super high nitrates......

[compjtc]

Hello! I'm new to the board and new to saltwater aquariums.
There is a local pet shop going out of business so a week ago I bought a used 55 gallon saltwater setup he had. It included the tank, filter, lights, stand, crushed coral, and a few pieces of live rock. When I picked the tank up I emptied the water into buckets and took it with me.
When I got it back to my place I put the water back in, then topped it off (about 10 gallons) with more water and some instant ocean salt.
After a couple days I tested it ( with a saltwater master liquid test kit) and the ammonia and nitrites are at 0, the ph is good, but the nitrates are so high they aren't even on the color card.
I changed about 20% of the water a couple days ago then, and that didn't seem to help any. I tested the water I was putting in there and it tested 0 for nitrates. Anybody have any clue what's going on and what I can do about it? Right now there are no fish in the tank but there are several crabs and snails. They havne't died...yet.
Thanks!
John

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by compjtc
Hello! I'm new to the board and new to saltwater aquariums.
There is a local pet shop going out of business so a week ago I bought a used 55 gallon saltwater setup he had. It included the tank, filter, lights, stand, crushed coral, and a few pieces of live rock. When I picked the tank up I emptied the water into buckets and took it with me.
When I got it back to my place I put the water back in, then topped it off (about 10 gallons) with more water and some instant ocean salt.
After a couple days I tested it ( with a saltwater master liquid test kit) and the ammonia and nitrites are at 0, the ph is good, but the nitrates are so high they aren't even on the color card.
I changed about 20% of the water a couple days ago then, and that didn't seem to help any. I tested the water I was putting in there and it tested 0 for nitrates. Anybody have any clue what's going on and what I can do about it? Right now there are no fish in the tank but there are several crabs and snails. They havne't died...yet.
Thanks!
John
Those trates need to be brought down and FAST or you will lose your inverts. If it came from a pet store, my guese is they weren't doing water changes enough. Can you put your inverts into another tank while you dilute these down them acclimate them back in? If not, start doing daily 20-30% water changes. The only way to get rid of nitrates is through water changes. To avoid this problem in the future, you may want to consider a refuge. This is a tank that holds salt plants and other critters that eat nitrate. Other than that, the only solution is water changes.

 

[120reefer]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Those trates need to be brought down and FAST or you will lose your inverts. If it came from a pet store, my guese is they weren't doing water changes enough. Can you put your inverts into another tank while you dilute these down them acclimate them back in? If not, start doing daily 20-30% water changes. The only way to get rid of nitrates is through water changes. To avoid this problem in the future, you may want to consider a refuge. This is a tank that holds salt plants and other critters that eat nitrate. Other than that, the only solution is water changes.
Agreed 100%... it is the only SAFE way.. IMO

 

[sebae09]

the problem is you stired everything up when you moved it but mainly crushed coral {EDIT LANGUAGE} and builds up nitrates. do some 20 gal water changes.

 

[compjtc]

Wow, I didn't realize this was such an active forum! Thanks for the quick reponses! I just did a 10 gallon water change, I'll plan on doing around a 20 gallon water change tomorrow! Hopefully I can get this problem in check. If I had to guess my current nitrates are around 180ppm...not good!

 

[murph]

You will have to dilute down the nitrates with new water.
If you have some money to spend here is what I would do.
You will need a return pump an overflow a large Rubbermaid container or trash can and a bunch of new salt mix and preferably RO/DI water.
Set your container right next to the aquarium and mix up your new water right inside to the same SG as your tank. After thoroughly mixed set up your overflow directed into this container and return pump from, into the aquarium. Allow it to run like this for at least a day and then check your nitrates. It is likely you will have to repeat the process at least a few times. Simply discard the water in the Rubbermaid mix up new and restart the plumbing.
Some what like the instructions on your shampoo bottle. Dilute, discard, repeat.
The larger the Rubbermaid container the quicker you will see results. A Rubbermaid trash can with wheels will make things much easier and faster and holds about 50 gallons of water. For a 50 gal tank it is possible to cut your trates in half with just one batch of new water.
This method will also provide for the least disturbance to the main tank as possible and once finished the new equipment can be used to set up a sump and or hold new mix water or take out the trash. :joy:

 

[compjtc]

that sounds like an idea. I have no overflow or pump equipment, but I could see what I can rig up.
Now for the newb question: I noticed when I was poking around in the crushed coral there is huge amounts of mucky brown stuff. I know this is mostly organic waste that could be leading to my nitrate problem, but I also know it houses some of the essential bacteria I need. Should I be sucking this crap out of the cc or should I leave it be?

