Starting Remote Deep Sand Bed, DIY in bucket

apos

Member
To help keep my nitrates in check (they are hovering at around 20 give or take), I'm starting a super cheap DIY project: a remote deep sand bed. My current tank has a sandbed, but not one deep enough to provide much, if any, denitrification. I have some chaeto in the sump, but not enough room for a real fuge, and so little hope for that doing much either.
The basic idea of the rdsb for those that don't know, as outlined by Anthony Calfo, is to have a 5 gallon bucket or more filled almost completely with sand (the smaller the grain the better). You then pump water over the surface of the sand at a fast enough rate that nothing can settle on it (this is key to making it easy to maintain, unlike sand beds in display tanks, which cannot avoid this problem).
The water diffuses into the sand, eventually forming areas with little oxygen. This is where the denitrification (conversion of nitrates into nitrogen) can happen. The point is not to run water forcefully THROUGH the sand, but to let natural diffusion through the sand work its magic. The system is also kept DARK so that there is no worry of growing any algae or diatoms: the point is that we simply won't have to worry about maintaining this in the way we would about an in-tank dsb. All we're going for here is getting rid of nitrates (and a small increase in water volume and maybe buffering, depending on sand choice)
Materials:
+ tall 6 gallon bucket from LFS ($7.50)
+ 2 uniseal bulkheads, ordered online .75 and .5 size pvc respectively, ($2.30 and $1.30 respectively, plus shipping)
+100 pounds of Quickcrete playsand (very fine grain) from Lowes: ($3.78 a bag)
+Various PVC joints, pipes, and tubes (tbd)
+Either a cheap penguin 145gph pump, or a hagen aquaclear 50 to power system (already owned, but such powerheads can run in the 25$-35$ range)
That puts this project's ballpark cost at $18.66, not counting tax, shipping, plumbing, or powerheads. It would be less if you already had a bucket (some people use old salt buckets, though these were too shallow for my application), more if you didn't already have a powerhead, wanted lots of buffering sand, or didn't have lots of cheap piping equipment equipment floating around.
Tools:
Going to use a Dremel to file down the "ribs" on the bucket where the input and drains will be
Not sure about cutting the holes themselves yet: the holes need to be perfect, and I don't have the right dremel bits to cut the sizes I need. I may have to appeal to a hardware or plumbing store to drill them for me.
I also opted to buy 15 pounds of aragonite sand, just to get some extra buffering for my system in there. Not necessary (Expensive stuff: quite a ripoff, but what the heck can you do?), but can't hurt either. I don't know exactly how much sand will be needed to fill the bucket to the proper capacity yet: I almost certainly won't need all 100 pounds of the playsand. 5 gals can handle about 60 pounds, so I figure my 6 gal will take 72 pounds or more.
Note though that super cheap silica sand like this is okay for this application. We aren't going for looks, or worrying about microfauna burrowing. All we care about is tons of surface area: anything of a very fine grain will do.
I'll have pictures up as the project begins: just waiting for the uniseals to arrive via mail.
 

muggiwhplar

Member
Good luck. I've had one up and running for about three months now and it's brought my nitrates from the twenties down to about 1 ppm. I used a 34-qt plastic garbage can filled about 3/4 of the way up with cheap sand from Home Depot and a Rio 600+ pump (not a fan of Rio, but I wanted something cheap).
 

apos

Member
I'll have pictures and a description of plumbing and putting things together as soon as the site allows uploads again. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether to bother washing the sand. Both the aragonite and the playsand are supposedly washed screened and all the rest in the bag. And while there may be "dust" in the sand most of that is actually superfine crushed particles.... which is GOOD for a RDSB.
Uniseals arrive tomorrow. I'm considering just buying the holesaws I need, but we'll see. I hope to start assembling things on Wednesday.
 
A

alexmir

Guest
Im thinking about putting in a deep remote sandbed. Do you have to have a drilled tank? im a little confused about how exactly it works. Any pics or good links would help a whole lot!
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2455848
...(this is key to making it easy to maintain, unlike sand beds in display tanks, which cannot avoid this problem).
....
I would argue this point, but otherwise totally agree with the concept.
Proper flow and proper clean up crew will keep sandbed clean.
 

apos

Member
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2457640
Im thinking about putting in a deep remote sandbed. Do you have to have a drilled tank? im a little confused about how exactly it works. Any pics or good links would help a whole lot!
No drilled tank necessary, and doubtful anyone would drill their tank just for hooking this up. I plan to simply plumb it into my sump using a powerhead to pump water into the bucket, and then an overflow pipe out of the bucket back into the final chamber of my sump. One thing I hadn't considered was whether it will put bubbles into that final chamber. I don't really have room for more baffles to make even a rudimentary bubble trap. If I can keep the drain submerged at all times, that might work to avoid bubbles, but this is unlikely, as the drain has to be the same size or bigger than the input (to avoid any chance of an overflow).
Gonna have to think about this a little, though it's far from a critical issue.
 

