Tank Cracked and the Worst Has Happened

notsonoob

Member
If they don't cover the tank I'd leave the insurance out of it. Could jump you to high risk and higher premiums...
Last thing you want in Florida
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Trust me they won't cover the tank.......You might get lucky and get them to cover some equipment damage if any was done.......
Honestly this is an excellent time for everyone to actually pull their insurance policies and "really" read what is covered......I bet most if not all say explictedly that livestock, dogs, cats and such are no way in *ell covered.....Kinda makes you wonder where all you money does go though........
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by acrylic51
Trust me they won't cover the tank.......You might get lucky and get them to cover some equipment damage if any was done.......
Honestly this is an excellent time for everyone to actually pull their insurance policies and "really" read what is covered......I bet most if not all say explictedly that livestock, dogs, cats and such are no way in *ell covered.....Kinda makes you wonder where all you money does go though........

I just re-did my homeowners insurance a few weeks ago. For reference, this is State Farm.
I specifically asked them about coverage surrounding the tank. We also talked about the possibility of the tank failing, exactly the scenario in this thread.
What I was told is that should that happen, the tank, any damaged equipment, and damage to the house and inanimate objects within, such as my washer and dryer and network servers in the room under the tank would all be covered, but any loss of livestock would NOT be covered.
State farm also has an "exotic animal" policy you can get as a rider, but they actually called the main office and was told that the policy covers exotic birds, reptiles, etc but NOT fish.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Yeah I had State Farm when my Oceanic 150 gave way at the seam......Oceanic took care of the tank, but the insurance covered my equipment damage, but I was alittle ignorant on the coverage, and they quickly pointed out what it didn't cover.....Needless to say they don't insure my new house since it was built........
 

turningtim

Active Member
Sorry to hear about you problem and I don't want to add fuel to the fire. But didn't you say you ran a micro-lam across the floor joist for extra support and used molly posts to support the beam? I assume you placed the molly's on the slab floor in the basement?
Heres the problem, the slab floor is independent of the house foundation. So basically it floats in place over the footer and inside the foundation walls. If (big if) the basement floor moved up or foundation moved down it could easily have racked the floor a caused undue pressure on the tank/stand. This process could have been very slow and the carpet could have been able to help with the adjustment but when it got to severe it cracked.
Slab floors are NOT structural! They are meant to move. When adding a structural element to a floor above you have to cut out the slab and place a footer (24"x24"x12") under the slab floor and then fill in. You can also sister (double them up) floor joist across the span making sure they rest on the foundation and structural beam which have footers under the slab.
Again not saying thats what happened but with a new house settling and shifting are not out of the question.
I worked for a foundation company and we put in over 5000 residential wall foundations, post tension slabs and flat work. We placed over 1.5 million in mud ever year and boy could I tell you some strange stories!
Anyway hope this helps and don't give up!
Tim
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim
Sorry to hear about you problem and I don't want to add fuel to the fire. But didn't you say you ran a micro-lam across the floor joist for extra support and used molly posts to support the beam? I assume you placed the molly's on the slab floor in the basement?
Heres the problem, the slab floor is independent of the house foundation. So basically it floats in place over the footer and inside the foundation walls. If (big if) the basement floor moved up or foundation moved down it could easily have racked the floor a caused undue pressure on the tank/stand. This process could have been very slow and the carpet could have been able to help with the adjustment but when it got to severe it cracked.
Slab floors are NOT structural! They are meant to move. When adding a structural element to a floor above you have to cut out the slab and place a footer (24"x24"x12") under the slab floor and then fill in. You can also sister (double them up) floor joist across the span making sure they rest on the foundation and structural beam which have footers under the slab.
Again not saying thats what happened but with a new house settling and shifting are not out of the question.
I worked for a foundation company and we put in over 5000 residential wall foundations, post tension slabs and flat work. We placed over 1.5 million in mud ever year and boy could I tell you some strange stories!
Anyway hope this helps and don't give up!
Tim
Water, you had also mentioned that the tank was installed 4 years ago, into your house when it was new.
All new homes go through quite a bit of structural settling... to the tune of sometimes inches.
When I think about this, I think Tim makes a great point here... if the tank's weight was carried down to the floor by the mollies, there could have very easily been a settling differential between the base of the mollies and the footings under the load bearing walls the end of those floor joists rested on.
In short, it occurs to me that the both the youth of the home and the reinforcements you did below may have played a part in this, even though such seems to contradict common logic.
In an older home where most of the settling had already occured, this may not have been as big of an issue. Granted, the slab floors will always move to some extent, but most structural engineers will tell you that buildings move the most in their first few years.
 

