Squid ~Pump Question

squidd

squidd

Active Member
I'm thinking the 2400 will be a problem in your sump/fuge...
Let's just "say" you divide out 45 gallons or so for a 40 gallon "fuge"...(it won't be full "to the top" )...
Then you have 30 gallon or so to "play" with...But you still have to "reserve" 10 gallons or so for backwash protection...
Now your down to 20 "usable gallons" to put 2400 gph through ..
That's what....??.....120 X Turnover....:scared: through your return pump chamber...
I'm thinking thats a "little" (lot) fast, I don't care WHAT kind of baffles you put in there...:nope:
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
Somewhere between 1.5X to 2X "Skimmer pump rate" is a good place to start...:thinking:
"max turnover ratio"...??
50X is good...60 X is "do able"...70 X will be pushing it (actually you'll be pushing "bubbles" through the sump to pump and back to tank...)
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
crud...going to run the numbers on a 60x18x20 = 90 gallon tank.
that will leave me less than a foot on the ends but if I run the ballasts to the garage (other side of wall) I should have plenty of room. Also going to put a board on the back wall to mount stuff to as needed (ie..the CL pump) Balasts in the garage will also keep heat away from tank.
okay messing around with numbers.
thanks
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
Basicly if you want to run 2400 gph through the "Sump" protion ...you'll need 40 + gallons...just to "settle it out"...
Which is not "unheard of"...I helped some guys build 100-120 S/Fs for tanks about your size...
"Tip of the Day"..."Wider/Shallower" chambers will handle flow more effeciently than "Tall/Narrow"....
Think of the wide slow flow of a river getting "wedged" into a narrow "gorge"... Turns to "bubbling rapids"....Then coming out the other end and getting "wide" again...:thinking:
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
/nod .. I have nowhere to run a bigger tank..so whatever I do has to fit under it. I considered the garage but just isn't a good solution. It has to be narrower than the stand so 18 inches is about right. i ordered a 34 inch stand so have some room height wise but thinking I don't want to get deeper than 20..so that leaves me with messing with the length. Will figure out what 40 gallons will leave me with for fuge. when you say 40 is that including both the return chamber and the overflow..or just the overflow. I am guessing just the overflow chamber.
I think I will just run the numbers for a 90, and start lowering the return pump gph till I get to something reasonable. Heading home from work will do it when get there :)
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member

Originally posted by Squidd
OK...so we're looking at a minimal 20x turn over (more would be better) so at least 3600 gph more toward 4500 gph...(25x)
That's a bunch of water to move and you won't be able to get it "all" from the sump return...more like 1000-1200 from/to sump...
So we need to come up with another...2500 to 3500 gph "some where"... Either Closed loop or an in tank flow device...
Remember this from page one...??
Remind me ...What's the "Goal Flow" for this tank..??
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
about 30x was the goal
so was thinking if i got closer to 2000 from the overflows/returns and went with a 4700 dolphin in a closed loop which is about 4000 at 4 feet of head pressure we are at 6000 gph or 33x. I am pretty sure I read if no dsb you want more flow. could definitely be wrong.
what do you think?
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
okay with a 90 gallon sump. I need 5 inches about for a 20 gallon Overflow. If I go with a 30 inches for the overflow chamber that would be 36 gallons and with 2000 gph in the return pumps I would get a 55x turnover in the sump. Then If I go with the smallest chamber I can for the return pump/s..say 10 inches, that leaves me with 20 inches for the fuge. That would make the fuge 25+(considering about a 16 inch depth) gallons. Not a terrible fuge size.
If I am running a mag 18 with the skimmer in the sump at about 1800 gph..that would be just over 1x flow too for the skimming. So should be okay there too.
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
2 mag 12's might be better. at 6 feet of headpressure they are just under 1000 gph.
A mag 24 could work but not sure how to calculate head pressure if splitting the line.
2 mag 12's would be easier to plumb i think.
/sigh am i making this more complicated than it has to be?
I need you to just tell me what to do. That also lets me blame you if something goes wrong:yes:
hehe..j/k about the blaming you part..not the tell me what to do part
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
/sigh am i making this more complicated than it has to be?
:yes:
I need you to just tell me what to do. That also lets me blame you if something goes wrong
:nope:
hehe..j/k about the blaming you part..not the tell me what to do part
:D
You Just gotta "think" it through....Very rarely willl you get it on the first try...
Even on Leonas thread I've (she) changed the tank size twice..the fuge size four times...three designs on C/L and overflow(s)...and I've adjusted the S/F layout once already...and we're far from done yet.. :nervous:
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
i am trying to figure out what head pressure I am looking at.
If I use the built in returns I am estimating 5 vert feet a couple horizontal feet, two 90s for the over the top and probably a nozzle of some sort. That is 9 feet of pressure? That right? 34 inch stand and 2 feet of tank. Seems like a lot.
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
Not neccessarily...With the proper line size you can negate a good bit of the elbow restictions..
Which pump...how many elbows...how high and what flow are you looking for...??
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
looking at the mag line of pumps, deciding between two 9.5, two 12's, or one bigger one. I want a flow of around 1800 either with one pump or two pumps. Only reason I am looking at mag pumps is marine depot has them listed so nicely. If there are other better options I am definitely open to them.
I want to use that flow to blow out deitris from under the rock. Either with two return pipes or four. Probably two..am getting to the point simplicity is better and will probably just use the built in returns and some sort of directional nozel.
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
Mag 12 with 1" line will do 892 gph
With 1 1/4" line will do 980...if you want to run 2 pumps...
Two pumps will give you the security that at least one will still run if the other goes down/jambs/etc...
But balance that against the amp draw/cost of one larger pump and the "room" two pumps will take up in the sump...
Quiet One 5000 will do 911 with 1 1/2" line...
Mag 24 with 1 1/2" line....1620 gph..
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
so if i used the mag 24 and split it into two return pipes it will still do about 1600? I guess I would be taking the pipe from 1 1/2 to 1 at the T?
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member

Originally posted by CoryHerb
so if i used the mag 24 and split it into two return pipes it will still do about 1600?
If you keep it all at 1 1/2" you'l get 1594 gph...
Originally posted by CoryHerb
I guess I would be taking the pipe from 1 1/2 to 1 at the T?
If you do that it'll drop to 1258... :nope:
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
okay..that is good info :)
So if I wanted to go with two pumps..it would be pretty easy to split them into four returns for a more spread out flow back into the tank. Easy as far as the concept is concerned. Actually plumbing it will be an issue I know. Would be a lot more pipes to run behind the tank.
Maybe the mag 24 would be the way to go..1600 is more than enough flow. I know the mag 36 is a huge jump in flow. Too much I think.
thanks again
 
coryherb

coryherb

Member
okay..getting closer to nailing down some things. One thing I can't seem to calculate or find anywhere is how deep I can have the water in the skimmer chamber(to accomodate the skimmer..precision marine bullet 2) and still fit under the cabinet. My cabinet is 34 inches..I am guessing that if the floor of the cabinet is a few inches above the ground I have 31 or 32 inches to work with. The height of the bullet 2 is 24 inches. Which means at most I can raise it 6 inches from the bottom of the sump. I can't find any place that tells me how high the water line for the skimmer is. Although..if i was to guess ..it has to be about a 3rd of the height so lets say 6-8 inches. That means I could have 12 to 14 inches in the skimmer and return chambers. That sound right?
I am thinking I need to go with as wide and as long a sump as I can to get the 40 or so gallons I need in the skimmer/return chambers to settle the flow.
 
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