been disrupted and left to die in a plastic tub, no.
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
Ok, thanks Bang Guy
I will start the process this weekend. Do you think the substraight is giving off some type of toxic compounds?
What do you think about the live sand here on SWF.com?
Would a layer of CC with sand on the top give me the "best of both worlds"?
Thanks for the help.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by Bob On This
http:///forum/post/2707269
Ok, thanks Bang Guy
I will start the process this weekend. Do you think the substraight is giving off some type of toxic compounds?
What do you think about the live sand here on SWF.com?
Would a layer of CC with sand on the top give me the "best of both worlds"?
Thanks for the help.

I think there's an abundance of organic material in the sand bed. I think bacteria is consuming it and consuming large amounts of Oxygen to process the organics. This will make it difficult for animals with a high metabolism like fish. Sedentary fish may do OK. This process would probably stop in a couple more months but the bed could leach phosphates for a long time, even years. This could make it difficult to grow corals and could also promote cyano or algae at the surface of the sand.
The live sand in this site is top of the line. I'd suggest adding dead sand and recycling your tank. Once the cycle is complete again add a box of live sand from here. The cycle will probably be very quick and you may not even see an ammonia spike.
CC on top of a sand bed will make the sand bed much less effective.
 
M

markeo99

Guest
you said you were mixing it in a garden shed any chemicals in this shed bug spray or fertilizers
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2707278
I think there's an abundance of organic material in the sand bed. I think bacteria is consuming it and consuming large amounts of Oxygen to process the organics. This will make it difficult for animals with a high metabolism like fish. Sedentary fish may do OK. This process would probably stop in a couple more months but the bed could leach phosphates for a long time, even years. This could make it difficult to grow corals and could also promote cyano or algae at the surface of the sand.
The live sand in this site is top of the line. I'd suggest adding dead sand and recycling your tank. Once the cycle is complete again add a box of live sand from here. The cycle will probably be very quick and you may not even see an ammonia spike.
CC on top of a sand bed will make the sand bed much less effective.
I agree with bang guy... crushed coral is widely discussed as a very ineffective means of substrate in this hobby. I would steer clear of it.
I bought a used 14g for my daughter and it had crushed coral in it. When I bought it and tore it down at the previous owners house, i siphoned about 70% of the water out. Then second I picked up the rock and took it out, the water became green with crap. When I took it home, I shook up the crushed coral and the water got so murky that i couldn't see anything from the side of the tank. I ended up taking all of it out and replacing it with live sand. It was the best decision I've made for that tank. Crushed coral is a magnet for garbage of all kinds, and does a better job of becoming a cesspool than serving as a biological means of filtration for your tank.
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
Thanks guys.
I do mix the salt water up in a small green house attached to the house, but there are no garden supplies stored there. It does get hot in the New Mexico Sun

I think we have made a decision to buy a new tank and some sand (dead) from the local shop, set it up next to the old, add few chunks of live rock from the old tank and let it cycle.
Will then add live sand form SWF and move all the rock and fish over.
This will get rid of all the "free" stuff we got and let us start over.
The real trick will be getting the new tank and stand into the spot we want.
It is on hardwood floors, so I think if we set it up with the felt pads under it, we should be able to slide it into place.
How deep should I make the sand?
I have read that DSB's are not recommended for the beginner, and that they can some how go bad?
Should I stay with a 2" for now?
Thanks
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
2" is good, but be sure to put your rock in first then add the sand around it. The less the sand underneath your live rock, the better. You want your live rock to be against the bottom glass. This way, you can be almost guaranteed it will not move. if you had it on sand, the rock could shift over time and collapse... possibly leading to cracking one of the sides of your tank.
 
bob on this

bob on this

Member
Thanks everyone.
We drove down to Albuquerque and picked up a new 75 Gal tanks, stand and 80 lbs of live sand.
I will set it up this weekend, let the water age a few days, add some live rock and the sand.
I'm hoping this tank will cycle in week or two.
Thanks for your help.
 
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