waterworld

Member
I have to say that I am impressed with the reply and willingness to help from Central Aquatics. Aqueon / Central Aquatics has either bought All Glass Aquariums, AGA, or had some sort of a name change. I had e-mailed my pictures and a link to this post and I had a reply from Brian Woodruff of their Product Lines Tech Support Dept.
He had reviewed the pictures and also read this post and replied via e-mail and I quote.
"This is definitely a pressure crack. It's a classic profile of
one. The cause will be a little harder to determine. Considering the
amount of time it was in one spot, points to either the floor or
something on the stand shifting. I doubt the carpet had any blame in it."
End of quote.
Again I do appreciate the time on their part towards my questions.
So at this point I am feeling less that the carpet is at issue, not sure I would set a tank on carpet again, but I think after digesting all of the input from all here that it is certainly a settling issue.
TurningTim, You make good points regarding the basement slab and sistering floor joist may help as well. Do do you have any thoughts on installing bracing to the basement floor without cutting out a section and pouring a footer? Would placing my jack-posts to the support beam on a wider base help? Not sure that it would. I am also feeling that maybe most of the settling in the house has happened. It is going to be 5 years old here in a few months.
SCSInet, I see what you are saying that the placing of the reinforcments may have been the root of some of this issue. Have you placed any types of bracing under your tanks?
I am still debating what to do at his point on almost an a hour to hour basis as far as if I will do another tank. My major hesitation is how to solve this so it will not happen again. My wife is very supportive but a second time would be pushing my luck!
WW
 

scsinet

Active Member
I have just completed structural bracing for a 180g tank I put in my dining room.
In Georgia, houses with basements are built by framing out a layout in the basement and building the first floor on top of that. The walls in the basement are load bearing. My house is no different.
What I did was temporarily shore up the floor near a load bearing wall under where the tank was to go, and I removed the wall. I then sistered up additional 2x10 floor joists under the tank, and rebuilt the wall. By doing this I don't have any structural supports where there was no structural support previously, and nothing resting where no footers lay underneath. My house is also 10 years old so most if not all of the structural settling should have already taken place.
The tank sits unfortunately parallel to the floor joists, but the way I placed the tank, a load bearing wall sits directly beneath the tank, with (4) doubled up 2x10 floor joists running 60" to the next load bearing wall, so by my estimation I'm in pretty good shape.
 

mie

Active Member
I would be a little cautious on filing any claim with my homeowners under 5,000 dollars. Most companies have a hidden motto "use it and lose it".
 
J

jrthomas40

Guest
Originally Posted by SCSInet
I have just completed structural bracing for a 180g tank I put in my dining room.
In Georgia, houses with basements are built by framing out a layout in the basement and building the first floor on top of that. The walls in the basement are load bearing. My house is no different.
What I did was temporarily shore up the floor near a load bearing wall under where the tank was to go, and I removed the wall. I then sistered up additional 2x10 floor joists under the tank, and rebuilt the wall. By doing this I don't have any structural supports where there was no structural support previously, and nothing resting where no footers lay underneath. My house is also 10 years old so most if not all of the structural settling should have already taken place.
The tank sits unfortunately parallel to the floor joists, but the way I placed the tank, a load bearing wall sits directly beneath the tank, with (4) doubled up 2x10 floor joists running 60" to the next load bearing wall, so by my estimation I'm in pretty good shape.
man i didnt understand anything this post said...i think my tank is running parallel with the floor as well but only thing i have under there is crawl space but i want to put some support under it some how
 

drewdog82

Member
I am now getting nervous. I'm moving into a house shortly. I was going to put a 180 up in my living room, which is the bottom level of the house....no basement. I'm pretty sure that it is slab, with carpet ontop. Should I be worried? Or is there something I should do?
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by jrthomas40
man i didnt understand anything this post said...i think my tank is running parallel with the floor as well but only thing i have under there is crawl space but i want to put some support under it some how
Which part didn't you understand?
In many parts of the country, in homes with basements, there are one or more steel beams running across the basement to support the structure overhead. Those support the first floor. The second floor of the house is supported by the walls built on the first floor.
In GA (and probably other areas down here), the basement looks more like the first floors. There are no main beams running anywhere... instead, they build walls in the basement to support the above floor. So when they pour footings for the house, the footings look like the blueprint to a house... in addition to the footings around the perimeter basement wall, there are also footings laid out in the pattern of the walls.
What I'm saying is that I set my tank over one of these walls, and added additional joists under where the tank went. I attached a professional-looking graphic to illustrate. There are 3 walls, all load bearing, with the tank centered over the middle one. Before I placed the tank, I removed the center wall, so I could add the 3 additional 2x10s (shown in blue), then rebuilt the wall. So the tank sits directly on top of one load bearing wall, and two others are 5' from that in each direction.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by drewdog82
I am now getting nervous. I'm moving into a house shortly. I was going to put a 180 up in my living room, which is the bottom level of the house....no basement. I'm pretty sure that it is slab, with carpet ontop. Should I be worried? Or is there something I should do?
If there is no basement, then it's almost definitely a slab.
There shouldn't be any issue placing a tank on a slab floor, even a new slab floor.
 