 

[murph]

Most everyone will agree that crushed coral substrate is not ideal as you have found.
You can replace it over the course of time with minimal disturbance to the tank or its bio filtration.
First decide if you want a deep sand bed or shallow. You can do some research on this by using the search function on the forum.
Buy some aragonite sand from your LFS and rinse the dust out of it. Take a length of 3/4 inch hose like you would use to siphon water out of the tank for a water change. You will find that if you stick it down into the CC substrate the CC will rise up and out of the tank with the water. Do small sections at a time replacing the CC with sand after it has been pulled off the bottom of your tank. Wait a day or two and do another small section. This will also accomplish some more water changing which as you know is necessary for the situation your in right now.
The new sand can be slid down a length of 1 inch diameter PVC to the bottom of the tank to avoid sand storms.

 

[compjtc]

that doesn't sound like a bad idea! I have been reading up on switching but it's been sounding almost easier to setup a new, larger tank if I want to do that. For right now though I only have about 7 months left on the lease for my apartment, and I am going to move to a bigger place after that. I'll probably do the live sand switch in conjunction with the move. If I can i'm wanting to just stick it out with the coral till then. But back to the question, do I vacuum out all the crap that is deep down in the coral or leave it be and take the water off the top?

 

[wattsupdoc]

IMO.... I would treat it just likeyou would a gravel bottom in a freshwater tank. Vacuuming the gravel (in you're case cc) removes waste wich has not yet been broken down. If it doesnt decompose it cant eventually turn to nitrates. Dont vacuum it all out just get about 60% or so. You stirred the gravel up when you moved it. This cause a big spike in you're nitrates because there was alot of waste in the coral as it had not been vacuumed in some time. The waste was slowly decomposing and partially decomposed. when it was agitated it rapidly broke down and you got a spike in trates because the bacteria was substantial enough to rapidly digest it. :notsure: I dunno but it sounds good.

 

[compjtc]

thanks! I cleaned the crushed coral and have been doing approx 30% water changes every day. Besides for going through a huge amount of salt it's starting to make progress. Right no the nitrates are sitting around 70ppm, down from the 180 it was before. Somehow my inverts haven't died yet either...cool

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by compjtc
thanks! I cleaned the crushed coral and have been doing approx 30% water changes every day. Besides for going through a huge amount of salt it's starting to make progress. Right no the nitrates are sitting around 70ppm, down from the 180 it was before. Somehow my inverts haven't died yet either...cool
Thats great!!!!! Keep doing the changes untill you are down to about 10-20. It is recomended under 30 for fish and inverts and under 10 for corals. Good luck and I am glad you are making progress and have not lost any!

 

[xdave]

The LFS didn't do water changes on their DT, gee I wonder why they went out of business

general lack of basic tank care perhaps?
If nothing died yet, it probably wont. The nitrate either built up so slowly it didn't hurt as much, or you did stir it up and the crabs and stuff are tough guys.
You didn't say what kind of filter. The filter media (in under gravel set ups that would be the actual tank gravel) needs to be handled as if it were live, because it is. In fact, it's the most important lifeform in an aquarium. If it stayed fairly wet and warm till you got it running it's probably ok.

 

[ibew]

I tried to put a tube in the bottom of my tank to remove the CC it doesnt work

 

[compjtc]

I moved the tank with enough water in it to keep the gravel wet. The filter that came with the tank is a tetratec power filter (pf500 I think) It's kinda cool becuase it has the heater built right in. The cartridges in it were super grungy when I picked it up too.
I am totally new to saltwater, but have been reading up on it for a while. Had I been thinking I would have bought a stand that could hold a decent size tank to use as a refugium, but the one I have has a support piece that goes right down the middle of it.
Tonights water change got me to about 35ppm nitrates, almost there!
On a separate note I've noticed that the walls of the tank have started to grow a brownish algea, probably due to the high nitrates. Should I scrub this off immediately or leave it be until I am ready for fish? I know most people consider this a nusiance and get rid of it, but doesn't algea help decompose nitrates?

