Squid ~Pump Question
- Thread starter coryherb
- Start date
squidd
Active Member
None of my "suggestions" are absolutes or written in stone...more like the 1" per 5 gallon fish "rule" ot the 5 "watt/gallon" rule...
But if I said 40 would make it "someone" out ther would say they could only do 20 ...and pretty soon your "OUT" of the ball park and just wasting your time and space...
If you can "push and squeeze" do it to the "high" side ...if it just ain't gonna happen, you have to work with the "reality" of what you can fit...
But if I said 40 would make it "someone" out ther would say they could only do 20 ...and pretty soon your "OUT" of the ball park and just wasting your time and space...
If you can "push and squeeze" do it to the "high" side ...if it just ain't gonna happen, you have to work with the "reality" of what you can fit...
coryherb
Member
i saw Leona decided on an ASM skimmer. Those come with a pump it appears. That makes it about half the price of the Precision Marine Bullet 2 and the mag 18 I was going to get. Is there any reason to spend the extra money on the PMB2? I could even get the one rated for 250 gallons and the sedra pumps are pretty good right?
Mag 18 $110
PMB2 $369
Total $479
or ASM G3 $279.
:notsure:
Mag 18 $110
PMB2 $369
Total $479
or ASM G3 $279.
:notsure:
squidd
Active Member
No "standard" or "minimun"...just enough for the "footprint"...
As the skimmer is not a perfect "cube" it won"t block excess flow so there's no need to waste "usable" space around it...
However you do want to build in a "flow through" design to keep water moving and not re-skim it over and over...
You also want to have enough volume to disapate bubbles from overflow drain chamber before/as it goes into the skimmer intake...
And to slow the flow from output before it hit's the baffles to the return chamber..
As the skimmer is not a perfect "cube" it won"t block excess flow so there's no need to waste "usable" space around it...
However you do want to build in a "flow through" design to keep water moving and not re-skim it over and over...
You also want to have enough volume to disapate bubbles from overflow drain chamber before/as it goes into the skimmer intake...
And to slow the flow from output before it hit's the baffles to the return chamber..
coryherb
Member
squidd!!
back..
After reading your thread with leona I decided having one corner flow didn't seem like enough surface skimming so i called to have them add a second. I wanted to keep the right corner free of objects so put it in the middle. I am guessing that will up my overflow to 2600 with two 1 1/2" drains. Sooo
I am thinking of either using both the returns supplied with the overflows or using one and putting an ott to the right corner. either way what is your suggestion on pumps ..again.
Should I buy one big pump with a Y or buy a second mag18 and have two returns. Is either one better than the other?
also..with the built in returns..what is the mechanism for making sure you don't drain the tank into the sump?
back..
After reading your thread with leona I decided having one corner flow didn't seem like enough surface skimming so i called to have them add a second. I wanted to keep the right corner free of objects so put it in the middle. I am guessing that will up my overflow to 2600 with two 1 1/2" drains. Sooo
I am thinking of either using both the returns supplied with the overflows or using one and putting an ott to the right corner. either way what is your suggestion on pumps ..again.
Should I buy one big pump with a Y or buy a second mag18 and have two returns. Is either one better than the other?
also..with the built in returns..what is the mechanism for making sure you don't drain the tank into the sump?
squidd
Active Member
Need to look at the "Big Picture...
As many of the components for each phase are interdependant on each other for "balance" we will refer back to the "Big Picture" (combined Goals) to be sure they complement each other...
How big of a sump did you decide to go with...How big a fuge ??
How much flow "can" you/ "should" you put through each...??
As many of the components for each phase are interdependant on each other for "balance" we will refer back to the "Big Picture" (combined Goals) to be sure they complement each other...
How big of a sump did you decide to go with...How big a fuge ??
How much flow "can" you/ "should" you put through each...??
coryherb
Member
Unless I absolutely can not get it in I am going with a 75 gallon tank at 48 inches long. I admit I still don't know exactly the split I am going to do as still waiting for that section in leona's thread 
. But..I think I am going to go with 16 inches overflow/sump side (includes baffles), 15 inches return/center chamber and the rest in a fuge. Only way that would change is if you recommend different.
