Startin up a 24gal AqPod Reef

[paintballer768]

Ok, my appologies to peef for jacking his thread for a few posts there. Heres how it is so far...tested the water. Results posted below.
Ammonia - It came up at about in between 0.5 and 1 ppm.
Nitrate - about 40 ppm.
Nitrite - between 0.5 and 1. 0.5
Alkalinity - 300 ppm.
pH - 7.8.
Salinity - 1.022.
I just (like 5 minutes ago from when Im posting this) did a 50% water change and added some live rock to help the process along

. The only thing Ive tested so far is the new salinity, which is now at 1.026, because at my LFS I bought some water from them instead of buying Instant Ocean. It looks so cool for just a starting tank and it really gets ya excited to see what you can make it in to. The pictures I took are too big, and Im too dumb to figure out how to resize them, so Im attaching links to the photobucket with em uploaded.
All in all, I really hope the stats changed. If the nitrates dont go down, Ill just have to get some nitrate-removal chemicals or something, its only more money

Im not sure but the tank may be cycling still. Its been going for about 6 weeks, with 8 bait shrimp doing the job. Their waste-producing may be overloading the bio-load. If someone who knows what the general load should be could please give me some guidance it would be much appreciated. Lemme know how you think the design of the tank is, and thanks a ton for reading this wall of text!
My apologies on the flash, didn't know how to turn it off.
Picture 1
Picture 2

 

[paintballer768]

Oh and a quick question. Do I need a protein skimmer for the tank??

 

[nietzsche]

first of all youre still cycling if you still have ammonia and nitrites, take out the raw shrimp ( just noticed you have live shrimp..) since you have enough ammonia in there to start the cycle. adding more rock is probably just going to add more to the ammonia. dont buy anything to remove nitrates, you dont need it. itll come down after you do a water change after the cycle... also i wouldnt do any water changing, its pointless. ive always let my tanks go through the process and do the water change at the end.
are you sure the test kits are positive?
also why do you have live shrimp in there? you could have easily just gotten a raw shrimp for less than a dollar at walmart or something to start the process
the cycling process usualy takes a month or less.. my 10 took a month exactly and my 14 looks like itll be a little less than a month

 

[paintballer768]

We got live shrimp because we had just gotten the tank, and the next day we went out fishing really early in the AM and decided to pick up some extra and save em for it.
The test kit could always be wrong, but if youre asking what I think youre asking, Im positive that the colors matched the charts.
So youre saying take out the shrimp? If I take em out, then it will stop fueling the ammonia, and then what will happen? If the ammonia goes down, wouldnt it just start up again once I start adding live stock? Sorry, but Ive always been told to cycle the tank, but never really understood the chemical half of it so Im trying to pick up fast.
Looking at the Aquapod filtration area, the left half of it, I noticed alot of chemical-swirling on the surface and little to no circulation in that half of the filtration area, but water is coming out of the jets. Is something blocking it at all?

 

[paintballer768]

bump plz help

 

[new2salt1]

Ok Paint, lets try this. Nitro cycle basics:
Ammonia --> Nitrites --> Nitrates
That is the process without overcomplicating it. I will explain the process in VERY SIMPLE TERMS. You ready? Here we go:
Your new system has started with little to no bacteria. You NEED beneficial bacteria for your system to survive. How do we create bacteria? Well, since bacteria eats waste, we need to create waste.
Ok, so since we need to create waste, we need a source of waste. That is where the piece of frozen shrimp comes in. Now, since there is no way to measure "waste" (a generic term), we measure AMMONIA, which is a by-product of waste. (Note: ANY LEVEL OF AMMONIA CAN BE DEADLY TO YOUR LIVESTOCK!!!!)
So now you should be able to understand why people have told you to put a piece of dead shrimp in the tank. It begins the process by introducing ammonia to your tank, which in turn causes beneficial bacteia to grow in your filter. Exciting huh!!
Now that bacteria has started to grow in your filtration system, it will begin to convert the AMMONIA to NITRITES. NITRITES are less toxic to your livestock than AMMONIA, BUT CAN STILL KILL YOUR FISH!!! THAT is why you want NITRITES AND AMMONIA to read zero.
Finally, after the bacteria is able to convert ammonia to nitrites, there is enough bacteria to convert NITRITES TO NITRATES. NITRATES ae even LESS TOXIC than ammonia and nitrites, but can still kill your tank if they are not kept low.
ONCE YOU HAVE 0 AMMONIA AND 0 NITRITES, YOUR TANK IS CYCLED!!! NOW your goal is to get your NITRATES to be <20-30 (this is debated). You do this by doing a 20-30% water change.
If you do not give this enough time to work itself out, your fish will most likely suffer and die. OR, if you add too much livestock at one time, your system will not have the bacteria necessary to convert the new ammonia to nitrates, and you will kill your fish that way too.
What you need to do in my opinion is remove the shrimp. You want waste, but not too much waste, right? Think about it...
If the goal is to create enough bacteria to turn the ammonia to nitrites to nitrates, won't it take longer to if the ammonia level is really high???? The waste from the live rock is plenty!
Well hopefully that helps. YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. YOU DONT NEED CHEMICALS!!!! LET IT PLAY OUT NATURALLY!!! IF YOU HAVE YOUR HEART SET ON BUYING SOME CHEMICALS, GET SOME FOR YOURSELF, CHILL OUT, AND WAIT TIL YOU HAVE NO AMM/TRITES. THEN DO A WATER CHANGE.
THEN WE SOMEONE MORE QUALIFIED CAN TALK ABOUT YOUR OTHER WATER PARAMETERS.

