Sump Build: Traditional Tank vs. Rubbermaid?

iowafish

iowafish

Member
Hey all. I need your input...
I'm planning my next tank -- probably going to be a reef in the 125, 180, 220 gl range -- and I'm contemplating my options with respect to my sump.
What are everyone's opinions, like pros and cons, of doing a sump in another tank versus a DIY build in a rubbermaid container or something similar?
I would think that controlling micro bubbles in a rubbermaid would be more of a challenge than in a tank, yes? And incorporating a fuge into a tank is simpler and more streamlined. But I like the appeal of being able to use a much larger container (i.e. increased volume) for a fairly decent price with a rubbermaid-type container. Also, with where I'm planning to place this tank, I wouldn't necessarily be limited to 'beneath the stand' configuration for the sump; I might drill a hole in the subfloor and place sump, etc. in the lower level, so I have some flexibility here.
I'd like to know what's people's opinions are on this. Can't decide which route I want to go, so I'm hoping you all can help me sort through the pros and cons of each.
Okay, discuss....
 
t316

t316

Active Member
I have an aquarium for a sump, but as long as it's out of sight, I don't see why it would matter. Plus like you said, rubbermaid would be a lot cheaper.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
I have a rubbermaid sump on my 65 works great. I run baffeless sumps anyways. micro bubbles really arent that hard to defeat as long as you lay it out properly.
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
those bigger rubbermaids aren't that cheap. they are nearly the price of a tank. the 150 gallon model is about 300 bucks.
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by Mr_X
http:///forum/post/2737354
those bigger rubbermaids aren't that cheap. they are nearly the price of a tank. the 150 gallon model is about 300 bucks.
Holy smokes Batman....I didn't realize they were that much $. I guess you would still have the advantage of flexability and ease of drilling, but at that cost, I'll stick with my glass.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Just out of curiosity, are you talking about a round container like a tub or a longer container like the ones for storage?
 
iowafish

iowafish

Member
Thanks for your replies.
I should have specified that I was, in fact, thinking of a stock tank like the 100gl. X found for 86 bucks (and not the kind that's typically used for household storage). I can get a big Rubbermaid stock tank here locally for 75 - 80, depending on the season. I know they're typically a bit more expensive.
Anyway, now reefkprZ brings up a great point.... what is the proper layout for a baffleless sump? And how do you manage the evaporation issue with the larger surface area? ATO only or a cover or both?
Thanks again for your thoughts -- keep 'em coming!'
KH
 
rackmsukr

rackmsukr

Member
I have a 150 gal DT and for my sump I use an old 55 gal glass aquarium. If you look around you can probably find one for next to nothing. I actually got mine from a lady I work with. Only cost me a case of pop and a 30 pack of Natty Light! LOL The 55 gal works excellent. I have mine divided up into 3 sections. The left side houses the skimmer, middle is where the return pump sits, and the right side is my refugium. I used .25" acrylic for my baffles and used silicone to seal them in place. IMHO a tank is better then Rubbermaid. You can find a used one cheap, just look around!
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
i use a 125 perfecto tank as a sump with refugium on my system. i used ordinary cutting boards from walmart, cut to size, as my baffles. this too, works excellent.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
well to run a baffeless sump you basicly need any source of incoming bubbles as far from your return as possible. also if you angle your down line so it shoots across the water instead of straight down it helps aerate as well as doesn not force bubbles down into the water column. and any LR, sand, macro algaes between incoming and outgoing. I can post a picture of my baffeless rubbermaid on my 65g if you would like.
 
niskyvaulter

niskyvaulter

Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2738579
well to run a baffeless sump you basicly need any source of incoming bubbles as far from your return as possible. also if you angle your down line so it shoots across the water instead of straight down it helps aerate as well as doesn not force bubbles down into the water column. and any LR, sand, macro algaes between incoming and outgoing. I can post a picture of my baffeless rubbermaid on my 65g if you would like.
could you? im also curious as to how it looks. also mr x, that skimmer is gigantic
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
its kind of hard to get a good wide shot of but if you not the place mnent on the ATO float you can picture how its layed out. notice the dsown line is angled so incoming water flows accross the top. under the egg crate is the cheato (I'm trying to grow some algae on the egg crate for a turf scrubber)
and the return pumps are all to the far corner opposite side of the down line. I dont know if you can see it or not but there is even a mini DSB in the container to the far left top corner.


