SWCD or Seaswirls for closed loop?

[debdeb]

I have a 180 that I will be setting up soon. I bought it used from a guy who used it as a FO system. I need to make some changes since I will be making it into a reef tank. It isn't drilled for a closed loop system and I don't think that the two returns from the sump & fuge will provide enough flow. I really don't want a bunch of powerheads making it cluttered looking. We are building it into a wall but it will be viewed from both sides (dining room & living room) so I don't have the luxury of a tank room to hide everything. I have a new Iwaki 40RXLT pump that I can use but I need advise on how to plumb everything up. I don't know where to even begin to drill if that's what needs to be done, and how to best hide/disquise the plumbing from view. I also was wondering if anyone had used either the SCWD wavemaker or Sea Swirls for random flow.

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by debdeb
I have a 180 that I will be setting up soon. I bought it used from a guy who used it as a FO system. I need to make some changes since I will be making it into a reef tank. It isn't drilled for a closed loop system and I don't think that the two returns from the sump & fuge will provide enough flow. I really don't want a bunch of powerheads making it cluttered looking. We are building it into a wall but it will be viewed from both sides (dining room & living room) so I don't have the luxury of a tank room to hide everything. I have a new Iwaki 40RXLT pump that I can use but I need advise on how to plumb everything up. I don't know where to even begin to drill if that's what needs to be done, and how to best hide/disquise the plumbing from view. I also was wondering if anyone had used either the SCWD wavemaker or Sea Swirls for random flow.
How about a top mounted spraybar/scwd set up? *shrug* Seen good results from tanks with SCWD units. There are several old threads on here somewhere.

 

[viper_930]

I'd advise against getting an SCWD. They cut down on the flow a lot, at least 20-30% in addition to the head loss. The barbs are poorly made and IME even with clamps they leak. They're known to be noisy after time too.
You could look into getting a sea squirt or a 4-way from oceans motions.

 

[murph145]

i can probably help ive got a 180 with a closed loop running a oceans motion 4 way full reef tank with sps and all that.... its kinda a complicated thing at midnight lol hit me back tomorrow cuz im tired right now ill post pics tomorrow and give u some info and suggestions

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by ViPeR_930
I'd advise against getting an SCWD. They cut down on the flow a lot, at least 20-30% in addition to the head loss. The barbs are poorly made and IME even with clamps they leak. They're known to be noisy after time too.
You could look into getting a sea squirt or a 4-way from oceans motions.

Viper have you used a SCWD, or are you repeating what you've read? (I know that sounded like I'm being a Smarta$$, plaese don't take it this way, I just can't find a way to say it without it coming out this way) I don't see any problems with the barbs, can you elaborate on this please? SCWD's have very tiny gears in them that make it function, Prefiltering is advised as there are many tiny gears inside it to make it work. An occasional vinegar bath should be part of your tank maintenance if using one. This will most likely eliminate the noise. Yes they do restrict your water flow. IMO it should be part of you return plumbing NOT all of it.
Most of the posts I have read of these units failing is due to poor maintenance. For the money they are a good investment, but if you can afford it, the Ocean Motion would be a better choice.

 

[tree]

I used a SCWD on my 55g tank. It worked perfectly well for that tank though I still needed additional flow as it really did cut down on the flow. I never had a problem with mine leaking or with it making noise. For your size tank I concur with murph in that you'll want an oceans motions unit.

 

[debdeb]

Great input, thanks.
I thought about the top mounted spray bar. I can probably hide the plumbing in the wall. I'll do some research on the Oceans Motions and see if I can work it into the budget.
Murph, I'd really like to see some pictures/diagrams of your set up. I'm going to be using the Oceanic trickle filter that came with the tank. It has a pondmaster 900 pump on it and he gave me a couple more pumps that are around that size. The Iwaki pushes around 1200 at 4' I think but it's not the pressure pump style.