 

[new2salt1]

Oh, one other thing on water:
DO NOT add water from multiple sources and DO NOT use different brands of salt (unless you are going to change all together).
The reason I say this is because consistency will enable you to pinpoint problems down the line. For example, lets say you have low calcium and high alkalinity. You would have NO IDEA if it was because of the "Instant Ocean" or because of the "LFS Saltwater."
The less variables you have, the better.
Since you want to have control over your specific gravity, always buy fresh RO water and add the salt yourself.
This will save you from future headaches and trying to determine what is causing certain deficiencies or surpluses in your water parameters.
It is also cheaper to add the salt yourself (it is for me anyway).

 

[shrimpi]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
Ok Paint, lets try this. Nitro cycle basics:
Ammonia --> Nitrites --> Nitrates
That is the process without overcomplicating it. I will explain the process in VERY SIMPLE TERMS. You ready? Here we go:
Your new system has started with little to no bacteria. You NEED beneficial bacteria for your system to survive. How do we create bacteria? Well, since bacteria eats waste, we need to create waste.
Ok, so since we need to create waste, we need a source of waste. That is where the piece of frozen shrimp comes in. Now, since there is no way to measure "waste" (a generic term), we measure AMMONIA, which is a by-product of waste. (Note: ANY LEVEL OF AMMONIA CAN BE DEADLY TO YOUR LIVESTOCK!!!!)
So now you should be able to understand why people have told you to put a piece of dead shrimp in the tank. It begins the process by introducing ammonia to your tank, which in turn causes beneficial bacteia to grow in your filter. Exciting huh!!
Now that bacteria has started to grow in your filtration system, it will begin to convert the AMMONIA to NITRITES. NITRITES are less toxic to your livestock than AMMONIA, BUT CAN STILL KILL YOUR FISH!!! THAT is why you want NITRITES AND AMMONIA to read zero.
Finally, after the bacteria is able to convert ammonia to nitrites, there is enough bacteria to convert NITRITES TO NITRATES. NITRATES ae even LESS TOXIC than ammonia and nitrites, but can still kill your tank if they are not kept low.
ONCE YOU HAVE 0 AMMONIA AND 0 NITRITES, YOUR TANK IS CYCLED!!! NOW your goal is to get your NITRATES to be <20-30 (this is debated). You do this by doing a 20-30% water change.
If you do not give this enough time to work itself out, your fish will most likely suffer and die. OR, if you add too much livestock at one time, your system will not have the bacteria necessary to convert the new ammonia to nitrates, and you will kill your fish that way too.
What you need to do in my opinion is remove the shrimp. You want waste, but not too much waste, right? Think about it...
If the goal is to create enough bacteria to turn the ammonia to nitrites to nitrates, won't it take longer to if the ammonia level is really high???? The waste from the live rock is plenty!
Well hopefully that helps. YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. YOU DONT NEED CHEMICALS!!!! LET IT PLAY OUT NATURALLY!!! IF YOU HAVE YOUR HEART SET ON BUYING SOME CHEMICALS, GET SOME FOR YOURSELF, CHILL OUT, AND WAIT TIL YOU HAVE NO AMM/TRITES. THEN DO A WATER CHANGE.
THEN WE SOMEONE MORE QUALIFIED CAN TALK ABOUT YOUR OTHER WATER PARAMETERS.

