Sump Advice

[smfoister]

I finally got around to adding the baffles to my 30 gallon long (going under a 90 gallon) and during my leak test I noticed my bone head move and felt depressed for a bit. Then I started thinking about it and I don't think it will really have any impact on the operation of the sump but I wanted to get some opinions.

Here is a diagram of what I have created.

http://imgur.com/cXy3VhD

You'll notice that the first baffle is 8 inches and the last baffle is 9 inches. This causes the water to fill the entire front two compartments to 9 inches. The water obviously still have to flow through the bubble trap but there is no "water fall" effect from the first baffle into the bubble trap.

What I'm thinking is that this actually makes it quite a bit more quiet as I won't hear the water falling over the first baffle.

What are your thoughts? Should I move the 9 inch baffle from the return compartment to the skimmer section and have that 1 inch water fall? Does it matter? I can't think of any negatives to just leaving it alone...

 

[pegasus]

If your skimmer is designed to work optimally in 9" of water, you're all set. If 8", you'll need to shim it up. The first issue I see is if you have inverts in the refugium. They'll be able to easily move into the skimmer compartment, which can result in a clogged skimmer pump. The second issue I see is that there could be fluctuations in the water level. Not only in the return chamber, but also in the skimmer compartment... which will create fluctuations in you skimmer. Maybe not enough to make any difference, but possible. Just curious... why is the bubble trap on the skimmer side and not the return side?

 

[bang guy]

I'm missing something. Why would the skimmer compartment ever get below 9" of water?

 

[smfoister]

If your skimmer is designed to work optimally in 9" of water, you're all set. If 8", you'll need to shim it up. The first issue I see is if you have inverts in the refugium. They'll be able to easily move into the skimmer compartment, which can result in a clogged skimmer pump. The second issue I see is that there could be fluctuations in the water level. Not only in the return chamber, but also in the skimmer compartment... which will create fluctuations in you skimmer. Maybe not enough to make any difference, but possible. Just curious... why is the bubble trap on the skimmer side and not the return side?

Thanks for the reply. I've always planned a platform for the skimmer so that issue is mitigated. There will be pods in the fuge but I have never seen pods swim "up stream" so to speak. I think I'll have to play that one by ear and see how it goes. I can always add a small filter/barrier between the skimmer compartment and fuge if need be.

I don't believe the overflow/skimmer and fuge compartments will ever drop below 9 inches. If the water level ever dropped below 9 inches in those compartments then that means my return area is completely dry for some reason. I can't think of a scenario in which that would happen. Am I missing something?

 

[smfoister]

I'm missing something. Why would the skimmer compartment ever get below 9" of water?

The way it's configured, I don't believe it ever would.

 

[smfoister]

Just curious... why is the bubble trap on the skimmer side and not the return side?

Sorry I missed this on the previous post. I've had bubble traps in various spots on other sumps and from my observations I've concluded that the further away from the return pump the better. This way the bubbles have to make it through the trap and also through the fuge before making it to the return pump.

 

[pegasus]

I'm missing something. Why would the skimmer compartment ever get below 9" of water?

If it got below 9", there would definitely be an serious problem... lol! I meant fluctuations above 9". Not likely to happen, but anything's possible...

 

[smfoister]

If it got below 9", there would definitely be an serious problem... lol! I meant fluctuations above 9". Not likely to happen, but anything's possible...

Oh, well ABOVE 9 inches is possible but I'll have an auto top off system so not likely, unless something seriously malfunctions and just fills my sump with RO water.

Sounds like the issues with the large baffle at the end will be minimal. I'll just keep it... I was not looking forward to taking a razorblade to this.

 

[pegasus]

Thanks for the reply. I've always planned a platform for the skimmer so that issue is mitigated. There will be pods in the fuge but I have never seen pods swim "up stream" so to speak. I think I'll have to play that one by ear and see how it goes. I can always add a small filter/barrier between the skimmer compartment and fuge if need be.

Pods don't swim upstream too well, but they sure can crawl. Snails, crabs, shrimp, or anything else will have no problem getting through the trap. Your bubble trap is tank wide, with about 1" openings on each side, correct? This will allow a lot of flow, but not a hard flow. My fuge has a 1/2" slot running across 2/3 of the partition, so there's a fairly strong stream flowing through it. Before I put a screen across the slot, it was nothing to find my snails, crabs, and peppermint shrimp hanging around on the back side of the skimmer. Amphipods and copepods galore, so yes, they can make it upstream. Maybe not by swimming, but they can get there.

