Starting up...

[Shilpan]

Hello! I am starting up with a new tank next week. I'm terrified of killing fish so I wanted to run through what I'm doing and seeing if anyone has any pointers.

I'm getting an Aqua-one 400 (400L). This has an Aqua-one proskim g220 skimmer, quad T5 lighting, and of course heater, sump and overflow.

I will be using my own RO/DI water and salt for everything. I will have a tds meter, refractometer and magnetic scrubber. Ive bought new bins to mix saltwater. I know to mix it minimum hour before and heat before using it to not shock fish.

I am using 20-25Kg of dry dead rock, and 20kg of coral sand.

So first I'll set up the tank and rinse it all with tap water. Then I'll set up my rockwork, taking care to brush off extra crap off the rocks. Then add sand. Then add saltwater. Then cure rocks. I'll know this is done when ammonia and nitrite hit 0 and nitrates will be high. (WILL DIE OF FROM ROCKS BE ENOUGH TO CYCLE AND CURE TANK/ROCKS?) This also means the tank is cycled but could take up to a month. During this time I need to run the whole tank including power heads and skimmer. Oh yeah powerheads, I'm planning on buying 2x Tunze nano stream 6020. They do 5000L/Hr and says it's suitable for a 40-250L tank, so I'm thinking two, pointed at each other from opposite ends of the tank will be sufficient. (IS THIS OK?)


After cycling I'll need to do a water change to get the nitrates down (OR DO I NEED TO DRAIN THE WHOLE TANK AND REFILL?).

So now we're a month or two down the line depending on how long it took to cycle and from only nitrate to be elevated, though reduced after my water change. Then I can add two clowns and wait a month

How's that sound? Any advice? The bolded parts I'm
most confused about. Thank you!

 

[bang guy]

I know to mix it minimum hour before and heat before using it to not shock fish.

An hour is the absolute minimum. I strongly recommend mixing it the day before. Mix it as cold as possible, slowly pouring the salt into the water (not the reverse) and stirring as vigorous as possible until all salt is poured in and dissolved.

WILL DIE OF FROM ROCKS BE ENOUGH TO CYCLE AND CURE TANK/ROCKS?

Probably not for dry rocks. I'd suggest ghost feeding (feeding an empty tank as if there was a live fish in the tank). It just takes a small amount of organic material to start rotting to get a cycle going. More is not better!!!!! You just need enough to register an ammonia level on your kit.

I also recommend at least one live rock. This rock will add a variety of bacteria and some small organisms to your system.

After cycling I'll need to do a water change to get the nitrates down (OR DO I NEED TO DRAIN THE WHOLE TANK AND REFILL?).

10% - 20% is fine in my opinion. This is a really good time to add more live rock to test your bacteria colonies and add some diversity of organisms (before adding the more sensitive animals such as fish).

 

[Shilpan]

Wow you're amazing, thank you

1) Ok I understand about the live rock, I'll add a bit while it cycles and I'll add more after it cycles too, before adding fish. Silly question, but say my tank cycled, and I waited a week before adding fish, could it uncycle in that time because the bacteria aren't getting any ammonia to eat?

2) The sand should be cycled with the tank. But not cured with the rock correct? So rock in, water in, cure. Drain water, then add sand add water, and cycle?

Thank you!

 

[bang guy]

1 - Continue ghost feeding until you add a fish. The bacteria won't suddenly die off but the population will decrease and increase in response to the amount of food available. If you're going to add a pair of Clownfish to start (not a bad start at all) then ghost feed as if you already have the Clownfish in the tank. Then you will already have sufficient bacteria to handle a pair of Clownfish even before you add them.

2 - I disagree with your plan on the sand but for me to make a real suggestion I need to know if and when you plan to add live sand. If you're not planning on any live sand then add it along with the base rock and it will cycle with the rest of the system. At some point try to find a fellow hobbyist with a healthy sand bed and steal a cup of live sand from them

 

[Shilpan]

1) Cheers! That's smart.

2) I'm planning on adding dry aragonite sand in bags, so I assume it's not live. (Live = moist and wet and full of good bacteria eh?). Right so add sand with the rock, cycle with the system, and after the tank is cycle add some live rock and live sand to add that good biodiversity to the system?

Then wait and continue ghost feeding for the new live rock to improve the system? Or can I like add live rock and then add fish same day?

Thank you for your help I really appreciate it! Some fish stores keep trying to sell me things instead of offering real advice

Let me know if you disagree and I should change anything. I'm willing to be patient and wait months at a time as long as I get a good tank for my fish.

