sump/fuge plans

[gregvabch]

i'm attaching the diagram i made of the sump/refugium i'm planning to build. any critisism or advice would be appreciated. i'm going to use a 20 gal all glass aqquarium for the skimmer/sump area and a 14 gal rubbermaid container for the fuge. i'm going to run a berlin turbo classic and a mag 7 for the return pump. keep in mind the plumbing is not going to look exactly like it's set up, it's just easier to put in angles in windows paint shop than curves.

 

[fulcrum]

As far as I can see you get an "A" for plumbing theory.
Two questions:
1) How do you plan to light the fuge?
2) Is this all going to fit under your tank? The rubbermaid up higher than the 20 gal. is going to be a little tall once you consider lights.

 

[krunk]

Hw big is your tank?
How much gph is your overflow?
I read somewhere on this site that your water should go through the skimmer first, not the fuge. The pods and other things, can get in the skimmer.

 

[krunk]

Nevermind, i relooked at your plan, and i mixed the Return with the From tank.

 

[gregvabch]

the reason i'm designing it this way is to contend with the lack of space under my tank. i've got a 55 gallon so that's why i'm doing the side by side thing with a shelving unit. eventually i want to get a bigger tank and i'll be able to put all that underneath. for the fuge i'm going to use the lights that originally came with my glass tops, they're 19 watts apiece, (38W). i'll get some of those plant bulbs to put in them and just place them lengthwise over the fuge. the overflow is rated at 600 gph but i modified it as well as installed a ball valve. i'll also have another valve on the return line. i'm going to run it wide open when it's up and running and see what adjustments i need to make as it runs its course for a few hours.

 

[krux]

if you were to instead plumb it this way you would eliminate some of the head pressure on your return pump, giving you more water flow as it will not be pushing against the extra fitting and the ball valve, not to mention the water that is diverted off.
additionally, if you were to place some vertical baffles in the return side that would separate the return pump from the fuge and the skimmer return, it will greatly cut down the bubbles that you will be getting in your tank. having the skimmer return in the same chamber as your return makes it near impossible to not have a bubble problem without aforementioned baffles/dividers.
great design, mine is very similar.

 

[gregvabch]

krux, i understand what you mean about the baffles and i think i might just incorporate some on the right side of the sump and have the skimmer and the refugium overflow dump into that chamber before hitting the return pump. however, i didn't quite get the gist of what you were saying about the plumbing. could you reitterate? do you mean don't install a ball valve on the plumbing for the return line? i just want to make sure i'm not sending more water up than is being supplied and vice versa. i figure the best way to do that is to install some sort of regulator.

 

[gregvabch]

sorry, i made the same mistake you did earlier. i see now what you meant but still the pump without a ball valve would have no source of regulation if it were to overcompensate the overflow.

 

[krux]

the only problem you would run into is if your overflow did not have the gph to keep up with your pump. to be on the safe side you could of course ball valve it too, which will add a bit of head pressure, but will give you that margin of safety. going that route would still give you maximum power should your overflow be able to handle it however.
i suspect that your overflow is at least 500 gph after your modifications, probably closer to 550-600. you can do some basic measurements and estimate your head pressure, and that will give you an idea of wether or not your mag7 will go over that.
if i was in your situation, i would step up to a mag 9.5 and make myself a nice spraybar. the extra turns and nozzles in the spraybar will more than absorb the extra flow, and with a ball valve you are 100% safe. mostly because i wouldnt want to rebuy down the line... i am cheap and like to try to do things once.
whichever will give you great results though. you can always do it as planned, and if you need more flow, you can do a closed loop system, or rely on in tank powerheads. if you have already done some shopping, or are more confident with what you have been working on, that might be a much better way to go. no reason to risk an overflow if you are close to your maximum overflow rate already.
HTH

 

[tboone]

Quick question here about your fuge diagram. Why two lines (vs. one) out from the fuge to the sump? I'm getting ready to add a fuge with a very similar design to yours and was just wondering if two lines are necessary.
Thanks,
Tim

 

[gregvabch]

you could use just one, i may myself. i was just looking for a way to avoid spilling any water if say some of the macro clogged up the overfill line into the sump.

 

[krux]

by the way, i [ulled this off the internet somewhere, wish i knew where so i could give the builder credit, but alass i didnt. maybe you will want to try this for your overflow in your fige to minimize clogging potential.

 

[gregvabch]

is that strainer made of metal though? i thought that was a no no.

 

[krux]

i am guessing stainless steel.

 

[broomer5]

gregvabch
I like your design.
In addition to what you, krux and others have discussed, I would consider the following if I were plumbing this up.
If you go the spraybar route - and choose a Mag9.5 as return pump, you could plumb in a tee above the pump. Two ball valves off of this tee.
One to regulate flow to display tank - One valve as a balancing/bypass line back to the sump. This will let you run the pump efficiently with less backpressure - should you need to throttle back the display tank / overflow rate.
Without this bypass diverter - I would use the Mag7 with your current overflow.
With the bypass diverter - I would consider the Mag9.5
I would position the dual refugium drainlines at the same height.
If one is higher, it may never even see water. The lower would be the primary and would take all the water. The higher one would serve as a safety - but may never be used.
Both at the same height would allow each to handle half the flow.
Naturally if you want the lower to be the primary drain, with the higher one acting as a high level safety - go with it. That's not a bad thing to have.
The divider you have in your drawing that separates the skimmer from the other side of sump - however high this is will dictate the water level in your sump. If it's too high - you may not have enough "room" left for drain back from the tank when power goes off.
In other words - you don't want to run the sump too high, or too low. This wall will affect the sump level.
One last note on PVC ball valves.
They are great to have.
They do indeed create backpressure .. IF you use the same size as your piping.
Look through the hole of a 1" PVC ball valve. It normally is a reduced port ball. The hole is not the same diameter as the piping.
Up sizing to the next larger size or two will still allow for flow control, but will not create such a large restriction pressure drop when in the full open position.
For 1" pipe - use 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 ball valves ... etc.
Good luck !

 

[gregvabch]

i think i'm going to run a separate pump for the refugium. my buddies got a rio 1100 that he's going to hook me up with. i'll get the overflow, the skimmer, and the return pump, (Mag 7), online and running tonight. once i see how it runs, then i'll add the pump for the fuge and get that running. finally, when this balances out, (cross my fingers!), i'll add one more rio 1100 for my chiller. i may have to make some modifications somewhere in the plumbing but i'm pretty sure i can make it work. wish me luck.

 

[krux]

sounds great. i was going to mention watching putting a ton of pumps in for temp reasons, but as one will be running a chiller, that solves that problem effeciently.
let us know how it works for ya, and post some pics if ye can when yer done, i would love to see how it turned out.

 

[tang_man_montreal]

Krux,
That "netting" on the picture of the skimmer input is used on gutters. You can find it any any hardware store in the gardening/outdoor dept.
It's PLASTIC. and works great for a variety of things, including making your canopy fishproof....

 

[gregvabch]

man, got the overflow, skimmer, and the return pump in unison and couldn't figure out what was wrong with the skimmer. turns out it's broken. new one's on the way, should be here tomorrow, no charge.

 

[krux]

nothing quite like spending all that money, planning to have it all get there at once, planning time to do the instal, and then finding something is broken. that happened to me with an airbrush i got once. compressor, fume hood, airbrush all came, turned out the needle in the brush was broken so i got to sit a week waiting for a $2.00 part for my $800.00 setup.