 
iowafish

iowafish

Member
Nope -- folks from Minnesota (where I'm originally from) refer to 'soda' as "pop" also. Anway, we digress... back to the topic at hand...
Mr X -- cutting boards as baffles... simply brilliant. And more cost effective, I'd imagine, compared to same-sized glass or acrylic. Especially on a large sump like your 125. Fantastic idea; I'm going to remember that for sure.
reefkprZ -- thanks for posting the pix of your 65 Rubbermaid. That's helpful for me to visualize how this is layed out. You said two things in your previous two posts that got me thinking:
"...you basicly need any source of incoming bubbles as far from your return as possible." ...and... "...if you angle your down line so it shoots across the water instead of straight down it helps aerate as well as doesn not force bubbles down into the water column."
This got me thinking... Sumps are a finite length and width. [Duhh, everyone knows that.] But in order to increase the linear distance the incoming water has to travel before reaching the return to the DT, has anyone ever increased the distance the water travels by installing baffles in a zig-zag / back-and-forth type fashion? Think of a que line at the amusement park, for example.
Just for a second, visualize what I'm talking about in a traditional tank-type sump. But before everyone chants in unison, "IOWAFISH, just install traditional 'over-under', bubble trap baffles in a tank style sump and be done with it!" ...know that I'm pondering how I might still use a Rubbermaid -- perhaps a smaller one than the initial 100gl. capacity model -- with a modified container-within-a-container type intake compartment, should I go that route.
Does all that rambling make any sense? I don't mean to sidebar or derail my own thread, but I'm just thinking of all possibilities. I think simplest is still best (and is probably what I will ultimately do), but I just don't know that I'm convinced that Tank over Rubbermaid or vice versa does it for me yet.
If you're all still with me, thank you again, very much for your very thoughtful and insightful replies.
KH
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by IOWAFISH
http:///forum/post/2744040
This got me thinking... Sumps are a finite length and width. [Duhh, everyone knows that.] But in order to increase the linear distance the incoming water has to travel before reaching the return to the DT, has anyone ever increased the distance the water travels by installing baffles in a zig-zag / back-and-forth type fashion? Think of a que line at the amusement park, for example.
KH
race way filter,
that has been on my planning table for a while, it has a bunch of possible applications. anthony calfo did a write up on them in his book of coral propagation. here are the old plans for my propagation set up. I have changed the plans a bit, but you get the idea.
 
iowafish

iowafish

Member
Wow... that took a while to digest! Kidding -- I've not been following this for a few weeks due to lingering computer issues.Anyway, reefkprZ, amazing diagram. Thanks for sharing. I'm glad to hear I wasn't losing my mind to a silly brainstorm -- that someone far more knowledgeable (both yourself and Calfo) had thought of this before. Can't wait to see your propagation station project.
To summarize that I think I've learned with this thread (if anyone ever reads it and gives a damn)...
TRADITIONAL TANK SUMP:
Benefits: readily available (either new or used), can be configured under the stand, horizontal field of view, can be either purchased or easily modified in several different configurations, purchased new they can be more economical than a similarly sized aquarium.
Drawbacks: Leaks and/or breakage a greater concern, bought new they can be expensive, must be planned with the stand limitations in mind.
RUBBERMAID STOCK TANK SUMP:
Benefits: sizing less of an issue (since most 'stock-sized' models would be plumbed elsewhere besides under the stand), easy access, no limit to the height of some in-sump equipment, very durable / nearly leak and breakage proof.
Drawbacks: can be more difficult to find (depending on region/area of country), top-down view only (don't know that this is really a big deal though), not as easy to 'baffle' as a traditional tank.
I think, at least for me, it all comes down to a question of accessability and whether or not I ultimately want to plumb my next tank's sump into the basement/lower-level of the house. There are obviously benefits and drawbacks to either method, but neither is emerging as the 'best.' I think it all just comes down to personal preference.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in and for listening to my rambling.

KH
 
addicted4life

addicted4life

New Member
Option #3
Build your own out of acrylic. I did. Made just the way I wanted it, external return pump, and of course a bubble trap just before the return/auto-top off chamber. A fuge area in the center, and a nice area for my skimmer to sit.
Also helped a friend put a 70 gallon stock rubber tub in his crawl space. Works great, we added 2 large 1-1/2" bulkheads to the tub at the water level we wanted, these carried the water to a second smaller rectangular Lowe's tub, that we put the baffles and auto top-off in, also the external pump was connected to the smaller tub.
 
kilted reefer

kilted reefer

Member
For the rubbermaid sump, you could create a makeshift baffle by putting a smaller container in the main container, weight it down with LR. Your overflow and skimmer would flow into it. Then the microbubbles would be controlled.
Very rough sketch.
 
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