Take 2!

[ofalegend]

Hi all! It's been quite a while (I registered for this forum in 2002), but after a failed attempt 8 years ago I'm going back at it again. I'm a bit older now and finished college so I have more resources to devote to properly setting up and maintaining a 55gallon FOWLR. I do have a few questions though if someone has the time or inclination...
What's the current consensus on trickle filters? Here's what I'm looking at from my local LFS, who are well established and very reputable, always had an excellent experience with this LFS (they're local, been in business 20+ years, have incredible display tanks and livestock selection, quarantine all their new arrivals, offer a guarantee, etc). Picture is here, with details below:

Dimensions: 24 x 9.5 x 14 & fittings
Inlets: Single 1
Media capacity: 3.5+ gal
Recommended Flow Rates: 500-800gph
Pre-filter drip plate with safety overflow
Secondary sponge filter
Carbon wall support rails built in
Sponge partition wall for sponge placement in forward sump or for dual sponge configuration
Special high surface area biomedia
Ample sump area for reactors, skimmers and heaters
Water Level Indicator
Low sump height for easy cleaning & maintenance
Contains:
- #AL2205 - EIM Siphon Box
1 - #SIC106 - Syncra 2.0 Aquarium pump 7.9 ft head 568gph
1 - #AL3025 - EIM Return
1- #5095 3/4" 90 Combo
2- #5126 3/4" Clamps
Probably more expensive than DIY, but I think this time around I'd rather just take my time and buy a couple of pieces a week until I'm set up. I'm not in any hurry to add fish, though I do still have the very first saltwater fish I ever bought...a percula clownfish...she's 8 years old now! After I broke down the 55, I put her in a smaller tank and she's still thriving.
Ok, so thoughts on the filter (or a DIY sump)? I really want the best possible filtration for a heavy fish load after the tank is well established.
I'm going with RO water from Wal-Mart for now until I buy a RO unit. Will be getting the aragonite sand from the LFS, approximately 2" sand bed with dead rock and will seed with LR, poundage depending on the cost at the LFS. That was another big issue last time I think... crushed coral then play sand with tap water.
Another question, should I invest in a protein skimmer even with a FOWLR? Every thing I've read indicates a heavy fish load can benefit from a protein skimmer even if its not a reef tank. Would the protein skimmer, thermometer, etc., go in the trickle filter I'm looking at above?
I've read through the "New Hobbyist" threads, and I do have a good basic understanding, but wanted advice from the experts on that particular filter, or if another filtration method (sump, canister?) would be better for a 55gallon.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Michael

 

[meowzer]

Welcome back Michael......You can post a picture of the product, but please do not post other sites...
I am not familiar with the product itself, BUT if you have the means look into a sump/refugium.....Do you have the tank yet? Can you get it drilled?

 

[ofalegend]

My apologies for posting the link. I've edited my post to include a picture and information instead. I've had the tank from 8 years ago, been in dry storage, so I'm hoping it will be OK (will replace it with a 75g if the 55g is leaking), speaking of, what's the "life expectancy" of a glass tank anyway? Should I consider a new one since this one is 8 years old or will it still be OK as long as the silicone isn't dry/cracking and it isn't leaking?).
If I do the sump/refugium, I'll probably go with a 20g Long tank if I can fit it under the stand, but I guess my confusion is on which is better and why? Not entirely familiar with the difference between a trickle filter and a sump/refugium. I mean I know the basics...the trickle filter has media in it (bio balls, foam, etc), and the sump/refugium has live sand, live rock/rubble, macro algae instead. Is this the primary difference between the two?

 

[meowzer]

The item you have pictured there sure looks like my sump/fuge haha
except mine has 3 sections, one was for a protein skimmer.....I removed the bio-balls (or whatever that is in your picture) and made it into a refugium (center section), so yes....it has sand and some live rock rubble..and the third section was for my return pump....
I would just check all the seams really good....fill it with water, and just watch it....