apos

Member
Got some time to continue the project today.
I was able to cram a 1/2 Inner Diameter vinyl tube over the spout of the powerhead, and then work it on far enough to cover the extra hole (you'll note I've also capped the main venturi output hole/peg). This is an aquaclear 50, and it took a bit of work stretching the vinyl tube to actually get it on there.
Next the dremel was used to cut down the rims of the bucket, and then a holesaw to drill the holes (they need to be perfect circles for uniseals to work right). Luckily the two size uniseals I'm using, 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch, both require the same size hole, so I only needed to buy one holesaw for the drill.
Next I chopped up my PVC with a hacksaw and used the dremel to clean up the cuts. The main PVC section I'm using is for the drain, which is all 3/4 inch pipe. I used two 45degree connectors instead of one 90 degree to reduce noise and bubbles a bit. Then I have a

[hr]
together union (wait, I can't say S___W????) so that I can easily attach and detach the drain section to the bucket, which is necessary to make this thing easy to set up under my stand.
I only need one tiny nub of 1/2 inch PVC for the input. (output is bigger than input to reduce the possibility of overflowing in case anything gets partially clogged up).
I plopped the uniseals in the holes and then used a bit of vegetable oil to lube them (instead of the recommended WINDEX). They went in with only a tiny amount of grunting.
I did a wet test in the tub to check the seals, and then a second running it with the powerhead to see what the flow would be like. It's a little less than I'd like now, but the vinyl tubing is actually twice as long here as it ultimately will be, and the height difference is far more than it will be. So things should be much better on the final setup.
Tommorow, if I have time: gluing the PVC and maybe working with the sand.




 

apos

Member
Note that if you wanted, this design would work just as well for a super cheap fuge (and 6 gallons of fuge is pretty decent for a 55 gal tank). You'd just need to cut out the lid of the bucket to add a light.
 

mmm33732

Member
I found my next project.
Although I have heard plenty of times that silica helps adds to nuisance algae growth... still not sure if thats correct or not.
 

apos

Member
Diatoms can get silica right out of glass if they need it. They are just part of the algae cycle: it's nutrients that make them bloom, not silica sand.
Course, if you're worried, you could always spend hundreds of dollars on all aragonite. :)
 

apos

Member
I primed and glued the parts on the bucket (the nub for the input, and one side of the union): I'm not going to bother with the rest until I'm sure everything is plumbed correctly.
I filled the bucket with 5/8 of a 50lb bag of Quickcrete, and then all of the 15lb bag of aragonite, and then Quickcrete again up to about two inches below the drain. I added some gravel on top, but I'm thinking it was a waste: it mostly just sunk into the sand rather than covering it, and in the end, wasn't really necessary.
Next comes the water. I wanted to have the sand saturated before hooking it up to my system, as well as testing the design in a safe place. So I dumped some old SW into the bucket and watched the sand suck it up. Then I hooked it up to a 5 gal bucket of salt water with the powerhead in it and turned it on. I had to turn off the powerhead once or twice while the sand sucked up the water, but eventually it evened out. The sand basically took most of the water out of the 5gal bucket: maybe 3.5 gallons!
You'll note that I also stuck a piece of felt on the end of the drain, just to catch any sand that got pumped through. I checked it later, and not much had gone through (and what did might just have been what had splashed dry into the pipes). The sand really just isn't that dusty or cloudy in the end.
Unfortunately this stuff was restricting the drain so much that it was having a hard time keeping up, and the bucket was starting to fill. Without the felt, it ran fine.
I'm going to let it run for a bit like before I decide to hook it up to my system proper, just to check and see how it develops, if the water motion is good enough, etc. I took the end piece in the input off (glad I didn't glue it!) because I think the flow is better without it.
One problem left is that the drain is pretty gurgly: and not even consistently. I gasps and glugs here at random intervals. I'm gonna have to figure out how to deal with that. Anyone have any idea?