 

[nietzsche]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
Ok Paint, lets try this. Nitro cycle basics:
Ammonia --> Nitrites --> Nitrates
That is the process without overcomplicating it. I will explain the process in VERY SIMPLE TERMS. You ready? Here we go:
Your new system has started with little to no bacteria. You NEED beneficial bacteria for your system to survive. How do we create bacteria? Well, since bacteria eats waste, we need to create waste.
Ok, so since we need to create waste, we need a source of waste. That is where the piece of frozen shrimp comes in. Now, since there is no way to measure "waste" (a generic term), we measure AMMONIA, which is a by-product of waste. (Note: ANY LEVEL OF AMMONIA CAN BE DEADLY TO YOUR LIVESTOCK!!!!)
So now you should be able to understand why people have told you to put a piece of dead shrimp in the tank. It begins the process by introducing ammonia to your tank, which in turn causes beneficial bacteia to grow in your filter. Exciting huh!!
Now that bacteria has started to grow in your filtration system, it will begin to convert the AMMONIA to NITRITES. NITRITES are less toxic to your livestock than AMMONIA, BUT CAN STILL KILL YOUR FISH!!! THAT is why you want NITRITES AND AMMONIA to read zero.
Finally, after the bacteria is able to convert ammonia to nitrites, there is enough bacteria to convert NITRITES TO NITRATES. NITRATES ae even LESS TOXIC than ammonia and nitrites, but can still kill your tank if they are not kept low.
ONCE YOU HAVE 0 AMMONIA AND 0 NITRITES, YOUR TANK IS CYCLED!!! NOW your goal is to get your NITRATES to be <20-30 (this is debated). You do this by doing a 20-30% water change.
If you do not give this enough time to work itself out, your fish will most likely suffer and die. OR, if you add too much livestock at one time, your system will not have the bacteria necessary to convert the new ammonia to nitrates, and you will kill your fish that way too.
What you need to do in my opinion is remove the shrimp. You want waste, but not too much waste, right? Think about it...
If the goal is to create enough bacteria to turn the ammonia to nitrites to nitrates, won't it take longer to if the ammonia level is really high???? The waste from the live rock is plenty!
Well hopefully that helps. YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. YOU DONT NEED CHEMICALS!!!! LET IT PLAY OUT NATURALLY!!! IF YOU HAVE YOUR HEART SET ON BUYING SOME CHEMICALS, GET SOME FOR YOURSELF, CHILL OUT, AND WAIT TIL YOU HAVE NO AMM/TRITES. THEN DO A WATER CHANGE.
THEN WE SOMEONE MORE QUALIFIED CAN TALK ABOUT YOUR OTHER WATER PARAMETERS.
good job on the explanation. what also might help is having a cup of sand from an established tank

 

[paintballer768]

Wow I think I love you...that makes perfect sense. So keeping the shrimp in the tank is just prolonging the cycling process when it doesnt need to be. What Im going to do is leave the shrimp in there til tomorrow morning so I can go out and use them haha. Then Ill monitor the levels of the nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia, so I can see which step its on. They should spike so it'll give me some kind of indicator.
Thank you so much New2Salt1.
Also, Ill do what you said with the saltwater. I realized that the LFS water is maybe a 1.027 reading, because it took mine up from about 1.022. So what Ill do from now on is when I do a water change, to just use the Instant Ocean and add salt accordingly.
Thanks again

 

[paintballer768]

As of today, the shrimp are gone. Im going to test the water again in a few days and see if the ammonia goes down and the nitrites go up and then Ill know if theres any significant progress coming along.
I noticed on the LR that theres some kind of white web-ish looking stuff on them. It looks like a cob web but underwater, or like a white mold. Not sure but Ill keep track of it and see if it spreads

 

[perfectdark]

You will see alot of things appearing in your tank as it matures and cycles. Keep posting get pictures and ask questions this is the best way to ensure proper proceedures so that you can start out with a healthy tank. IMO I would start testing your PH, amonia, nitrates and SG without question. In time you may want to test for Alk, phosphates and even calcium and magnesium if you start getting corals.
Post your results here so that advise can get given based on specific numbers. Too often you see people post, " water perameters are perfect" and that is based on what they are told. In fact there maybe something really off with them and not even know it.
Ideally you want a SG between 1.024 and 1.026, IMO. PH @ 8.2 to 8.4, and be concious of the time of day you test for PH. Its lower in the evening than it is in the morning. Amonia 0, and trates should be at 0 but up to 15ppm is tolerable and temp should be between 78 and 81 and fluctuations between the morning and evening should be minimal.