On another note I got my RO/DI going tonight. It takes forever to get started and seems to have a lot more coming out of the discharge than out the out line..is that normal?
It is a 100gpd from aqua safe.
. But..I think I am going to go with 16 inches overflow/sump side (includes baffles), 15 inches return/center chamber and the rest in a fuge. Only way that would change is if you recommend different. On another note I got my RO/DI going tonight. It takes forever to get started and seems to have a lot more coming out of the discharge than out the out line..is that normal?
It is a 100gpd from aqua safe.
squidd
Active Member
Yep, that's normal...about 4to 1 or 5 to 1 ratio of waste to good...
Here..it was on page 5 (and 6.... )
**************************************************
Probably should do some "math"...first...huh...?
Backwash room first...then the fuge..then the skimmer chamber..then the return chamber...then the overflow driain chamber...
55Gallon soon to be S/F is 48"x13"x20"=12480/231=54.04
We can't "use" all that, because you want to leave some room for "backwash" in a power out situation...so lets see 3"-4" will leave us..
4"x48x13=2496/231=10 gallons for "backwash" room...
Everybody OK with that...?? (hint: check back on page 4)
So that leaves us 44-45 gallons to "play" with...
I'm going to talk in "percentages" here...
First to explain what's "Ideal" and why...for those that are following along and may have a different sized tank...
Then we'll size it in to "reality" (what we have to work with) because not everybody can put the "Ultimate" S/F in their basement to get the room they need...although the more ambitious of you out there might...
I generally "recomend" 50% of Main Tank volume for Fuge on tanks under 100 gallons...Then 30-35% up to 180 gallon MTs...and then 25% for larger...
Obviously we cant use the full 45 gallons for the Fuge and have any thing for the sump, so we'll have to compromise a "little" ...
Leona is "close to" the 100 gallon mark so let's see what the 30-35% MT gives us...
90x.3=27 and 90x.35=31.5 So we're looking for "around" 30 gallons for the Fuge...
So..Tonight's Math quiz is...
How big will a 30 gallon fuge be in Leonas 55 gallon tank if we leave 4" backwash room in it ...??
AND How much "room" does that leave for Skimmer footprint and return pump area...??
Are we going to have to "squeeze" the fuge a bit...??
Can we "grab" an inch from the backwash room and still be "safe" ...??
Don't forget we need to add "baffles" as well...
Leona...we'll need the footprint of your skimmer for the "next" step...was that going to be a Euro Reef ES5-3..??
Here..it was on page 5 (and 6....
)**************************************************
Probably should do some "math"...first...huh...?
Backwash room first...then the fuge..then the skimmer chamber..then the return chamber...then the overflow driain chamber...
55Gallon soon to be S/F is 48"x13"x20"=12480/231=54.04
We can't "use" all that, because you want to leave some room for "backwash" in a power out situation...so lets see 3"-4" will leave us..
4"x48x13=2496/231=10 gallons for "backwash" room...
Everybody OK with that...?? (hint: check back on page 4)
So that leaves us 44-45 gallons to "play" with...
I'm going to talk in "percentages" here...
First to explain what's "Ideal" and why...for those that are following along and may have a different sized tank...
Then we'll size it in to "reality" (what we have to work with) because not everybody can put the "Ultimate" S/F in their basement to get the room they need...although the more ambitious of you out there might...
I generally "recomend" 50% of Main Tank volume for Fuge on tanks under 100 gallons...Then 30-35% up to 180 gallon MTs...and then 25% for larger...
Obviously we cant use the full 45 gallons for the Fuge and have any thing for the sump, so we'll have to compromise a "little" ...
Leona is "close to" the 100 gallon mark so let's see what the 30-35% MT gives us...
90x.3=27 and 90x.35=31.5 So we're looking for "around" 30 gallons for the Fuge...
So..Tonight's Math quiz is...
How big will a 30 gallon fuge be in Leonas 55 gallon tank if we leave 4" backwash room in it ...??
