Tangs, tangs, tangs. HELP!

[Zeffa]

I'm ready to pull my hair out on this one.
Not new to fishkeeping (20+ years in the hobby) but I'd call myself little more than a beginner in saltwater (roughly 2-3 years general experience).

I work in a retail store as the fish gal, and it's corporate run so there's only so much I have control over. This is what I'm working with:

•Approx 180 gallons of tank space (separated into 12x 15 gallon sections) with a 25-35 gallon sump.
•Specific gravity 1.020
•Stable 76F.
•Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate <10ppm.
•Fricktons of live rock. I couldn't tell you how many pounds, but I keep my tanks loaded with the stuff.
•Circulation pumps in most tanks
•Feed Omega One flakes and pellets with garlic, F/T brine and mysis, seaweed (all daily)

Here's my problem. I keep losing tangs and I can't understand it. Most of my other fish do well. I'm humble enough to admit that I am still learning saltwater. I have trouble with royal grammas, some clownfish (Ocellaris and maroon give me the most trouble. Generally the designers, tomatoes, and perculas do fine.)

The tangs come in, they eat, they swim, they hide, they flit about, they graze, they seem happy as clams and then they come down with severe ich (or at this point I'm wondering if it's actually marine velvet? The last couple have looked WAY worse than just ich.) Look, I'm SW stupid, OK? But I'm trying. So I'm here.

It is my understanding that the suppliers ship the fish in a lower salinity than what I run my system at. I run my system at 1.020 because I have to keep corals in there, too, and my approved range is only 1.017-1.022. It's really limiting. The way I'm acclimating right now is about a 15 minute float then dump them in since they're shipped to us.

What can I do better? What can I adjust? Can my corals (soft and hard) thrive at lower salinity levels so that I can stop stressing the tangs so much right off the bat? Any and all answers, tips, suggestions appreciated.

 

[silverado61]

Do you regularly test the suppliers water to see what gravity they send new stock to you in? If there's even a subtle difference between their gravity and yours just tossing them in without acclimating them to your salt gravity would send your new stock into stress. Tangs have a thinner slime coat than other fish so Ick can penetrate easier and are more susceptible to stress which lowers their immune system. What temp do you keep your community tanks at? What filtration equipment do you have in the sump? Do you use a UV light? When you do water changes, how much and how often do you change and what type of water do you use (tap or RODI)? How often do you test the display and what brand test kit do you use? What are the results of the last test? Exact numbers please. I'm hoping you keep records.

Sorry about all the questions but the answers can help quite a bit.

 

[jay0705]

Agree w the acclimation issue. Bc your limited, cut the bags open and let them float. This is after you temp acclimate. Cutting them will allow the water to mix more slowly then just dumping.
The corporate BS is just the reason i won't buy from chain stores.

 

[Zeffa]

I test twice weekly and have stable results recorded. My results are almost always the same. Today's test results:
Temp: 76F
Specific gravity: 1.020
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: <10

I do water changes once or twice weekly just depending on how much time I have and what my bio load looks like any given week. I'm the only one who really works back in fish so all the maintenance and customer service falls on me and sometimes I just don't have time for 2x weekly. I'm probably pulling about 50-60 gallons out in a water change.

I test with API strips and a liquid nitrate test. My strips are never accurate on nitrate. I use a refractometer to test SG.

We run a Marineland filter in the sump with bio wheel. We run a protein skimmer. We run a UV sterilizer that needs a lamp change bad (I've been begging). I use Microbe-Lift Xtreme when I do my water changes at double dose for benefits to slime coat. Unfortunately we do not have RODI. We only run a micron filter and I can do nothing to change that.

Are you saying just cut the bags after a 15 minute temp acclimation and just let the bags go on their way until the fish find their way out instead of dumping?
I would love to drip but I'm not sure how practical that is given my situation. Some days I have the time to do it, some days I don't.

I haven't tested the water the fish come in for some time but as of recall I think they come in 1.016-1.018. I could keep my tanks at 1.017-1.018 however I am concerned for the corals at that low of salinity.

Thank you guys so much for the response.

 

[jay0705]

Yes, a lfs i go to does this. I would never personally do it, but your already mixing the water.
My guess tho is there is some type of pathogen in your tanks. Tangs due to very little slime coat are usually the first effected

 

[silverado61]

Any API test kits are at the bottom of the list as far as accuracy in testing. API test strips are intended for spot checks to indicate that there is a problem and shouldn't be counted on as far as actual test results go.