 

[merredeth]

Originally Posted by compjtc
I moved the tank with enough water in it to keep the gravel wet. The filter that came with the tank is a tetratec power filter (pf500 I think) It's kinda cool becuase it has the heater built right in. The cartridges in it were super grungy when i picked it up too. This whole guy's setup was pretty scummy actually, I am not at all surprised he is closing down.
I am totally new to saltwater, but have been reading up on it for a while. Had I been thinking I would have bought a stand that could hold a decent size tank to use as a refugium, but the one I have has a support piece that goes right down the middle of it.
Tonights water change got me to about 35ppm nitrates, almost there!
On a separate note I've noticed that the walls of the tank have started to grow a grownish algea, probably due to the high nitrates. Should I scrub this off immediately or leave it be until I am ready for fish? I know most people consider this a nusiance and get rid of it, but doesn't algea help decompose nitrates?
What state are you in? What city is your LFS in? This setup sounds familiar.
Denise M.

 

[compjtc]

Originally Posted by Merredeth

What state are you in? What city is your LFS in? This setup sounds familiar.
Denise M.

oh wow. creepy small world we live in! I grew up in Jefferson but am now a student at isu. The lfs is in ft. dodge. you know the place?

 

[merredeth]

Originally Posted by compjtc
oh wow. creepy small world we live in! I grew up in Jefferson but am now a student at isu. The lfs is in ft. dodge. you know the place?
I live in Ft. Dodge & I know Chad very well. My daughter works for him, so he knows me pretty well.
He was supposed to come over tonight to my place with a mandarin but something came up.
How old are you? You probably know of my family.... I have several step-kids and we owned Runway Mobile Sound until about two years ago. We sold it because my business just takes up way too much time. We sold it to a guy in Boone.
Rather than take this thread up with the small world stuff shoot me an email on my gmail account. It is merredeth and you know the extention already since I told you the site to send the email.
VERY small world...
Denise M.

 

[compjtc]

the nitrates are now sitting around 15. I'll do one more water change tomorrow and then I plan on letting it stabalize for about a week, then time to add fish. This is going to be a FOWLR setup and I'm still trying to decide on what to stock it with right now I'm thinking
2 percula clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 firefish goby
1 dwarf lionfish
1 yellow tang
Any thoughts on this list or anything else I should consider?
Oh yeah, in addition to that there are already several snails and crabs in the tank. I think I'll be adding a brittle starfish and a coral banded shirmp as well.

 

[merredeth]

Originally Posted by compjtc
the nitrates are now sitting around 15. I'll do one more water change tomorrow and then I plan on letting it stabalize for about a week, then time to add fish. This is going to be a FOWLR setup and I'm still trying to decide on what to stock it with right now I'm thinking
2 percula clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 firefish goby
1 dwarf lionfish
1 yellow tang
Any thoughts on this list or anything else I should consider?
Oh yeah, in addition to that there are already several snails and crabs in the tank. I think I'll be adding a brittle starfish and a coral banded shirmp as well.
I would bag the tang first off. They should have six feet of surface water to swim in as they love to roam. That would make a tank minimum of 75 gallons. The only thing you could probably get away with in the tang family is a kole tang.
I error on the side of extreme caution always when it comes to stocking a tank. Personally, I would forgo the brittle for awhile as stars really have to have well established tanks. Give your tank at the bare minimum six months (preferrable a year) before introducing a starfish. Since the tank was moved, there is the possibility that you have lost some of the life in the crushed coral if it was eposed to air when transporting the tank due to the sloshing around. While the possibility may be minimal, I would hate to see you waste your money only to experience death.
As for the firefish, you do realize they can jump out of tanks, right?
Denise M.