Supplement Discussion

[snakeblitz33]

Hello guys and gals,
The more research I do in this hobby, the deeper I go down the rabbit hole. There is so much information out there - and misinformation - from beginner to advanced. From Biology to Ecology and beyond, that I honestly don't believe any one person could know everything there is about the world's oceans, or this hobby. The hobby is advancing every day with new discoveries and ideas and ways of doing things, which is helping preserve and maintain our oceans, reefs, and aquariums. Today, I would like to have an in-depth discussion about all of the new supplements out there - not brands, but elements, zooplankton, vitamins and even vodka.
For starters, if you go to the live fish store today, you will probably see a dizzying array of bottles labled Strontium, Magnesium, Iron & Molybidium, Iodine, Calcium, pH Buffer, Carbonate and the list goes on and on. So, how does a hobbyist know where to start and what to add or not add? On the bottle, a pH buffer says "increases pH to 8.*" and does not warn that it is not a permanent solution to a low pH problem. So, in this discussion, I would like for people to contribute what they know about supplements for their aquariums, and if needed back it up with a little published research (following the rules and regulations of this board, of course.).
To answer most of the "How do I balance my aquariums chemicals?" questions that are out there, I will simply state that: By performing a simple water change you will balance your chemicals, replace trace elements, and remove waste from the system. I'll also add a warning: If you can not test for it, do not add it.
If you could when writing please state if it is necessary, if it is additional, what it does, what it doesn't, how to use it and so forth.
Here's a short list of some of the supplements that are out on the market that I know of. There are, of course, probably a lot more then what I can remember. Pick your poison, add to it, and discuss.
Chemical supplements that are/may not be/may be important:
Vitamin C
Vitamin A
Vitamin B complex
Multivitamin liquids
vodka
strontium
iodine
magnesium
iron
molybidium
pH Buffers
Alkalinity/carbonate
calcium
kalkwasser/limewater
Then there are food supplements which are/may not be/may be important:
Phytoplankton
Rotifers
Enriched foods
Brine shrimp
Mysis
Artemia
Bloodworms
Copepods/amphipods
Nori
Cyclopeeze
Oyster eggs
golden pearls
And the lists goes on and on.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Alright. So, I guess no one is interested in contributing. Oh well, at least I tried.

 

[1guydude]

Honestly snake i believe that 70-85% of things out their are just no good....and only lord knows wats really in em! Mostly just phosphates and trates prob lol...
Someone prob had the great idea of them making a lot of money off the diversity of the ocean water....they made up a bunch of "supplements" to sell! I dont think they even know of all the things that make up ocean water! I do believe in water changes however! Bringing back the cal, mag, and iron....iodine and watever the list goes on and on!
I like garlic though....seems to make a fish go nuts and its supposed to increase their immune system as well!

 

[snakeblitz33]

I've been doing a lot of research into dosing vitamin C and there are some pretty amazing results going on.

 

[1guydude]

hmmm....vitaminC ay? I may have to look into this! Ur spiking my intrest! Wats it for? Just good results and if so wat kinda good results?

 

[spanko]

In my reading vitamin C is another of the Carbon additions we can make to a tank to increase the diversity of beneficial bacteria much the same as Vodka - Vinegar - Sugar.

 

[kiefers]

My personal choice.

 

[slice]

The only stuff in a bottle I add is a 2-part such as Seachem Fusion or Three Little Fishies C-balance. I test what these additives do on a weekly basis and adjust dosage accordingly.
Food "supplements" I add from time to time is "Reef Science Plankton", a culture of live copepods and rotifers. For several days after adding a unit of this stuff (in the 'fuge), my coral, especially the
zoas GLOW with appreciation.
I also soak my food with GVH vitamin food soak every so often when I think of it.
As for other supplements such as ph uppers*, I don't want to get trapped into chasing a number on some color chart. If I can't influence pH with natural factors (lighting, macroalgae, surface agitation and the like), well then, the tank inhabitants will just have to "man up" and deal with it.
*for some reason, everytime I read about a pH booster, I remember that old Saturday Night Live commercial spoof advertising "Puppy Uppers" and "Doggie Downers" for pets...

 

[tur4k]

I like to soak food in garlic for a while after adding new fish. I'm not a QTer (gasp). I've had a few ich outbreaks, but haven't lost any fish to it. It's my personal belief that the garlic helps. It may just be superstition, but it makes me feel a little better.
I also dose iron every now and then for my chaetomorpha. I use a random food additive like once a month ( vitachem, selcon, alpha omega). I used to use food additives all the time, but I think it contributed phosphates.

