Supplement Discussion

flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblegurl http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion#post_3431474
What about vodka dosing? I've been reading a lot about this but don't understand-actual vodka like Absolut? Or is there another product and what is this for? It appears to be for nitrate control or aiding coral growth/color but there's not a lot of info I've been able to find?
Thoughts?
Hello,
Vodka dosing is very dangerous if you don't have a top of the line skimmer and lots of oxygen. There is a product that I use, it's called an Aquaripure filter. You put the vodka into that, it takes care of needing a skimmer but you do need to run an airline NO STONE...just a line to add more oxygen. Put a regulator on the line to keep it from making too much splash creating salt creep. It does control algae and it does eliminate nitrates. I have one on my seahorse, and my reef tank. 0 nitrates mean happy corals...unless you want soft coral like Xenia, they like a little nitrate, but SPS and LPS does not.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
LOL, Bubblegirl, you can dose vodka in a tank. It's a carbon source that (from what I understand) increases the amount of aerobic bacteria which breaks down nitrate and phosphate. It should be noted that you have to have an awesome skimmer before dosing.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion/20#post_3431756
LOL, Bubblegirl, you can dose vodka in a tank. It's a carbon source that (from what I understand) increases the amount of aerobic bacteria which breaks down nitrate and phosphate. It should be noted that you have to have an awesome skimmer before dosing.
Yeah, what he said.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion/20#post_3431756
LOL, Bubblegirl, you can dose vodka in a tank. It's a carbon source that (from what I understand) increases the amount of aerobic bacteria which breaks down nitrate and phosphate. It should be noted that you have to have an awesome skimmer before dosing.
Hmmmm the actual mechanism for Phosphate and Nitrate removal by the bacteria could be worthy of a seperate advanced discussion.
 
michaeltx

michaeltx

Moderator
I just use a good salt brand and have little 2 no problems 99% of what the tank needs is in the salt. Now I have never had a massive SPS or demanding system and that helps greatly. I think once you get into the special needs corals then you have to start dosing with some of the additives and ways to add to the chemicals the tank needs, but in general a simple reef tank IMO does not need most of the additives that are available on the market. but they are a great revenue source for the pet trade.
Mike
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTX http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion/20#post_3432011
I just use a good salt brand and have little 2 no problems 99% of what the tank needs is in the salt. Now I have never had a massive SPS or demanding system and that helps greatly. I think once you get into the special needs corals then you have to start dosing with some of the additives and ways to add to the chemicals the tank needs, but in general a simple reef tank IMO does not need most of the additives that are available on the market. but they are a great revenue source for the pet trade.
Mike
I agree that they are a great revenue source, but so is salt. lol. A high quality salt can cost $100+ a bucket, including shipping. Sometimes it's better to start a tank with the salt you got, and then figure out how to maintain it without many water changes. In a highly demanding system - for those people with massive coralline algae growth, demanding SPS and LPS corals, water changes aren't going to cut it.
I personally supplement calcium, alkalinity, magnesium and trace (with Kents Essentials) to avoid water changes as much as I can. In fact, besides keeping salinity stable, I don't plan on doing any water changes on my 20g nano.
 
bubblegurl

bubblegurl

Member
Thanks Snake, I was only asking out of curiousity, have no plans to dose with vodka, just find the subject interesting.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387650/supplement-discussion/20#post_3432127
I personally supplement calcium, alkalinity, magnesium and trace (with Kents Essentials) to avoid water changes as much as I can. In fact, besides keeping salinity stable, I don't plan on doing any water changes on my 20g nano.
I used to go a month between water changes. it worked for a while but my softies started to take off after 5 months or so, and my sps's growth began to slow. now that i'm focusing more on sps, i do water changes w/ reef crystals every 2 weeks and it seems to be beneficial to my system. once these corals really start taking off, i will have to add a calcium reactor which is fine cause i have one sitting around collecting dust. i agree that if you're not dealing with an sps dominated reef, regular water changes with a good salt mix should be just fine.
snake, you also mentioned that the pH boosters dont say that they DON"T keep pH up. they also don't say they DO. i've learned to question supplements because for the most part, i think they are hogwash.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
i should also say that i've seen incredible tanks that get water changes twice a year. i guess it boils down to the specific systems needs. having a good skimmer will remove salt from any system, so salt will have to be added anyways.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Sure. Salinity has to be adjusted. When dosing a two part solution of calcium and alkalinity, over time there ends up being more chloride ions than sodium ions, the balance needs to be brought back with a water change. When using ca reactors and kalkwasseron stirrers, it doesn't increase salinity over time like a two part solution.
Ill do one or two water changes (maybe more) on my 20g if I have a lot of SPS in my tank.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Looking at the table about 1/3 of the way down the following page the amount of Na in the liquid skimmate as it relates to the natural sea water solids does not show that protein skimming is removing any more salt than is contained in the water it is removing.
Table 1. Results of the elemental analyses of skimmate and food samples.




Element



Solid skimmate (weight %)



Liquid skimmate(weight %)



Natural sea watersolids (weight %)



Food(weight %)







C



22.50



4.50



0.08











N



2.72



0.68



0.04











H



2.37



1.33















S



1.18



2.47



2.6











Ca



10.52



0.60



1.1











Mg



1.99



3.21



3.7











Si



8.94



1.40



< 0.01











Na



3.45



27.25



30.9











Cl



0.40



43.2



55.4











K



0.38



1.17



1.1











Fe



0.93



<0.02



< 0.01











P



0.46



0.08



< 0.01



1.57







I











< 0.01



< 0.1





Cu











< 0.01



< 0.006






Sum



55.84



85.89



95







Here is the article.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature
I also though this to be an interesting conclusion;
"So what, exactly, does skimming do? On the subject of water remediation; the most conservative, permissible (but not compelling!) answer is that skimming removes lots of (living or dead? unknown) microorganisms that populate the aquarium water, and in so doing removes the (organic) carbon, phosphorus, and nitrogen that comprise their biochemical makeup. In addition, dissolved organic compounds may also be removed, but the data do not support the proposition that these dissolved organic species constitute a major amount of the total organics removed. In addition to these water purification functions, skimmers serve to oxygenate the water and facilitate gas exchange in general, which are useful activities independent of organic waste removal."
Note a couple of things here. Skimming removes organic carbon (hmmmm... carbon dosing is a good thing?) and that the skimmers serve to oxygenate the water and facilitate gas exchange. So for those of you that think air bubbling an aquarium does not add oxygen to the water (Snake) here is more proof that it does.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
LOL, God Bless you, Spanko. Thank you for sharing that bit of information.
(but skimmers will remove salt if you are wet skimming)
Oh, and skimmers only remove dissolved organic carbon, what about inorganic carbon? Don't scrubbers remove both dissolved organic and inorganic carbon? Having a skimmer and a scrubber on a system is definitely redundancy, but it seems to make the most sense to me.
 
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