drewdog82

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
If there is no basement, then it's almost definitely a slab.
There shouldn't be any issue placing a tank on a slab floor, even a new slab floor.
So if it is slab, even though it is carpeted, I shouldn't have any issues with unevenly distributed weight???
 

turningtim

Active Member
WW, The best way would be todo what SCSI did. But you won't need to build a wall.
I would guess that with the home being only 5 years old that you have TJI (OSB/LAMS in the shape of an I-beam)joists? Is the tank perpendicular to the joists, I'd imagine b/c you placed a beam under there? How far is the span from foundation wall to center beam or other foundation wall?
I would do this. Sister the beams with correct size dimensional lumber. Not sure what the TJI measures b/c it will vary due to the span it crosses. Try and span the whole length with one piece of lumber. You can seam it with an additional spline but try and get it with one piece. It won't be fun trying to get the pc into place but it will be worth it. Use construction adhesive on the top(floor) and the side(joist). Use a floor jack and 2x4 to get it up there tight. Don't use so much pressure that you move the floor upstairs. Also be careful b/c there will be tension on the jack/jig and it could fly out and hit you in the head. Just trust me on that one! Pre-drill pilot holes and use deck screws to attach to the joist. I would say 2.5" screws would do the trick. Coat the threads with bar soap. This will lube the

[hr]
and it will never back out!
To make placing the sisters you may notch out the ends a bit to accommodate the foundation. Then use metal (Not wood) shims after you apply pressure with the jack. Don't take to much out, maybe 1/2". It will make it easier to get in there.
Or you could place addition joists in between the existing ones. So you would have 8" or 12" on center (don't know if they're 16" or 24" OC).
In either case you won't need any more support from a cross beam. And your right anything on that floor (w/o cutting) won't help. The joists will now move with the house so even if it does move the tank and floor will also.
You would be surprised at the pressure that a floor can put on a structure. Here in CO we have to use floating (slip joint) walls for basement finish b/c of the soils here. Its probably not that extreme in your area. And I really can't say that this is the problem with your tank cracking.
HTH
Tim
 

ketill

Member
Acrylic my friend. My 180 from seaclear took a fork lift fork to it made a good gouge but did not break. GL
 

yannifish

Active Member
Ok, my 55g is not level, one end is higher than the other, I'm not sure how much, I just know that when I'm doing a water change when on side when the top frame hides the surface line, you can just barely see it on the other. It is on carpet. Should I be worried? Sould I move all the stuff in my stand to the other side to see if I can make it even?
BTW, sorry to hear about your tank waterworld, that is my worst nightmare!
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Man I am so sorry to hear about your tank and the work ahead of you to regroup. We as humans regroup rebuild and forge ahead. Good luck with your tanks
But I have to ask…. Can we let this thread die. If my wife sees and reads this, she’ll flip and my tanks will have to go.
 

shu-perman

Member
Originally Posted by Waterworld
I will get a straight edge and check the stand for flatness etc tomorrow. I have made contact with a person at AGA for their review of the pictures. They were very willing to help me and replied promptly to my request. So far so good with AGA and it will be good to get their thoughts.
My insurance company will cover the carpet past my deductible but not the tank itself. Coverage would be for the damage only and not the breakage.
We will see what develops tomorrow.
WW
I'm a contractor and know a little about leveling things...
The way you want to check it is cross leveling...front left corner to back right corner....then the other way...you're 24" carpenters level also could be out of calibration too...I would also check the tank again once you set it on the stand
before and after water in installed...something that I haven't read yet is the floor could have been sagging(even slightly) due to the weight....this is why I'm suggesting to check after your total weight load has been established (less LR if you don't want to deal w/ it that far)...
When I was a kid I had that same crack in my 125...tank was fine...went to take a shower...came back and tank was empty on the floor...my 125 was on a joisted floor too...
Sorry for your loss and suggest acrylic for your next tank
 

dingo0722

Member
I have always placed a 3/8" neoprene foam sheet or polystyrene sheet under my aquariums to account for any changes or deviations from flatness in the stand. The fracture that you have is most likely a result of uneven loading on the corners of the aquarium. Over time a material phenomena occurs called creep deformation. This is a result of force, temperature and time. Glass, while brittle is also highly elastic. It will accommodate loaded deflections for a period of time, but as the material creeps, because it is still liquid, stress concentrations will result. Once the stress reached the maximum stress of the glass a fracture will propagate across the pane. This is why your aquarium was operational for 4 years then a catastrophic failure resulted.
On another note, some people have made reference to an aquarium being a live load. This is not true. An aquarium is a static load. A live load goes though cycles of increasing and decreasing force which cause cyclical fatigue. The aquarium and its supports, for all intent and purpose just sits there not moving.
If you added additional floor support as you mention, and if the footings and column were installed correctly, your floor should be more than robust enough for a 125 gallon tank.
If you supports were not installed correctly, you might have had a deflection in your floor where the stand and tank were supported only on the ends. You might not be able to determine the deflection without the load present and your floor might appear to be fine
 
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