AND How much "room" does that leave for Skimmer footprint and return pump area...??
Are we going to have to "squeeze" the fuge a bit...??
Can we "grab" an inch from the backwash room and still be "safe" ...??
Don't forget we need to add "baffles" as well...
Leona...we'll need the footprint of your skimmer for the "next" step...was that going to be a Euro Reef ES5-3..??
coryherb
Member
I figure I need 20 gallons overflow room. 1 inch of a 180 gallon tank is 18.7 gallons. This is 5.4 inches of the total sump. I know to use a siphon hole in a ott return..not sure how it works with a built in return. Or maybe I shouldn't use the built in returns? Was thinking of using one ott on the right side and one of the other built in returns.
I can't get to the optimal fuge size 180x.35 so just planned on leaving what I could for it.
the footprint of the skimmer is 10x6.25.
and i was the one that answered your math quiz the first time around..didn't help me much over here though since I won't even get close to the optimal 63 gallons for the fuge. Which would be 55 inches(hypothetically) of the tank (considering 5.4 inches for overflow room).
:thinking: :notsure:
I can't get to the optimal fuge size 180x.35 so just planned on leaving what I could for it.
the footprint of the skimmer is 10x6.25.
and i was the one that answered your math quiz the first time around..didn't help me much over here though since I won't even get close to the optimal 63 gallons for the fuge. Which would be 55 inches(hypothetically) of the tank (considering 5.4 inches for overflow room).
:thinking: :notsure:
squidd
Active Member
Well that's why it's a "Goal"... Something to shoot for...
But it dose help in giving a "mental image" of the sizing "desired" and discourages "slapping" a 10 in there and calling it good..
Just make it as big a you can leaving room for backwash and enough room for the skimmer and pump...
I just looked at Leonas thread... We did drop the the ball (to switch to tank design) "right" where you are now for "dividing" the fuge...
We should be able to get back into that now....and continue the "Math" quiz..
Hang in there buddy...
But it dose help in giving a "mental image" of the sizing "desired" and discourages "slapping" a 10 in there and calling it good..
Just make it as big a you can leaving room for backwash and enough room for the skimmer and pump...
I just looked at Leonas thread... We did drop the the ball (to switch to tank design) "right" where you are now for "dividing" the fuge...
We should be able to get back into that now....and continue the "Math" quiz..
Hang in there buddy...
coryherb
Member
just to put my thoughts down. I am leaning toward putting 3/4" pvc piping(maybe acrylic..still pursuing that option) under my rock structure. Just a simple box about 3 inches tall and maybe a foot wide or so across the bottom of my tank. Right this second I am leaning on a 1/2 inch sand bed for looks but found suppliers of marine board here in town.
The overflows: One in left corner, one in middle, built in and believe you said 1 1/4 inch drains will give 1300 each so 2600 going to the sump.
The returns: One or two pumps totaling around 2300 being split into 4 returns and all blowing at different angles under the rock from the back.
Power head/CL: about 4000gph going to 4 bulkheads with an OM MAG4.
Alternating 2 at a time blowing over the rock from the top.
Lighting: retrofit 3MH 250w and 4 actinic to put in my hood. Specifics still being decided. will have small fans blowing over the water from the back.
sump/fuge: 75 gallon dimensions to be decided.
Skimmer: went back to the Precision Marine bullet 2 with a mag 18 pump, my thinking is that if no DSB want a lot of skimming
RO/DI : already bought and installed an aquasafe 100 gallon per day
Heating: already bought 3 250 and a 100 watt ebo jager heaters. Small one for the quarantine, two for the display and one for the saltwater storage.
2 Small powerheads and air pump: for mixing and quartine use.
180 gallon tank is on the way..nother couple of weeks. 5 Bulkheads predrilled for C/L and the built in returns
20 gallon quarantine tank and 75 gallon tank I will buy locally probably from pet smart.
Salt..no clue but will probably buy at pet smart too. Am staying away from oceanic only because seems better safe than sorry based on lots of complaints, wether accurate or not.
