Surplus military vehicles and the police...

darthtang aw

Active Member
No need to speculate. All reports state a gun went off inside the car. Then The individual was shot while fleeing. Unarmed.

At which point did it become legal to shot an unarmed person fleeing?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
No need to speculate. All reports state a gun went off inside the car. Then The individual was shot while fleeing. Unarmed.

At which point did it become legal to shot an unarmed person fleeing?
Really?

All of the reports I'm reading are conflicting and as far as I know the authorities haven't even released that report yet. Only what took place in the convenience store.

At which point does it behove a person who had actually committed a crime moments before and was breaking the law when the cop pulled up to struggle with a law enforcement official responding to a call? Once people go into the fight or flight response then all bets are off. I don't care how well trained they are. Humans will do what comes natural in a situation like that. Fight for their life.

We don't know for sure if the kid was really fleeing or just fell back for a minute and was turned around. Are you privy to facts that the rest of us don't know?

Believe what you want.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Police report has been released.

Body was located well away from the police cruiser. Not one eyewitness indicates anything other than he was fleeing after the initial altercation.

The intial stop wasnt as a robbery suspect. That was released by the police.

I saw the "robbery". That was no robbery. There was no sound so it very well could have been an altercation. At the most it was shoplifting.

Calling it a robbery implies a deadly weapon was involved.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Oh and the video of the robbery and picture of dead body dont match. Body has shoes on, robber has sandals. Body has pants, robber has shorts.

Through this entire thing, the PD has just been playing cover their ass since the beginning and still continue.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Now you're just going off the deep end.

First: I, personally have not mentioned the word Robbery until this post.

Second: Link me to the official report that will be used in court and not a report of the incident that the department has released to the media. I'm not defending the departments handling of the situation. I want to know exactly why a veteran officer with no formal complaints felt the need to shoot this boy.

Third: Don't give me this garbage that no weapon was used in the convenience store. Did you see the size of the kid vs the clerk? You telling me that you don't get a little scared when you're out on safari on one of these little vacations of yours when an elefant comes charging at you? Right! And you just carry that gun around because you've been robbed at gun point to many times before?

The clerk didn't shoot the boy. The cop did. And there was a struggle. Lets not forget that. If you want to talk about the department's handling of the situation then talk about that. But don't blame the officer. This wasn't national news until the family called Sharpton.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
1. Sharpton didnt get involved till day two. So blaming him for the previous riots and such is ridiculous.

2. The police statements are equivalent to the report. The police had been very tight lipped for information so you are telling me what they have disclosed is wrong?

3. The two gentlemen were NOT stopped as suspects to the robbery at the time. The police have disclosed that as well.

4. 6 years on the force is a veteran? The officer is only 28.

I have watched cops struggle with criminals on numerous occasions even to the point where the criminal is running away. The cops dont shoot at them. Why? Because they are unarmed.

If the officer had shot and killed the guy when he was being beaten on, my opinion of this would change. But since Brown was clearly fleeing (look at the distance between the cruiser and the body) i believe this officer is in the wrong.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Bah...It's all just inflated rhetoric.

Just answers me this, Darth...How many times was the boy shot and where? I thought you said gun shots went off in the car as well. Were they all in the back?

Who is your eye whiteness testimony?

Was it a robbery or not?

So you believe what the incident report says? I thought you said it's just been a bunch of cover up. Why would they Damn their own guy and then say he knew nothing of the robbery prior to making contact?

You telling me that a cop left one call, knew there had been a robbery in the area (didn't know it was Brown) But instead decided to focus his attention on a couple of Jay walkers?

You're going to look back on this moment and scoff at yourself for believing you know what happened.

You've seen cops in struggles but have never been a cop in a struggle.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Well ok. But only if there's free pizza involved.

Clemson, you asked if militarizing our domestic forces was a good idea?

My thought is that when you put that type of training that was traditionaly only utilized in war on our streets then this is what happens.

Blame the cops, blame the department's it doesn't matter. Its all a result of policy that's been put into play for the people in the name of national security.

Don't like it? Then lets go back to being a free country again when we actually were making progress in race relations.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Well ok. But only if there's free pizza involved.

Clemson, you asked if militarizing our domestic forces was a good idea?

