Squid ~Pump Question

coryherb

Member
Thanks :)
I am looking at getting a 180gallon tank. So far I have decided on using a precision Marine bullet 2 with a mag 18 pump. I am going to use two Mag 9.5 return pumps. I think am going to use 2 3/4 inch seasprays with those pumps. I also think I am going to go with 4 1200 powerheads of some sort.
Here are my questions.
1. does the above sound okay to you or is it too much? Any advice is welcome.
2. What size sump would you suggest..i plan on splitting into three parts like i have seen on several diagrams you have posted. Left or right being a fuge middle being return on the other side being overflow. Also how would you split up the demensions. I plan on the fuge being used for coral feeding and a DSB.
3. I am soo lost on lighting. What can you suggest for a 180 tank. I know I want to go with a combination of MH and VHO with some actinic. How do most people do lighting..do they manually turn stuff on and off? I guess I just want you to lay it on the line what I need and the type of canopy I need to make sure I get so it works. How far off the water should it be etc. I am looking for a mostly coral tank with some fish.
4. I saw a thread where you suggested getting a tank with predrilled holes.
"Holes drilled? How many? Yep, Looking for 5 total...(plus the overflows)4 of them 1 3/4" for 1" bulkheads (C/L outlets) and one 2 3/8" for 1 1/2" C/L inlet...3 in the back and 1 on each end)
Corner overflows (2) what size?standard you said squidd? Yep One each corner 1 3/4" hole for 1" drain no return from overflow "
That is good info..what would you suggest for the setup I am planning? and what does C/L stand for..i understand the idea but not the abbreviation.
I am getting closer and closer to starting to plop down cash for everything..and as I do I get more and more scared that I have no idea what I am doing. I know it will help once I finally have the stuff in my house but want to at least get the right stuff to my house. There doesn't seem to be a lot of saltwater interest here in reno and only 1 LFS that I could find in the yellow pages that carried saltwater. I will talk to them in the next few days to see what they have to offer as far as tanks and prices etc. I had freshwater tanks for most my life and the store I used to go to for that has closed. They didn't carry much saltwater stuff anyway.
thanks very much for any help.
 

squidd

Active Member
Hey...
I'd be happy to run through this with you, but I have meetings all night tonight (and boy, are "they" important...:rolleyes: ) so I won't be able to get too far today...
Couple questions though, as I read through this...
1. Sea "sprays" or Sea Swirls...??
1.b What is your thoughts on using two return pumps rather than one large (er) one..?
2. Sump//Fuge we can size out once we figure"Goal" flow numbers...
3.180...6' long....3X 250 MH(HQI) or 2X 400 if you have Euro bracing...and 2X (or 4X) 110 VHO actinic (K ratings and "color" need to be explored)
Set on "timers", more consistant than manual
4.C/L is "Closed Loop" for supplemental circulation...(rather than powerheads)
later...
 

coryherb

Member
1. Seaswirls :)
2. I have no preference on the return pump being one or two. I was thinking that way if I have a pump go down I still have some flow till it is fixed.
3. So just the two types of lights..the actinic and the MH. The MH have to stretch across the whole length of the tank and the actinic may or may not? That doesn't seem as dificult as I thought..although still need advice on the hood. How particular do i have to be where I buy my tank and cabinet as to what I get for a hood. Some of the lighting diagrams I have seen for tanks really made it seem complicated.
talk to you when you get back..
thanks
 

coryherb

Member
as I think about it maybe it would be better to go to using a Mag 18 as the return pump going into a SCWD. Would be quite a bit cheaper. Then 4 to 6 maxijet 1200 powerheads. HELP
:)
 