 

[murph145]

ok heres my setup
i have a 180 and i added a closed loop system to the tank to create more flow
i have 2-1" drains one centered on each side of the overflow box in the center of the back panel....
these drains come together in the back and T up to a 2" T PVC pipe then they go straight down to my Sequence Dart pump from there it is shot straight back up in a 1.5" PVC pipe to my OM 4 way then its split 4 ways in 1" PVC piping .... the OM opens and shuts 2 openings at a time to create a random current in the tank
anyways i hope u understood somewhat what i explained heres some pics

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by murph145
ok heres my setup
i have a 180 and i added a closed loop system to the tank to create more flow
i have 2-1" drains one centered on each side of the overflow box in the center of the back panel....
these drains come together in the back and T up to a 2" T PVC pipe then they go straight down to my Sequence Dart pump from there it is shot straight back up in a 1.5" PVC pipe to my OM 4 way then its split 4 ways in 1" PVC piping .... the OM opens and shuts 2 openings at a time to create a random current in the tank
anyways i hope u understood somewhat what i explained heres some pics
Is that essentialy a 4 port SCWD type thing where all the plumbing comes together above your tank?
EDIT misread your post. I see you 'T'd the outputs now after rereading it.

 

[viper_930]

Originally Posted by My Way
Viper have you used a SCWD, or are you repeating what you've read?
I've used it. Actually I'm still using it, just haven't gotten around to removing it. I'm not sure if I want to ditch a wavemaker completely or go with a oceans motions super squirt instead. I agree with you that they're pretty good for the price though, I just don't want people to get disappointed when they hook it up for the first time.
As for the hoses, each of the outputs and the input only have one flange on each, which I think is insufficient. I've tried hooking up hoses to it with clamps and it still leaked. I have seen pics of people running them externally without leaks though, so maybe it's just a small problem with some.

 

[viper_930]

The oceans motions direct flow by using an electric motor to block certain ports, instead of using the force of the water to spin gears.

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by ViPeR_930
I've used it. Actually I'm still using it, just haven't gotten around to removing it. I'm not sure if I want to ditch a wavemaker completely or go with a oceans motions super squirt instead. I agree with you that they're pretty good for the price though, I just don't want people to get disappointed when they hook it up for the first time.
As for the hoses, each of the outputs and the input only have one flange on each, which I think is insufficient. I've tried hooking up hoses to it with clamps and it still leaked. I have seen pics of people running them externally without leaks though, so maybe it's just a small problem with some.
Have you checked the barbs for any leftt over flashing from the molding process? I actualy think the barbs on the SCWD to be pretty beefy. Did you heat the tubinb going over it, so it can conform to the barb well?

 

[dogstar]

I have been useing a SCWD on my 150g for a little over a year now and could not be more happy with it.....
When I first got it, I drilled the inside diameiter of the connectors larger for more flow, trimmed the excess moulding and use a little silicon when I sliped on the hoses and used SS hose clamps....no leaks, so far...

I use a Mag 9.5 as a secondary return from the sump on it and it switches about every 7 seconds....I like the switching motion, very smooth and gentle so it does not spook the fish by any sudden burts of current or noise......there is no noise at all from mine...
I plumbed it with all 3/4 tubeing and 3/4 OTT U tube adjustable spouts with anti-siphon holes.
This is the only device I have ever used so I can not compare it with others only about the price....much cheaper.

 

[hurt]

I've got nothing but love for my SCWD. For $30 you WILL NOT beat it. I've been running mine for almost 2 years now with no problems what so ever. I take it down and soak it in vinegar every 3-4 months and I have never had any problems. It does cut down on flow, but so do 45's, 90's, T's, unions, and head height. I personally don't think the gears slow the device down that much, as much as it being shaped like a T. Either way, a larger pump or pressure rated pump solves that problem very easily. No noise at all from mine.
I agree an ocean motion device is best, but there is a HUGE difference in price between the two.

 

[psusocr1]

i keep reading head height but if you just use a gravity fed siphon system there is no head loss for a cloose loop system at all..

 

[hurt]

My SCWD is on my fuge return, not a CL. Either way, even with a CL, friction(i.e. 90's, 45's, T's) will slow down flow.

 

[sign guy]

Originally Posted by psusocr1
i keep reading head height but if you just use a gravity fed siphon system there is no head loss for a cloose loop system at all..
why wouldn't there be?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by psusocr1
i keep reading head height but if you just use a gravity fed siphon system there is no head loss for a cloose loop system at all..
You know, I've never thought about that. Very good point.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by sign guy
why wouldn't there be?
I believe it's because the gravity pushing down on the return side of the closed loop exerts an equal force on the inlet side of the close loop. All the pump has to do then is create a flow. It would be similar to just running a pump in the bottom of a bucket.

 

[hurt]

You still are going to have friction, unless your closed loop is nothing but straight pvc, which of course could never happen.