My thought is that when you put that type of training that was traditionaly only utilized in war on our streets then this is what happens.

Blame the cops, blame the department's it doesn't matter. Its all a result of policy that's been put into play for the people in the name of national security.

Don't like it? Then lets go back to being a free country again when we actually were making progress in race relations.

Actually the blame is on the people. The military style vehicles and gear did not hit the streets until after the looting, rioting, and cocktails were thrown.

Peaceful civil disobediance has been a cornerstone of this nations longevity. Yet every once in a while these situations become violent...and 90% of the time it is the public turning violent.

Like I said, if I was an officer there, a tank sounds like a good place to restore order from.


2quils I would continue the other discussion but you dont seem to be grasping the points.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
I've grasped the points just fine. You keep back peddling on your statements and dodging the questions.

If you'd pull your head out of your bum you'd see I'm with you on a few things. I just don't agree with your rush to judgment yet.

2 (don't threaten me with silence) Quills
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
I've grasped the points just fine. You keep back peddling on your statements and dodging the questions.

If you'd pull your head out of your bum you'd see I'm with you on a few things. I just don't agree with your rush to judgment yet.

2 (don't threaten me with silence) Quills
Based off the evidence given forth i am making an educated assessment off that. I haven't back pedalled on position. I believe the officer was in the wrong.

Here is why.

1. We know the individual was NOT stopped as a suspect of a robbery. The police have released that detail. The robbery occurred exactly 9 minutes before the shooting. So this statement by the pice should be take. At face value. Especially since the shooting occurred well away from the area of the robbery. This didnt make him a suspect right away. As 9 minutes is not enough time to get to the site of the robbery, and review the tapes to see who did the robbery.



2 . The DOJ asked that those same security videos not be released. The police did so anyway. As they had been very tightlipped about this shooting i must assume the release of the security video against the judgement of DOJ was meant to cloud judgement towards the victim. It has done so. Remember the victim has a clean record. Graduated and would be attending a technical college. Not your typical gang banging thug.

3. The police and eyewitnesses there was a scuffle. They differ on how it started. Both confirm one shot occurs inside the squad car. The police have not released how many shots were fired outside the car. Eyewitnesses state several shots. Since the police will not state otherwise i have to assume otherwise. The body was at the coroners office, i am pretty sure a week is sufficient time to figure out how many times he was shot and where. The only reason not to say anything is eyewitness accounts coincide with the evidence. If it didnt an announcement might calm some of this.

4. Location of the body in proximity to the squad car. All agree he was shot while fleeing. Meaning he had separated himself from the officer and was no longer fighting with him. The officer was no longer in immediate danger. The police disclosed he had stolen cigars on his body the discovered after he was dead.

Are the police lying? No. But they arent telling all the info. Which leaves the rest of us to only go off the evidence currently presented. I waited almost a weak before i made a decision on this. So i am not rushing to judgement.

I will agree with you on the media sensationalizing this. They have done a good job of portraying it as a war zone. Which is further from the case. The vast majority of the protesting has been peaceful. I will agree with your worry about the over militarization of the police to a degree. Snipers and and ground officers with ar15s pointed atpeacefully demonstrating protestors gives me pause for concern. But it isnt the equipment they have, it is how they use it.
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Lets see here I have heard from 3 Separate Media outlets that the DOJ wanted the Video sat on so they could maybe make it look like another Travon Martin Case or Rodney King Case. Now the Truth is coming out where the man and he was an ADULT being 18 was a Suspect in a Robbery. Not the kid the MSM was trying to Portray like they were Doing.
 

bang guy

Moderator
If the media speculation (read "fabrications") is correct then this was 2nd degree murder.

I have a gut feeling that what the media wishes happened really was a total fabrication and they are to blame for the riots.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Lets see here I have heard from 3 Separate Media outlets that the DOJ wanted the Video sat on so they could maybe make it look like another Travon Martin Case or Rodney King Case. Now the Truth is coming out where the man and he was an ADULT being 18 was a Suspect in a Robbery. Not the kid the MSM was trying to Portray like they were Doing.
So he changed from sandals to shoes in that nine minute span?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to post picks but a British website has a pic of the body laying in the street. Looks like same clothes and same foot wear to me.
 
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