Sump Desing.
- Thread starter costa13
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vicegrip
Guest
I think it looks great. If you wanted you could go a few inches taller on the fuge. On a 90Gal. you may need a bigger mag-drive. I have a 9.5 on my 75 and I almost could go bigger.
larryndana
Active Member
whats the differences with the return in the middle or on side, pros - cons?
larryndana
Active Member
whats the differences with the return in the middle or on side, pros - cons?
kwilliejr
Member
Hi,larryndana,{not like sighn guy to take off like that,hope all is well?}as I am a rookie,I cant tell you much,as I understand it a flow through fuge would 1} give your skimmer raw material from your overflows,then passed through the fuge for further bio-filtering by your live rock, caulerpa,or chaeto.all in one step.{there are differences of opinion on this issue?}at any rate,a thought might go out to an external pump for return and using that room for a bigger fuge then the point would be mute. I hope this helps somewhat. kwillie
costa13
Member
I found this at melvsreef explaining the difference designs.
"What is the best layout?
There are a number of ways to configure the compartments, including some comments:
Skimmer > Refugium > Return
This is a simple layout that keeps the flow going in one direction. One objection often voiced is that “you don’t want to skim out the nutrients in the water going to the refugium.” This isn’t possible to do, unless every drop of water had to go through the skimmer to get into the refugium. Most of the water runs right past the skimmer! Even with a very weak return pump, the water pumped into the skimmer is only a portion of the body of water traveling into the next compartment.
Benefit - all baffles are the same height.
Skimmer > Return >Refugium
In this situation, the two outer compartments receive their water from two sources (or one supply line that has been split), and pour into the central compartment.
Benefit - Refugium wall can be taller, and the amount of water flowing through it can be controlled with a ball valve.
Refugium > Skimmer > Return
This is a bad idea in my opinion, because the micro fauna (copepods, amphipods and more) that you hope to send up to your display tank as food are going to be skimmed out of the water before they ever reach the Return zone. If this is your layout, have the refugium drain via PVC pipe directly into the Return zone, bypassing the skimmer zone.
Benefit - none."
I hope this answers your questions.
"What is the best layout?
There are a number of ways to configure the compartments, including some comments:
Skimmer > Refugium > Return
This is a simple layout that keeps the flow going in one direction. One objection often voiced is that “you don’t want to skim out the nutrients in the water going to the refugium.” This isn’t possible to do, unless every drop of water had to go through the skimmer to get into the refugium. Most of the water runs right past the skimmer! Even with a very weak return pump, the water pumped into the skimmer is only a portion of the body of water traveling into the next compartment.
Benefit - all baffles are the same height.
Skimmer > Return >Refugium
In this situation, the two outer compartments receive their water from two sources (or one supply line that has been split), and pour into the central compartment.
Benefit - Refugium wall can be taller, and the amount of water flowing through it can be controlled with a ball valve.
Refugium > Skimmer > Return
This is a bad idea in my opinion, because the micro fauna (copepods, amphipods and more) that you hope to send up to your display tank as food are going to be skimmed out of the water before they ever reach the Return zone. If this is your layout, have the refugium drain via PVC pipe directly into the Return zone, bypassing the skimmer zone.
Benefit - none."
I hope this answers your questions.
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by costa13
I found this at melvsreef explaining the difference designs.
"What is the best layout?
There are a number of ways to configure the compartments, including some comments:
Skimmer > Refugium > Return
This is a simple layout that keeps the flow going in one direction. One objection often voiced is that “you don’t want to skim out the nutrients in the water going to the refugium.” This isn’t possible to do, unless every drop of water had to go through the skimmer to get into the refugium. Most of the water runs right past the skimmer! Even with a very weak return pump, the water pumped into the skimmer is only a portion of the body of water traveling into the next compartment.
Benefit - all baffles are the same height.
Skimmer > Return >Refugium
In this situation, the two outer compartments receive their water from two sources (or one supply line that has been split), and pour into the central compartment.
Benefit - Refugium wall can be taller, and the amount of water flowing through it can be controlled with a ball valve.
Refugium > Skimmer > Return
This is a bad idea in my opinion, because the micro fauna (copepods, amphipods and more) that you hope to send up to your display tank as food are going to be skimmed out of the water before they ever reach the Return zone. If this is your layout, have the refugium drain via PVC pipe directly into the Return zone, bypassing the skimmer zone.
Benefit - none."
I hope this answers your questions.
Design looks good.......Have you started the build yet?