squidd

Active Member
OK, quick calcs... 2x Mag 9.5 and 4 Maxi Jet 1200s= 2358 or 13x turnover..kinda low...
Mag 18 on a SCWD and 6 Maxijet 1200s=2340 or 13x, but you would be "killing" the Mag with the SCWD (restriction)
Both kind of LOW flow and neither an optimal choice..
Here's a couple "questions" to concider where you want to go with this...some you've partially answered...
Sure I can help you size it out...I have a "system" for this...
We divide your system into three main components or "phases"...Return pump flow, Closed Loop flow and Sump/fuge sizing...
I'll give you options and you choose the appropriate pieces to combine and complement the whole...Based on what YOU want the end result to be...
As we get to each "phase" you will need to know what your "Goals" are, and then we'll pick and option out the components to reach these goals...
As many of the components for each phase are interdependant on each other for "balance" we will refer back to the "Big Picture" (combined Goals) to be sure they complement each other...
1. What is the "Goal flow"or desired "turn over" for your tank ...I suggest at least 20X up to 30X if you will be keeping SPS...What type of "inhabitants" are you planning on keeping..?
Look up >some< thread>s< to see what others are running...
2. What is the "Goal" for supplemental flow from the cloosed loop...Surge or Wave action (side to side) Full linear flow for a "circular" pattern, or Chaotic, Random,Mixing flow...? I suggest the chaotic random "pattern" ... With either a 4 or 8 way flow "switching" device...
3. What is the "Goal" for the Fuge (if your going to build one)...Malnutrient removal through the export of Macros (Harvesting) ..MN removal through Xenia or other softie...Pod/larvae production for natural feeding of corals, DSB with full compliment of Micro flora and Fauna for denitrification...a cryptic zone with Live Rock for pods and denitrification..?
Some of these can be combined to a point , but a "Goal" needs to be set due to differing sizing, lighting and flow needs...
While we're down there...Do you want to build in a propagation tank to the system..?
Let's start with this..
What are you going to use the tank for..Reef, FO or FOWLR...?
What Kind of inhabitants are you planing on putting in...?
 

squidd

Active Member
OK...so we're looking at a minimal 20x turn over (more would be better) so at least 3600 gph more toward 4500 gph...(25x)
That's a bunch of water to move and you won't be able to get it "all" from the sump return...more like 1000-1200 from/to sump...due to overflow limitations...
So we need to come up with another...2500 to 3500 gph "some where"... Either Closed loop or an in tank flow device, like powerheads (that's like 10 or 11 MaxiJet 1200s :eek: ) or Tunzee Turbelle Streams (high flow)
If you don't mind the PH look in the tank the Tunzee Turbelle Stream 6000 with electronic speed controller is a "plug and play" form of alternating and variable flow controll...
A "pair" of them will give you 1320-3700 gph..right where you want to be...
Or we go deeper into a Closed Loop with OceansMotions 4 or 8 way flow "directors" and complex multi-outlet plumbing with a high flow external pump...
Then we build the sumpfugium..:joy:
 

coryherb

Member
do you think I could call you or you call me? I could hash this out really fast with you. I am actually talking to the fish store friday ..they have the tank in but will drill it etc if i need. The cabinet should be on way. So kinda reaching the point of I need to decide what I am going to do. If it is okay email me at coryherb@charter.net. Be happy to put it on my dime.
thanks
cory
PS thanks for the alternative FLOW ideas..i was trying to figure out how to get it up to 30 actually.
 

coryherb

Member
those ocean motions look cool. I don't get how they work though. Do the return pumps go to them? do you hook up revolutions to the output of the 4ways?
edit: ahh ..i see..an external pump. What is PH look?
 

squidd

Active Member
Just saw this today...
There really is "quite a bit" to work out and think about before you purchase equipment, if you want to get it right "the first time"....:thinking:
Maybe you could just put a down payment on the tank and have them "hold it" for drilling...till we can work it out...???
I'm teaching class tonight so I'll be tough to get ahold of...
Maybe over the weekend, we can do it on the board and others can learn as well...:)
***************************
"PH Look" means something (pump) in the tank, as opposed to a Closed Loop where everything but the plumbing outlets are external...
 

coryherb

Member
sounds good..I have some time. Talked to dark4p about rock. He has a very fair deal and said he would do an initial curing of the rock for me and that will take a few weeks. And still waiting for the cabinet anyway. Also am talking to them about the hood..may get that taller for MH lighting.
 

coryherb

Member
Here is what I think I am going to do with my sump. Return will be coming down to a side..lets call it the left side. That side will also have the skimmer. I will have a t with a valve sending a percentage to the very right side of the sump that is going to be the fuge. Going with a 60 (48inches long) gallon sump so lets say I start my baffels on the skimmer side..under over under..at 19 inches so that the middle chamber starts at 20 inches. The middle(return) chamber will be 15 inches long and the rest will be fuge. I am not sure how to do the overflow from the fuge to the return chamber. Normal baffel? What if I need to put a fish in it? HMM Well that is what I am leaning toward.
 