 

[jay0705]

Just to jump in. It's best to add your rock then fish. Any die off on the rock from transport coupled with adding fish could cause a spike. Especially in a new tank. I will add a new piece of lr now and then as a treat for the fish. New alage, critters ect

 

[Shilpan]

Thank you! Ok I think I got this.

So tank pumps etc on while curing. And let rocks and sand cycle during this. Then add fish. Oh and no lights during cycling to limit algae. Add live rock to help boost microscopic biodiversity.

You guys are epic. I'll definitely update you when my tank arrives in a couple weeks or less.

If any other basic things or tips you wanna share let me know

 

[Shilpan]

So what is the general consensus with cycling and curing with dry sand?

Do we cure rocks separately and then cycle separately? Or do people do them together? Which is better if time isn't an issue.

 

[lmforbis]

I'd cure them in the cycling tank. With no livestock no need to do it separately. If I was adding dead rock to an existing system I'd cure it separately.

 

[jay0705]

Agreed. Start up is your best time to add whatever you want. Sand,rock,equipment, ect. With no live stock you won't kill anything lol. Once critters get added it's more important how and what you add. Generally no sand, so make sure you have enough or none depending on preference before adding fish. Live rock if fully cured can be added w fish in the tank,just not 50# of it.

 

[Shilpan]

Thank you guys you've been a great help! I really appreciate you guys taking your time to help

I am looking forward to this! Been researching for months trying to learn. I think I'll ghost feed or maybe just use bottle bacteria to cycle. Worried I'll ghost feed too much or won't know when to stop ghost feeding, but instructions on bottle should make it easier. Because you base it off of a certain level of ammonia right? Once it hits a certain number you stop?

Oh yeah, do you guys cycle with lights? LFS gives me conflicting advice depending on which staff member I talk to. One says it'll help my coralline alvae grow, another says screw the coralline algae it'll grow later, you need to manage algae control early on.

 

[bang guy]

The idea behind cycling is to grow a healthy bacteria population that is sufficiently large to convert all free ammonia produced by the animals in your system to nitrite and nitrate.

The idea behind ghost feeding is to start small and slowly build up to a food level that is equivalent to what you will normally be feeding your system once stocked with fish.

 

[lmforbis]

Bottled bacteria will give the cycle a jump start but it still needs to be ghost fed to keep it alive. Bottled bacteria will often speed up the cycle but not eliminate it.

 

[jay0705]

Agreed with above. Lighting isn't needed during the cycle. It's not needed even w fish lol. They could care less, it's only if you want to see them lol

 

[Shilpan]

Cheers! So you would keep ghost feeding till fish come in?

Or ghost feed till ammonia hits e.g 2ppm or something then stop?

It feels like if I ghost fed pellets for 1 month or however long I cycled, my tank would be covered in uneaten food?

 

[lmforbis]

You just keep feeding. The uneaten pellets break down and that is where the ammonia is coming from. It is necessary to keep your bacteria alive. Once you have fish they eat the food but still produce waste from that food in the form of poop and urine.

 

[florida joe]

Just my .02 on ghost feeding. Remember it not like you are feeding fish in your tank. With livestock the food you introduce is ingested digested and waste is introduced into your tank quickly when you ghost feed you are introducing food that needs time to break down. In my opinion go light on the ghost feeding so you don’t foul your tank.

 

[Shilpan]

Thank you!

 

[bang guy]

I kinda sorta agree with Joe... Like I mentioned above, start small and slowly build up. For me my target ammonia level is 0.25ppm. I attempt to add just enough food to maintain that level. Like Joe mentioned, it takes a few/several days to get the first ammonia reading. I wouldn't even bother testing it the first week if you don't have live rock. For another perspective, the end result after 6 - 8 weeks should be that you're ghost feeding just enough to feed your first fish. That's not a lot of food. So, the starting amount should just be a fraction of that amount.

I know you're going the bottled bacteria route. I just wanted to try one more time to get you to put in at least a single small live rock. The live rock is going to have a greater diversity of bacteria and I believe that's a good thing.

 

[Shilpan]

Oh yup I'm definitely going with the piece of live rock! I want that biodiversity

Ohhhh are you saying if I put the live rock in, I may not need the bottled bacteria? Cause the live rock has the bacteria, and the ghost feeding supplies the nutrients?

Apologies I misunderstood before