I found this at melvsreef explaining the difference designs.
"What is the best layout?
There are a number of ways to configure the compartments, including some comments:
Skimmer > Refugium > Return
This is a simple layout that keeps the flow going in one direction. One objection often voiced is that “you don’t want to skim out the nutrients in the water going to the refugium.” This isn’t possible to do, unless every drop of water had to go through the skimmer to get into the refugium. Most of the water runs right past the skimmer! Even with a very weak return pump, the water pumped into the skimmer is only a portion of the body of water traveling into the next compartment.
Benefit - all baffles are the same height.
Skimmer > Return >Refugium
In this situation, the two outer compartments receive their water from two sources (or one supply line that has been split), and pour into the central compartment.
Benefit - Refugium wall can be taller, and the amount of water flowing through it can be controlled with a ball valve.
Refugium > Skimmer > Return
This is a bad idea in my opinion, because the micro fauna (copepods, amphipods and more) that you hope to send up to your display tank as food are going to be skimmed out of the water before they ever reach the Return zone. If this is your layout, have the refugium drain via PVC pipe directly into the Return zone, bypassing the skimmer zone.
Benefit - none."
I hope this answers your questions.
chuckcac
Member
as far as designing the return pump vs. the overflow... you need to consider
1. how much gph is the overflow rated for... (with a 1" pipe you can acheive 600gph)
2. how many feet of head does the return have (linear feet + all elbows) for example... the mag 9.5 will return about 750gph at 5ft of head.
3. you want your overflow to be rated for MORE than what the pump will return or you will run the pump dry cause the overflow wont be able to keep-up
you could use the 9.5 and throttle the return with a ball valve
or get an overflow rated for a higher gph than what the pump returns
another option i recently thought of and plan to do is use for my fuge/sump is;
an over flow rated for 600 + the 9.5 at 5ft head (750gph)... i plan to put a 'T' in the return line and divert some of the return flow back to the fuge section... i would control this with a ball valve... this way i can avoid pumping too much water to the display and running the pump dry without throttling and shortening the life span of the pump....
hope this helps :joy:
1. how much gph is the overflow rated for... (with a 1" pipe you can acheive 600gph)
2. how many feet of head does the return have (linear feet + all elbows) for example... the mag 9.5 will return about 750gph at 5ft of head.
3. you want your overflow to be rated for MORE than what the pump will return or you will run the pump dry cause the overflow wont be able to keep-up
you could use the 9.5 and throttle the return with a ball valve
or get an overflow rated for a higher gph than what the pump returns
another option i recently thought of and plan to do is use for my fuge/sump is;
an over flow rated for 600 + the 9.5 at 5ft head (750gph)... i plan to put a 'T' in the return line and divert some of the return flow back to the fuge section... i would control this with a ball valve... this way i can avoid pumping too much water to the display and running the pump dry without throttling and shortening the life span of the pump....
hope this helps :joy:
larryndana
Active Member
Originally Posted by costa13
I hope this answers your questions.
Yes, it did answer my questions. Thanks.
Also, i just got back from Huntsville, al....although i didn't get to check out any stores....are there any good ones in AL.
I hope this answers your questions.
Yes, it did answer my questions. Thanks.
Also, i just got back from Huntsville, al....although i didn't get to check out any stores....are there any good ones in AL.
hurt
Active Member
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This is the one statement I disagree with, but not only for the reason you stated, although what you said is also very true. Skimmers don't compete with Macro's. They perform completely different tasks. Skimmers take out DOC's before they can enter the ammonia cylce. They don't take out nitrates or phosphates. They can "help" take out phosphates when kalk is dripped into the skimmer chamber though. Macro's on the other hand don't take out DOC's, they take out nitrates and phosphates. Completely different functions. The thing about most of the center return fuges, are most all just dump raw tank water directly into the fuge. There is no bubble trap or a place for detritus to settle out. So you are just making your macro's dirtier and these organics that you would prefer to be exported via a skimmer are allowed to linger as sediment, get tied up in refugia otherwise, thus it just creates a larger load on the tank. If you have at least a bubble trap before the water enters the fuge, this does not happen, and it it is much easier to siphon out the detritus in this chamber. Also without having the bubble trap before your refugium, you will get a lot of salt creep on your lights, which of course blocks most of the light.