squidd

Active Member

Originally posted by CoryHerb
don't forget about this thread squidd!!
talking to you about a sump next ..*waiting in line*

:)

Saw your other thread on the Tunzees and was waiting for you to "decide" on C/L or PH for supplemental because that will have "some" affect on sump/fuge design...
As many of the components for each phase are interdependant on each other for "balance" we will refer back to the "Big Picture" (combined Goals) to be sure they complement each other...

:yes:
 

squidd

Active Member

Originally posted by CoryHerb
Here is what I think I am going to do with my sump. Return will be coming down to a side..lets call it the left side. That side will also have the skimmer. I will have a t with a valve sending a percentage to the very right side of the sump that is going to be the fuge. Going with a 60 (48inches long) gallon sump so lets say I start my baffels on the skimmer side..under over under..at 19 inches so that the middle chamber starts at 20 inches. The middle(return) chamber will be 15 inches long and the rest will be fuge. I am not sure how to do the overflow from the fuge to the return chamber. Normal baffel? What if I need to put a fish in it? HMM Well that is what I am leaning toward.

You want to draw a picture ...or should I...??
 

coryherb

Member
umm..i don't think you want to see my artistic talent..but essentially it looks like the one you put up for leona. I would copy and paste it here..but just tried and I guess it isn't that easy.
 

coryherb

Member
To be honest I don't know what to do about flow. Looks like cost will be about the same either way. Lot more labor to running a OM 4way. Slightly cheaper to go with the OM 4 way but not a lot. I would have to have a bulkhead put in for the OM. A little cleaner look going with the revolutions off the 4 way. Would I have to drill holes across the top for it.. I am thinking it wouldn't be very easy to go over the lip of a large acrylic tank. I guess those tunzes are the size of a softball. That is big!! I also heard they don't have the greatest bracket system for them. SO weighing pros and cons of each. Suggestions gladly taken.
 

squidd

Active Member
Suggestions gladly taken
Sorry..."Suggestions" have been Gladly given...
The "Descisions" are ALL up to you...:D
You pretty much have a handle on the pros and con's of each system (more work/less money, more money/takes up space, etc...)
However...Now that I know it's an Acrylic tank...
YOU can do the drilling (piece of cake) and the plumbing really isn't that difficult, the looks will be much cleaner, and there are more flow options and outlets with the 4 -Way and a couple of "Revs"
If you go that route I'd "suggest" drilling all the outlets and inlets in the tank "wall" and not go over the top...
But really..It's "Your Tank...Your Choice"...
 

coryherb

Member
that is the advice I need!! hehe. Just a push. Okay so will drill the holes myself. But I need help with specifics. I obviously have room from the top of tank to the waterline..but generally how much on a 180 tank. What I am thinking I am going to do is build the OM 4way partially to see where it will have to cross the acrylic and mark and drill..but not sure how deep. Advice? Also the bulkhead size? I don't know much about bulkheads but will learn here in a sec with a search. Do you have a pump for it you would suggest.
You said a couple revs. Should I not go with 4 revolutions on off each outlet?
 

squidd

Active Member
Actually, the "outlets" on the closed loop should be "under" the water surface" to prevent excess "bubbles" from being formed...
By directing one (or more) toward the water surface, you will promote gaseous exchange and the overflow will do the surface skimming for you...
With the "options" on 4 -Ways of flow patterning I'm not compleatly sold on the need to "divide" that up 4 more ways with each "Rev"....4x4=16 "random" directions...
I think with too much "Caotic" flow you loose too much "control" over flow "patterning" and actually loose "Turnover" by just having water "vibrate" in place and not actually "going" some where...
Remember, beside coral flow "needs" you also need to move the water to keep deitrus suspended AND get it to your flitration/fuge for "export"...
I would suggest going to the OM site and look at "set-ups" there to see how others are doing it..
And once your all comfortable with the process..we can pick a flow "Goal" and pumps and size bulkheads etc...
 
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