 

[mr. limpid]

welcome back
You get different opinions about Bio balls I personal like them as long as you rinse them at least once a year. I have a similar type of unit on my 135gal. for the past 5 years works great. As for the protein skimmer I say the more filtration is always better for your fish, so yes on the skimmer. As for your tank if it doesn't leak then it will work, but test it first. Meowzer is correct you should look into getting your tank drill for the over flow, never cared for the overflow box, power outages causes major problems.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OfALegend http:///forum/thread/382734/take-2#post_3342318
Hi all! It's been quite a while (I registered for this forum in 2002), but after a failed attempt 8 years ago I'm going back at it again. I'm a bit older now and finished college so I have more resources to devote to properly setting up and maintaining a 55gallon FOWLR. I do have a few questions though if someone has the time or inclination...
What's the current consensus on trickle filters? Here's what I'm looking at from my local LFS, who are well established and very reputable, always had an excellent experience with this LFS (they're local, been in business 20+ years, have incredible display tanks and livestock selection, quarantine all their new arrivals, offer a guarantee, etc). Picture is here, with details below:

Dimensions: 24 x 9.5 x 14 & fittings
Inlets: Single 1
Media capacity: 3.5+ gal
Recommended Flow Rates: 500-800gph
Pre-filter drip plate with safety overflow
Secondary sponge filter
Carbon wall support rails built in
Sponge partition wall for sponge placement in forward sump or for dual sponge configuration
Special high surface area biomedia
Ample sump area for reactors, skimmers and heaters
Water Level Indicator
Low sump height for easy cleaning & maintenance
Contains:
- #AL2205 - EIM Siphon Box
1 - #SIC106 - Syncra 2.0 Aquarium pump 7.9 ft head 568gph
1 - #AL3025 - EIM Return
1- #5095 3/4" 90 Combo
2- #5126 3/4" Clamps
Probably more expensive than DIY, but I think this time around I'd rather just take my time and buy a couple of pieces a week until I'm set up. I'm not in any hurry to add fish, though I do still have the very first saltwater fish I ever bought...a percula clownfish...she's 8 years old now! After I broke down the 55, I put her in a smaller tank and she's still thriving.
Ok, so thoughts on the filter (or a DIY sump)? I really want the best possible filtration for a heavy fish load after the tank is well established.
I'm going with RO water from Wal-Mart for now until I buy a RO unit. Will be getting the aragonite sand from the LFS, approximately 2" sand bed with dead rock and will seed with LR, poundage depending on the cost at the LFS. That was another big issue last time I think... crushed coral then play sand with tap water.
Another question, should I invest in a protein skimmer even with a FOWLR? Every thing I've read indicates a heavy fish load can benefit from a protein skimmer even if its not a reef tank. Would the protein skimmer, thermometer, etc., go in the trickle filter I'm looking at above?
I've read through the "New Hobbyist" threads, and I do have a good basic understanding, but wanted advice from the experts on that particular filter, or if another filtration method (sump, canister?) would be better for a 55gallon.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Michael
Welcome back Michael.......Glad you have a trusted LFS close to you.....
I'll comment on the filter you posted above, and I would say that it is not what you truly want....I say that for several reasons...1 I'm curious what the price is on the above mentioned unit? Another issue with that type of filtration system you have listed is, that you are going to have to be diligent as far as keeping all that filter media clean. This filter system isn't self cleaning and you'll find quite easily that you will spend tons of time keeping all those sponges and what not clean to prevent issues, but most people have gotten away from this style of filtration for that single issue of them being a nitrate factory, and most have gone away from this style to the more traditional sump setup.
You also mentioned about using RO water from Walmart....Not a bad thing, but you also pointed out taking your time and doing this thing right this time around....I would suggest instead of using Walmart for your water source to make the investment and purchase an RO/DI unit. These units aren't super expensive, and will pay for itself shortly........
Again looking back at filtration system you recommended you'd be better served looking more at the standard sump and protein skimmer. These 2 items would better serve you than what was listed above. I'm curious on the price of what you where quoted for the above to compare it to a quality sump, and I would almost bet you could easily do a DIY quality sump to house a good skimmer and fit your needs.....
A good thread for you to check out is Flowers Sump Build in the Lighting and Equipment forum here....It will show you alot of what your probably looking for.....Again Welcome!!!!