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“you don’t want to skim out the nutrients in the water going to the refugium.”This is the one statement I disagree with, but not only for the reason you stated, although what you said is also very true. Skimmers don't compete with Macro's. They perform completely different tasks. Skimmers take out DOC's before they can enter the ammonia cylce. They don't take out nitrates or phosphates. They can "help" take out phosphates when kalk is dripped into the skimmer chamber though. Macro's on the other hand don't take out DOC's, they take out nitrates and phosphates. Completely different functions. The thing about most of the center return fuges, are most all just dump raw tank water directly into the fuge. There is no bubble trap or a place for detritus to settle out. So you are just making your macro's dirtier and these organics that you would prefer to be exported via a skimmer are allowed to linger as sediment, get tied up in refugia otherwise, thus it just creates a larger load on the tank. If you have at least a bubble trap before the water enters the fuge, this does not happen, and it it is much easier to siphon out the detritus in this chamber. Also without having the bubble trap before your refugium, you will get a lot of salt creep on your lights, which of course blocks most of the light.
costa13
Member
Originally Posted by chuckcac
as far as designing the return pump vs. the overflow... you need to consider
1. how much gph is the overflow rated for... (with a 1" pipe you can acheive 600gph)
2. how many feet of head does the return have (linear feet + all elbows) for example... the mag 9.5 will return about 750gph at 5ft of head.
3. you want your overflow to be rated for MORE than what the pump will return or you will run the pump dry cause the overflow wont be able to keep-up
you could use the 9.5 and throttle the return with a ball valve
or get an overflow rated for a higher gph than what the pump returns
another option i recently thought of and plan to do is use for my fuge/sump is;
an over flow rated for 600 + the 9.5 at 5ft head (750gph)... i plan to put a 'T' in the return line and divert some of the return flow back to the fuge section... i would control this with a ball valve... this way i can avoid pumping too much water to the display and running the pump dry without throttling and shortening the life span of the pump....
hope this helps :joy:
1.the tank would be reefready or drilled. I don't does this changes anything.
2.I do not know the exact amount of feet yet.(Waiting for my dad to begin building the stand) also I would use the flexible pvc on the return so I would not have to use 90s.
3.does this mean I should either make supplly pvc bigger or get a smaller mag pump?
Also , great idea!
Let me know how it works.
I really appreciate all you help. As you can see I modeled my sump after yours LOL.
as far as designing the return pump vs. the overflow... you need to consider
1. how much gph is the overflow rated for... (with a 1" pipe you can acheive 600gph)
2. how many feet of head does the return have (linear feet + all elbows) for example... the mag 9.5 will return about 750gph at 5ft of head.
3. you want your overflow to be rated for MORE than what the pump will return or you will run the pump dry cause the overflow wont be able to keep-up
you could use the 9.5 and throttle the return with a ball valve
or get an overflow rated for a higher gph than what the pump returns
another option i recently thought of and plan to do is use for my fuge/sump is;
an over flow rated for 600 + the 9.5 at 5ft head (750gph)... i plan to put a 'T' in the return line and divert some of the return flow back to the fuge section... i would control this with a ball valve... this way i can avoid pumping too much water to the display and running the pump dry without throttling and shortening the life span of the pump....
hope this helps :joy:
1.the tank would be reefready or drilled. I don't does this changes anything.
2.I do not know the exact amount of feet yet.(Waiting for my dad to begin building the stand) also I would use the flexible pvc on the return so I would not have to use 90s.
3.does this mean I should either make supplly pvc bigger or get a smaller mag pump?
Also , great idea!
I really appreciate all you help. As you can see I modeled my sump after yours LOL.
costa13
Member
Originally Posted by larryndana
Yes, it did answer my questions. Thanks.
Also, i just got back from Huntsville, al....although i didn't get to check out any stores....are there any good ones in AL.
I live down in Mobile and there is an excellent fish store down here, so I really do not have to go up to Hunstville. If you ever come down here let me know and I will tell you how to get to Progresssive Marine. Progressive Marine is the best fish store ever, the guy who works there isn't out to really sell. he loves the hobby so much he will tell you the best and cheapest route to go, instead of making a sale.
Yes, it did answer my questions. Thanks.
Also, i just got back from Huntsville, al....although i didn't get to check out any stores....are there any good ones in AL.
I live down in Mobile and there is an excellent fish store down here, so I really do not have to go up to Hunstville. If you ever come down here let me know and I will tell you how to get to Progresssive Marine. Progressive Marine is the best fish store ever, the guy who works there isn't out to really sell. he loves the hobby so much he will tell you the best and cheapest route to go, instead of making a sale.