In regards to your salinity your caught between a rock and a hard place. Your gravity really should be 1.025 but corporate won't let you go above 1.022. Your supplier varies between between 1.017 and 1.018 but you can't take the time to properly acclimate because your only one person and time is limited. I feel for you, I really do.

If you've been keeping track of your total losses as far as livestock maybe you can use that evidence to loosen corporates strangle hold and at least get you a new UV bulb and a proper RO/DI unit.

 

[Zeffa]

My losses (shrink) are some of the best in our district. My percentages are sitting at roughly 20-25% shrink, if that means anything to you. I try to not keep too many tangs or angels in our system because, as you have said, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with my salinity and it just isn't fair to the fish to get them in just to kill them. It'd be nice if i could get them to live. I'll try a slower acclimation. My only concern is ammonia buildup in the bag due to shipping. Is this really a huge concern or is it worth taking my chances with?

 

[Zeffa]

In regards to pathogens, I'm terribly
Iimited in what I can do for that as well. I am allowed to freshwater dip (which thus far has been unsuccessful for me), and I am allowed to use Artemiss and Herbtana, neither of which I really have an opinion on. Has anyone used this stuff? Should I even bother trying that stuff since I have to remove carbon and turn off protein skimmer and UV sterilizer with those products? If I can't prevent the ich or velvet in the first place, what's my best course of action given my options?

 

[silverado61]

My losses (shrink) are some of the best in our district. My percentages are sitting at roughly 20-25% shrink, if that means anything to you. I try to not keep too many tangs or angels in our system because, as you have said, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with my salinity and it just isn't fair to the fish to get them in just to kill them. It'd be nice if i could get them to live. I'll try a slower acclimation. My only concern is ammonia buildup in the bag due to shipping. Is this really a huge concern or is it worth taking my chances with?

I managed a restaurant for a few years so I do understand shrink although we called it waste.

Maybe they (bosses) would let you set up a separate quarantine tank labeled "Not For Sale" just for Tangs and Angels. A 30g would work. Just a simple tank with a HOB filter, minimal lighting, heater, a bare bottom with a few pieces of PVC for them to hide in and feel safe. That way you could take your time acclimating them and keep them away from the general population till your sure they aren't carrying any parasites. Then you could add them one at a time as you need them to the community tanks and offer them up for sale.

Just a thought.

 

[Zeffa]

It's a good thought. Maybe with persistence they would let me set up some kind of QT away from the main display. As of now, I can shut off one of the 15 gallon sections of the main display and use that, but the paperwork is mental and long-term they probably wouldn't like it too much. Proper QT tank is absolutely something to push for. Thank you.

In the meantime should I bother trying to at least drip the tangs and angels that come in and if so for how long? 3-4 hours at 1 drip per second?

 

[silverado61]

It's a good thought. Maybe with persistence they would let me set up some kind of QT away from the main display. As of now, I can shut off one of the 15 gallon sections of the main display and use that, but the paperwork is mental and long-term they probably wouldn't like it too much. Proper QT tank is absolutely something to push for. Thank you.

In the meantime should I bother trying to at least drip the tangs and angels that come in and if so for how long? 3-4 hours at 1 drip per second?

It should be worth the effort. Increase the drip and you can cut that time back to 1-1/2 to 2hrs.

 

[Zeffa]

Again thank you so much for your input. I wasn't sure if I was just really awful at SW or if I was just screwed by my employer. I'm starting to feel like it's not me that's the problem and I really do appreciate that!

Do you have any advice for keeping bubble tip anemones thriving?

 

[silverado61]

Anemones really need an established tank. If I was in your position (and thank God I'm not. I would hate having my hands tied in your line of work) I would sell them on a per-order basis and make sure to ask if their tank is at least 9 moths old. But that's just me.

 

[Zeffa]

I can absolutely do that! I like having a couple different anemones on display and have decent luck with carpets, mini carpets, long tentacles, and Haitians. I have trouble with condies and bubble tips. The bubbles attach to a rock right off the bat and do ok for a while but suffer long term. I wonder if I have too much circulation for them.

 

[jay0705]

Generally nems like the current. Lighting is the biggest issue w them