 

[paintballer768]

My tester strip kit that I bought tests for trates, trites, ammonia, alkalinity, pH and something else I forgot right now. I have a hydrometer so I can monitor that easy. Ill go test things right now and post the results. This is almost 24 hours without anything living in the tank, including hitchhiker snails which I removed with the shrimp.
SG - between 1.024 and 1.025. The pointer was a bit tough to get moving so it might be 1.025 even or so, but thats what its saying now.
Salinity - 33 ppm.
Ammonia - between 0 and 0.5. It looks almost exactly like the 0.5 color but a tad lighter so Im going with in the middle.
Trates - right near 20.
Trites - Eh, Im going to say in between 1 and 3 (the chart goes from 1 to 3 so I guess 2 eh?).
Alkalinity - 300. Supposedly "Ideal" on the tester. At least one thing appears to be correct.
pH - Im going to say 8.0.
From what PD said, things arent exactly good, but from what I think from the spike in trites it still might be cycling.

 

[perfectdark]

Well they are what they are supposed to be if your tank is still cycling which I believe it is, let it go for a few more days, then test again.
IMO I would do a water change soon. After 6 weeks on a small tank like that, that had 6 shrimp in it up until reciently, IMO a 15% or so water change would help.
Use RO or RO/DI water mix in your salt in a bucket dedicated only for new salt water. Put a power head in the bucket and let it circulate the salt water for 12 to 24 hours. And if you can put a heater in the bucket as you want the temp of the new water to be close to that of the water you are taking out. If you dont have another heater make sure your PH stays in the bucket for a full day. I have found that my PH will heat 6 gals of water in a single day to almost what my tank temp is at.

 

[paintballer768]

I dont know if I posted it or not, but I did a 50% change maybe a week or a week and a half ago. I went to the LFS and got water cuz I got lazy. I wont buy water again from there so I can regulate the salinity and SG better myself.
And sorry to sound dumb or anything, but whats a power head?

 

[perfectdark]

Where will you get your water from?
And a power head or PH is a small pump that circulates water in your tank. They are submersable and come in a number of different ratings of GPH or Gallons per hour that the pump pushes. These are essential IMO for reef tanks as circulation is key.

 

[paintballer768]

Usually I get my water from using distilled water or tap water that I added dechlorinator to, then add Instant Ocean.
So a PH is like a mini mechanical pump just for circulation? Ill have to look into it. My little nano has some great circulation anyways, but if circulation becomes an issue, Ill get one.

 

[perfectdark]

Maxi jet, Rio, Marine land just to name a few all have poweheads and even on these little cubes we all put at least one additional one in. On my thread you will see the main return on my wall has a splitter on it. I upgraded the pump inside the last chamber. Then I added 2 additional power heads to my tank.
Tap water with dechlorinator is no better than regular tap water IMO. Bad Idea all the way around. The purpose for using RO water is that its filtered in such a way that it gets rid of all the harmful impurities but leaves all the essential minerals that will benifit your tank. You should still continue to get your water from your LFS If they sell RO Water. Their water should be fresh not salt and you should add the salt in at home. A little at a time allowing for the power head to mix it and then checking your salintiy till you get to what it should be. After that airating the water for a further 12 to 24 hours to ensure a stable PH and well oxygenated water is essential. This is done with the above mentioned power head.

 

[paintballer768]

Ok. So youre saying that when I go to do a water change I should...
-Use RO fresh water.
-Add the salt myself.
-Use a PH to circulate to the new water before I put it in the tank, adding salt slowly to check the salinity and SG before hand and to test for a good pH.
I was looking at the MaxiJet Powerhead. Looks like it just adds on the side of the bucket/tank? As it comes? It says it can accept 5/8" flexible tubing, but why would I need that?

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by paintballer768
Ok. So youre saying that when I go to do a water change I should...
-Use RO fresh water.Yes
-Add the salt myself.Yes
-Use a PH to circulate to the new water before I put it in the tank, adding salt slowly to check the salinity and SG before hand and to test for a good pH. Check the salinity, till it is where you want it. Then let it circulate over night, before adding it to your tank check the PH.
I was looking at the MaxiJet Powerhead. Looks like it just adds on the side of the bucket/tank? As it comes? It says it can accept 5/8" flexible tubing, but why would I need that?
There are a lot of different types but basically yes they suction on to the inside of the tank and force the water around creating a current and their sizes are based on the amount of gallons per hour they can push. They have alot of different applications and the diameter of the exhaust is important if you wanted to add a locline or extension to it for any reason.
Answers are in RED...