 

[snakeblitz33]

It is my firm belief that if you have macroalgae or even an algae scrubber with hair algae, that you should add an iron supplement. It gets amazing growth results. Since our aquariums are closed systems, some of the trace elements are lacking in abundance. I feel like iron is one of those supplements we should consider adding to boost macro and micro algae growth. As long as you already have a macroalgae refugium or an algae scrubber.
Vitamins are also something that can not be produced in our aquariums. Just like we can not produce our own vitamin C, D, and Bs, the aquarium can not produce it either. Therefore, we as aquarists are responsible for providing these vitamins to our aquatic life. Most of the time these vitamins are in the food that we feed, enriched brine, enriched rotifers, mysis, and some flake foods. However, it is my belief that our aquariums (that contain corals) may greatly benefit by a liquid vitamin supplement that contains a variety of vitamins - A, Bs, C, D, E. I read an article, I wish I could find it now - that an aquarium was regularly vitamin dosed and the corals thrived and grew double their sizes each month. It was amazing! Not only did their sizes double, but the SPS corals remained healthy and thickly fleshed.
Thanks for seeing this thread and contributing to it some. Continue!!!

 

[mr. limpid]

so you are saying we should be grinding up a multi vitamin and adding it to our water change?

 

[bender77]

What do you think of probiotics?. There is a seahorse breeder that swears by them and uses them in his tanks and raising fry. I'm thinking about getting some and trying for all my tanks. This is what he is using
Inve’s Sanolife MIC-F. This product was designed for commercial use in hatcheries.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bender77 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion#post_3420644
What do you think of probiotics?. There is a seahorse breeder that swears by them and uses them in his tanks and raising fry. I'm thinking about getting some and trying for all my tanks. This is what he is using
Inve’s Sanolife MIC-F. This product was designed for commercial use in hatcheries.
Well, If it's working for him then I would say try it... I mean, I don't think it could hurt anything?? Test it and post some results on here.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I also wanted to add on here that there are also substitutions for supplements... For example:
Baking Soda - replaces alkalinity and pH buffers.
Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime - Substitute for kalkwasser (just a little lower grade.)
Epsom Salt - adds magnesium to the water
Vitamin C tablets - when powdered, you can add it to home made foods, replacing Selcon
Each one has it's own set of rules for dosing in your system, but can be a cheap but viable way to add supplements to your tank.

 

[beaslbob]

I use the diy twp part:
magnesium epsom salts, magnesium chloride
calcium calcium chloride
alk baking soda
and a little mrs wages pickling lime for calcium and alk
plus low doses of ferris gluconate (to help keep macro's healthy).
no much of anything else except live phyto and rotifers.
Some methods add nitrates (calcium nitrate for instance) to keep that up and help lower phosphates.
I feel a lot of the vitamins are in the food we add.
Finally water changes will not maintain anything in the tank. But will limit the build up or depletion. but 10% water changes will never maintain conditions to that is in the replacement water.
my .02

 

[bender77]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bender77 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion#post_3420644
What do you think of probiotics?. There is a seahorse breeder that swears by them and uses them in his tanks and raising fry. I'm thinking about getting some and trying for all my tanks. This is what he is using
Inve’s Sanolife MIC-F. This product was designed for commercial use in hatcheries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion#post_3422510
Well, If it's working for him then I would say try it... I mean, I don't think it could hurt anything?? Test it and post some results on here.
I got the probiotics in this week. I'm going to dose them after my next water change.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Does anyone know a good cheap source of calcium chloride that can be found in your home town? I heard that Dow Flake was good, until they changed their formula... and then I heard of pickle crisp being a good food grade source, but I can't get my hands on any... Is there anything else that I am missing? Or, do I just have to buy it at a bulk reef supply?
I'm going to start using two part solutions instead of limewater soon, once I can find a decent source of calcium chloride...

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion#post_3428380
Does anyone know a good cheap source of calcium chloride that can be found in your home town? I heard that Dow Flake was good, until they changed their formula... and then I heard of pickle crisp being a good food grade source, but I can't get my hands on any... Is there anything else that I am missing? Or, do I just have to buy it at a bulk reef supply?
I'm going to start using two part solutions instead of limewater soon, once I can find a decent source of calcium chloride...
try your local redimix concrete places. And ask for calcium chloride. It is used to speed hardening of concrete in cold weather.
the hard thing to find is magnesium chloride which is used as an (expensive) ice melter for driveways and roads. I finally found an industrial chemical supplier here that sold 50 pound bags of magensium chloride with no shipping charges. but ordering on line will result in very high shipping charges which are about the same as the magnesium chloride itself.
so you might check that out in your area.
my .02

 

[saxman]

We use Vits C, B6, B12, and beta glucan for our fish, particularly the vitamins if the fish has gone off its feed for whatever reason. Renee is also about to begin experimenting with Vitamin M. Beta glucan boosts the immune system, and we tend to give this to new acquisitions to stave off any stress-induced maladies.
Waterwise, we always buffer our RO/DI, whether it's top-off or make-up water.

 

[bubblegurl]

What about vodka dosing? I've been reading a lot about this but don't understand-actual vodka like Absolut? Or is there another product and what is this for? It appears to be for nitrate control or aiding coral growth/color but there's not a lot of info I've been able to find?
Thoughts?