 

[pegasus]

Oh, well ABOVE 9 inches is possible but I'll have an auto top off system so not likely, unless something seriously malfunctions and just fills my sump with RO water.

Sounds like the issues with the large baffle at the end will be minimal. I'll just keep it... I was not looking forward to taking a razorblade to this.

LOL... nor would I! It should be okay, but there's only one way to find out... put it to the test. Give us an update when it's up and running.

 

[smfoister]

The big tear down and rebuild is happening on the weekend of the 14th. So once it's all in place I'll be posting for sure.

 

[smfoister]

Ok I'm back and I'm in need of more "Sump Advice". I've pulled the skimmer out of the old sump and brought it over to my house to test fit everything. I would like to have the skimmer in the drain compartment as you can see in these photos:

http://imgur.com/a/xo702

The plexy sitting on top in these photos represents where I'll have the bulk head. I'd like to have a filter sock in this compartment as well, but space appears to be an issue unless I hang it on the side as I have done in one of the photos. How would you guys configure this compartment? Moving the baffles is not outside the realm of possibility but not at all desireable unless necessary.

 

[lmforbis]

I have a similar space issue in my fuge. I special ordered the fuge to fit the space under my tank. I had the guy that made it put in a holder for the filter sock but didn't have him move the baffle over. Moving it now is not an option as it is acrylic. I ended up hanging the skimmer on the front of the drain compartment so the filter sock would fit otherwise I'd have to buy a new skimmer and I don't know how easy it would be to find one with a small enough footprint. It is still a bit tight especially when I have to change the filter sock but otherwise it works well.

 

[pegasus]

If you are using a single bulkhead, why not put a square of plexy that's just big enough to hold the drain in one corner instead of covering the entire end? Looking at photo #5 (http://imgur.com/a/xo702#6KVwkCI), the skimmer is oriented as it should be with the pump intake closest to the overflow. If you mounted the overflow above the intake (in that corner), you should have enough room to install filter socks on the overflow. That is... unless the skimmer and sump are smaller than they appear...

 

[smfoister]

I guess if i use a smaller sock. The sock that has been used on the tank for the past 10 years or so is fairly large. I have seen skinnier socks on others tanks but never thought twice about it.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I would personally put the filter socks in the most easily accessable location... and I would have that glass cut to fit the top of the inside rim of the tank. That being said, I would put the glass on the end of the sump instead of sideways. Cutting glass is easy too. So is cutting holes.

I have a small issue with the return baffle. What will eventually happen is that some macro will die or inverts will crawl and get in the pumps impeller, stopping it and possibly damaging it. You would be better off at 8" of water because that's the range of most skimmers. I would cut out that last return baffle and get three more pieces cut. One at 8" tall, and then two very small pieces that you can silicone in as a ledge. The 9" baffle you have can be silicone'd up higher with 1.5" off the bottom glass. On top of the ledges, you cut egg crate to length and width of the small section between baffles (about 3" wide). On top of the egg crate, you put filter media, chemical media or even live rock rubble. This will keep macro, large inverts and stuff from getting in the pump. Doing it this way will also give your return pumps chamber a little more water volume to allow the tank to evaporate more water between top offs - so that it's not an issue, unless your running an ATO.

But that's just me.

 

[pegasus]

I guess if i use a smaller sock. The sock that has been used on the tank for the past 10 years or so is fairly large. I have seen skinnier socks on others tanks but never thought twice about it.

I've used felt socks in the past, but found them to be more of a pain than an asset. I ended up buying few 4"x8" mesh socks with drawstrings to catch larger particles, and I'm much happier with those. They're easy to maneuver in tight places, and they don't clog nearly as quickly as felt. If I start getting a lot of small particles accumulating, I can slip a 4x8 felt sock over the mesh. This helps reduce cleaning of the felt sock... a little.

 

[snakeblitz33]

So far I like my felt socks. They haven't been hard to clean at all. They make a nylon bag filter that is 200 microns as well that might be of use. I like both of them. The nylon so far has been a little easier to clean but I feel like the felt does a better job filtering out smaller particles.

 

[lmforbis]

I really like the effect of the felt socks on the water clarity. I do have to change them twice a week. Not hard to clean just tedious.

 

[smfoister]

Thanks for the replies. I've decided on a configuration where the skimmer hangs on the side of the sump. I figure if it is capable of it I'm going to do it to save some space. I spent some time today cutting the plexi and devising a way to hold the sock right below the drain bulkhead. I think it's coming along nice. Will post the photos once I have it all together.

6 days and counting until the tank move. This needs to get done quick.