 

[acrylic51]

I'll also comment on the drilling of the tank.....Overflow boxes are perfectly fine, and they are no better or safer than a drilled tank....The advantage of a drilled tank????? Easier to plumb!!!!!!

 

[2quills]

Hi, there...welcome back to the hobby.
I'd say that most people in the saltwater side of the home aquarium hobby have moved on from trickle filters into sump and or sumps along with refugiums. I think alot depends on your ultimate plan for the tank is as far as livestock and or corals. Even fish only systems can benefit from a protien skimmer since alot of the protiens in the water come from fish and whatever else is in there. Reduce nutriends usually = less algae. Same thing with a refugium. Maybe not necissary but can be a great benefit in the fight to keep nutriends low as well as help supply your tank with live food such as pods.
I'll always be a fan of a drilled tank simply for the fact of not having to start or maintain a syphon as you do with an overflow box. It's more of a convenience than anything but one that I'd gladly have over an overflow box anyday. Coming from someone who has drilled a tank and seen others here on this site (even beginners like me) drill their tanks with much success. If you are willing to do it then I say go that route instead. You might not be much safer as there are always risks involved with keeping a glass cage full of water in your house. But you'll be happier. JMO

 

[ofalegend]

Thanks everyone for responding! To address the question of cost, the system above (including the pump and siphon box) is $295.00-$355.00, depending on size (one is rated up to 100 gallons, the slightly more expensive one is rated up to 130).
If I go with a sump, I seen several DIY threads (and a couple of good youtube videos), and I'm comfortable with the skill level involved in making it, looks simple enough. So basically if I use a 20L for a sump, it'd be divided into the typical 3 chamber setup, with the first chamber (where the water flows in) with a protein skimmer, the middle chamber/refuguim would have what? 5" of sand, live rock rubble, macro algae)?, then the third section would be only water and the return pump? Thats it? A box store has a 20L on sale for $38.99 right now, so I could go that route.
Would this be as or more effective than the trickle filter? Minimizing maintenance would be a great thing (though I have no illusions, I know there is definitely maintenance/monitoring/upkeep).
~M

 

[acrylic51]

Cool deal!!! I think you'd be better served with a sump vs the trickle filter. I offer a couple other suggestions. I'd look to squeeze as big ao a tank as possible under your stand as possible. A 20 gallon tank once complete doesn't leave a whole lot of room. Any pics of the tank and stand? My other suggestion is you check out melevsreef.com. This site will easily explain a sump/Fuge as your proposing and will give detailed explanation as to why the order you listed your sump design as not as effective. The middle chamber should be your return section with the Fuge on the opposite end of the intake/skimmer area.

 

[acrylic51]

To answer your last question YES the sump is more effective than the trickle/wet/dry setup.

 

[gill again68]

+1
The order would be wrong in the fact that your flow through the fuge to supply the return would have to be very high. As mentioned melevesreef explains this and shows very nice designs. But it should be first section (down pipe flow, skimmer) second section (return pump) third section (refugium). Now when you plumb the down pipe you can divert the water to supply the fuge. This allows you to get control over the flow in the fuge as well as keep good supply to the return pump. Good luck with the project and please post pics of your progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382734/take-2#post_3342676
Cool deal!!! I think you'd be better served with a sump vs the trickle filter. I offer a couple other suggestions. I'd look to squeeze as big ao a tank as possible under your stand as possible. A 20 gallon tank once complete doesn't leave a whole lot of room. Any pics of the tank and stand? My other suggestion is you check out melevsreef.com. This site will easily explain a sump/Fuge as your proposing and will give detailed explanation as to why the order you listed your sump design as not as effective. The middle chamber should be your return section with the Fuge on the opposite end of the intake/skimmer