Test kits: all bought including a tds and refractometer
LR: 200 pounds bought from a guy that posted here. Said he would hold till I am ready..I have the rubber tubs so think I will tell him I am ready.
comments?
The overflows: One in left corner, one in middle, built in and believe you said 1 1/4 inch drains will give 1300 each so 2600 going to the sump.
The returns: One or two pumps totaling around 2300 being split into 4 returns and all blowing at different angles under the rock from the back.
Power head/CL: about 4000gph going to 4 bulkheads with an OM MAG4.
Alternating 2 at a time blowing over the rock from the top.
Lighting: retrofit 3MH 250w and 4 actinic to put in my hood. Specifics still being decided. will have small fans blowing over the water from the back.
sump/fuge: 75 gallon dimensions to be decided.
Skimmer: went back to the Precision Marine bullet 2 with a mag 18 pump, my thinking is that if no DSB want a lot of skimming
RO/DI : already bought and installed an aquasafe 100 gallon per day
Heating: already bought 3 250 and a 100 watt ebo jager heaters. Small one for the quarantine, two for the display and one for the saltwater storage.
2 Small powerheads and air pump: for mixing and quartine use.
180 gallon tank is on the way..nother couple of weeks. 5 Bulkheads predrilled for C/L and the built in returns
20 gallon quarantine tank and 75 gallon tank I will buy locally probably from pet smart.
Salt..no clue but will probably buy at pet smart too. Am staying away from oceanic only because seems better safe than sorry based on lots of complaints, wether accurate or not.
Test kits: all bought including a tds and refractometer
LR: 200 pounds bought from a guy that posted here. Said he would hold till I am ready..I have the rubber tubs so think I will tell him I am ready.
comments?
squidd
Active Member
comments?
WOW... That's a lot of stuff to buy...You must be Rich...or "WERE"...
1 1/4" will flow 1300...but 1 1/4" bulkheads are a little harder to come by...
If you can't find them get 1 1/2" (Bigger is Better ) You don't have to "use" all available flow, but better than being short...
Most everything else looks well thought out...
WOW... That's a lot of stuff to buy...You must be Rich...or "WERE"...1 1/4" will flow 1300...but 1 1/4" bulkheads are a little harder to come by...
If you can't find them get 1 1/2" (Bigger is Better ) You don't have to "use" all available flow, but better than being short...
Most everything else looks well thought out...
coryherb
Member
Actually..I put aside 5 grand for the project. We just filed taxes though and are getting a substantial refund. (something to fix for next year..I would rather hold my money than the govt) SOO made it easier to spend the money without my wife killing me. So not rich just saved up for this and a timely cash flow.
coryherb
Member
squidd,
I am going to lay down my rock on a structure a few inches above the bottom. Then I will put in some sand in front of the rock. The question is if I run my returns (two mag 18's) split into two nozzles each down behind the rock to spray under the rock foreward will I have sand kick up problems. I will go with a slightly bigger grain sand due to the flow I plan on having. There shouldn't be much sand under the rocks(and therefore not much deitris). Should I leave the returns up toward top and just pointed down behind the rock letting it push forward after hitting the bottom?
I know I am still waiting for your explanation to Leona on sump..but is 2400 flow into the sump too much for a 75 gallon? Thinking I may need to bump up the overflow and return chambers quite a bit from what I planned on, but is it just too much?
I am going to lay down my rock on a structure a few inches above the bottom. Then I will put in some sand in front of the rock. The question is if I run my returns (two mag 18's) split into two nozzles each down behind the rock to spray under the rock foreward will I have sand kick up problems. I will go with a slightly bigger grain sand due to the flow I plan on having. There shouldn't be much sand under the rocks(and therefore not much deitris). Should I leave the returns up toward top and just pointed down behind the rock letting it push forward after hitting the bottom?
I know I am still waiting for your explanation to Leona on sump..but is 2400 flow into the sump too much for a 75 gallon? Thinking I may need to bump up the overflow and return chambers quite a bit from what I planned on, but is it just too much?