 

alvin

Member
Great Thread! I am definitely going to be trying this. However, I do have a question. I have a 100 Gal Tank. I was/still a Newb and did the mistake of Putting Fine Crushed Coral Sand. My question is, since I will be doing this Remote Deep Sand Bed Bucket, does it make sense to still change out my fine CC and put some Aragonite sand as a Sand Bed, not necessarily a Deep Sand Bed due to the Cost of Aragonite Sand. I don't really have live stock yet, since my system crashed. I have 1 Perc Clown, 1 Purple Goby, 1 hermit, and 1 Turbo Snail.
Also, is Quickrete sand better than Fine Crushed Coral Sand? This would be very helpful, because Aragonite sand is pretty pricey. How much sand (lbs) do I need for this RDSB project anyways?
Sorry if it seems like i'm hijacking this thread. I'm really now =)
 

apos

Member
Originally Posted by yannifish
http:///forum/post/2466400
I think I will make a fuge this way. Will a 170gph powerhead work?
Really depends on the height and distance the powerhead is going to have to move the water, but that's probably not going to do it.
A fuge is probably going to want more flow than I have here, especially because I only have like 2 inches of water to move around, whereas a fuge would have several gallons to move. You'd want to think hard about how to plumb it so that you could get the chaeto or whatever you are trying to grow moving a bit at the surface, and keep stuff from settling on the bottom (which is key to avoid having it become a nutrient sink).
 

apos

Member
Originally Posted by alvin
http:///forum/post/2466644
Great Thread! I am definitely going to be trying this. However, I do have a question. I have a 100 Gal Tank. I was/still a Newb and did the mistake of Putting Fine Crushed Coral Sand. My question is, since I will be doing this Remote Deep Sand Bed Bucket, does it make sense to still change out my fine CC and put some Aragonite sand as a Sand Bed, not necessarily a Deep Sand Bed due to the Cost of Aragonite Sand. I don't really have live stock yet, since my system crashed. I have 1 Perc Clown, 1 Purple Goby, 1 hermit, and 1 Turbo Snail.
A lot of people like to have just a thin layer of sand in their tank, because they like the look of it. Or you can go bare bottom, though whether your livestock is okay with that depends on them. A deep sand bed in tank can be good, or can be disastrous, depending on how you take care of it, or even just plain dumb luck. It's still a pretty big debate with lots of people and opinions on all sides of "what's best."
The good thing about a RDSB is that you can detach it if it ever causes any problems. And because it's "dark" it's far less likely to in the first place anyway: no algae buildup and decay, and hopefully nothing settling on and into the sand. Using a RDSB is sort of independent of what you do in tank. If it's good for your tank to change substrate, do it, if not, don't. A RDSB won't help or hurt that equation either way.
Also, is Quickrete sand better than Fine Crushed Coral Sand? This would be very helpful, because Aragonite sand is pretty pricey. How much sand (lbs) do I need for this RDSB project anyways?
I don't think you'd want Quickcrete in your tank proper regardless. It will probably work fine for this ap largely because the ONLY thing we care about here is surface area for bacteria, no other properties (like packing, or being good for inverts, etc.) I'm not the best person to ask on tank substrates really, and tons of people here can give you better informed advice. I'm not even sure what substrate my tank has: I thought I had crushed coral, but when I bought a bag of aragonite, it looked a lot like my substrate (the tank was bought with substrate from someone else).
 

alvin

Member
So Basically Silica Based Sand would be OK when it is used for this Remote Deep Sand Bed Bucket?
Again, there are a still a few parts in my tank that are showing glass for some reason ( think my goby moved it), so I'm thinking I shouldn't bother paying big bucks for aragonite sand because I'm not doing a DSB in my display tank anyways, the RDSB will be taking care of that part ideally. Maybe just stick with CC or just plain Silica based sand to add to my tank. Basically, which is better for the Display tank, CC or Silica Sand.
I think for sure I am going to just use Silica sand for the RDSB project just to save money. I think I read somewhere that Anthony Calfo said that it does not matter since all we need is surface area for the bacteria.
Also, I am planning on putting this bucket under the tank, would I need a pump inside the bucket? or hope that the pump would just have enough force to bring it up back to the main tank.
 

apos

Member
Originally Posted by alvin
http:///forum/post/2467165
So Basically Silica Based Sand would be OK when it is used for this Remote Deep Sand Bed Bucket?
It's ok for this application. The problem with it is that it doesn't bring much else to the table. It doesn't buffer. It doesn't have natural anti-clumping like oolitic grain stuff. It might be less than comfortable for tender sand inverts.
Basically, which is better for the Display tank, CC or Silica Sand.
Again, better people to ask than me on this. I've heard that CC is potentially a real pain, as its bad on just about every level, including being hard to clean.
I think for sure I am going to just use Silica sand for the RDSB project just to save money. I think I read somewhere that Anthony Calfo said that it does not matter since all we need is surface area for the bacteria.
That's precisely the idea, yeah.
Also, I am planning on putting this bucket under the tank, would I need a pump inside the bucket? or hope that the pump would just have enough force to bring it up back to the main tank.
That sounds like a lot of height for it to cover. Myself, I have a sump, and the return pump is in there, and my bucket will just be a little side loop off the sump. I don't see how you could get a strong enough return pump out of this bucket to pump water that high without also being too much flow for this application.
 
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