Tank Crashed!

[lockemup]

OK, here is the scoop. My tank has been up for over a year. Been having normal occasional death over that year, but mostly 99% was my fault. Not acclimating exactly right etc... Well, over the last week, I lost all my fish. All my inverts and corals and shrimp are fine... Things were going so well that even my bubble tip anenome split into 3 separate anemones. All three are alive and well.
Following the crash, I tested and found my levels were high. Trites, trates and amonia. Trites increased due to dead fish being under rocks for a couple days and I think the trates went up to take on the trites. I can't figure out what caused the crash, but I did a 50% water change and installed a UV sterilizer. 40W lifegard at the end of my return. The rate of flow through it is somewhere between 450GPH to 550 GPH based on the length of tubing and height through the sterilizer etc... Before doing the water change, My ALK was so high it was off the chart. I was using Kent Tech CB which is that part A and Part B stuff to bring up calcium and alk, but never noticed the ALK that high. My PH has always been a steady 8.2 and all other levels were always normal. My Alk is still high. How can I lower it? I heard water changes will just not completely do it.
I bought this damn thing as a stress reducer. Now I have more stress than I ever had.

 

[xnikki118x]

Alk, calcium, and pH are all interrelated I believe. Hopefully NM Reef or someone will respond to this and let you know how to get it under control. In the meantime, search these boards because I've seen many posts about the relationship between those elements and how to balance them correctly. Good luck!

 

[lockemup]

I cant figure out whats up with the thing. Calcium is a little low (about 340) PH is at a steady 8.2 but the Alk in the tank is higher than my tap water. (I use water from my LFS and always have used it from there as they test their water 2x daily... current readings are below
Amonia - .15
Trites - .1
trates - 10
Calcium - 340
PH - 8.2
ALK - High
Im not too concerned with the amonia and trates at this point as I only have inverts, shrimp and corals in there. I even have a feather duster who is doing OK. I hate this hobby!

 

[yosemite sam]

What test kit are you using for ALK? Do you have an actual number in dKh or mleq? I think the Red Sea test kit gives readings in low, med, and high. If that's the kit you have, dump it and get a salifert test kit. They are much more acurate and give you an actual number reading.
As far as the fish deaths go, what kinds of fish were they? How long did you have them all?

 

[lockemup]

Red Sea test kit. will get new one
Fish were:
3 Coral Cats 2 were 1 yr old and huge (4 inches) 1 was 5 mos old
1 Fire Clown 5 mos
1 Blue Damsel 4 mos old
1 Purple Firefish Goby 9 mos old
1 Fairy Wrasse 6 mos old
1 Yellow Tang 2 mos old
2 Percula Clowns (2 weeks)
1 Cloudy Damsel (2 Weeks)
1 Blue Reef Damsel (2 Weeks)
1 Pearlscale Butterfly (2 Weeks)
I will be waiting to see what my test results do for the next few weeks before putting anything else in...

 

[msd2]

A good place to start would be to get a good alk test kit. I might also suggest getting a Ca kit at the same time. Salifert make great ones, accurate and easy to use. Reason you need a better alk kit especially is instead of a low,medium, high, reading you need numbers to be able to balance it with your ca readings. I would be hesitant on changed your ca levels until your aware of the alk reading. Once you have these balanced out you can start lookin for other reasons your tank crashed.

 

[organism]

Originally Posted by lockemup
2 Percula Clowns (2 weeks)
1 Cloudy Damsel (2 Weeks)
1 Blue Reef Damsel (2 Weeks)
1 Pearlscale Butterfly (2 Weeks)
did you add all these fish in the last two weeks? what size is your tank?

 

[lockemup]

Ahh, still used to the old forums which had the tank size... lol
Tank is a 90 gallon with 20 gallons wet/dry and a refuge with a protein skimmer right before the refuge. My wife bought the 5 fishies after my bubble tip anemone split itself into 3 separate anemones. I tried to explain about biological filtration and adding things slowly, but she never listens to my dumb butt.

 

[organism]

ah, my guess would definitely be that you added to many fish at once, for sure
honestly, that sounds like too many fish to have in a 90 in the first place, if you consider how big they'll be when they get to full size...

 

[organism]

plus I don't think you should mix two different kinds of clowns in a tank, and the damsels can get kinda mean... but that's kinda irrelevant at this point... I'd say definitely take your time with adding the fish later on, when the levels are back to normal for a bit...

 

[wax32]

I agree. The fish you already had were plenty for your 90. Overloading your biological filter all at once likely thru your tank into a new cycle.

 

[lockemup]

I kinda figured it caused a major cycle, but I just don't know how the Alk got so out of hand when my PH has been normal all along and my Calcium has always been roughly 425-450. After this last water change, it dropped to about 340. I may do another 50 gallon water change again on Wednesday, if Needed. unless the amonia and trites are back to zero... But, then again it may take a couple weeks for the tank to complete a cycle now. The good news is my anemones have all eaten today. It looked pretty cool to see them eating at the same time considering they were all three once 1 anemone... Also, since installing the UV sterilizer, I have noticed numerous bristle worms. I just love a self supplying food source...

 

[latino277]

OK.... let me get this straight... you Ca is low.... you ALK is very high.... :thinking: Check you Mg. this sounds like you had some type of Ca fall out??

at any time did you see white spot or flakes in you water? If you Mg falls this will cause your ALK/Ca to get out of balance. If Bang is around he would be able to speak better on this.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by lockemup
After this last water change, it dropped to about 340
It would be worthwhile to mix up a batch of saltwater and test it for Calcium and ALK just to make sure you didn't get a bad batch of salt. Did you notice white precipitate in the container you mixed your salt in?
For your ALK test a reading of "High" is pretty useless. You'll need a kit that can tell you the actual values.

 

[lockemup]

Thanks for all the replys. Here goes my thought on the Alk issue. I was doing my normal dosing of Kents Tech CB (both parts A & B) for just under a year. They maintained my calcium at 420-450 and my Alk was always in the normal range. I added cured base rock to the tank so it could be seeded by my LR. I started using ReefBuilder 1x a week about 3 months ago. I didnt realize all the buffer in that stuff which was like double dosing the Tech CB... Could this be what drove up the Alk?
As for the death... I am seeing my trites and amonia drop and trates climb a little. My Ph is still at 8.2 and has never fluctuated below 8.2, or above 8.3.. I also have noticed a bunch of bristle worms coming out of the rock(this week) as if the tank is getting ready to near the end of a cycle. Is it possible that it went through a cycle due to the swing in bio load after the wife went fish shopping like crazy? I usually only buy 1 or 2 fish a month and had things going well up till this snafu.
I did another 20 gallon water change today. I am also going to try to maintain my Ca with Kalk and hold off on adding the Tech CB, or the ReefBuilder. The only thing I will need to watch closely with using Kalk is the Ph right?

 

[fishmamma]

I just skipped down to reply to an earlier post, sorry if I am repeating......after all the reading I did earlier today on the sunject it makes sense that you have low calcium and high alkalinity. Try raising your calcium to the 440 range and see if that helps to even out your alkalinity.
Now I will go back............

 

[fishmamma]

Your mag levels could be off, but like Bang Guy said you should have seen a precipitate. Too much calcium can cause a precipitate of calcium carbonate, though I thought this lowered alkalinity due to the bonding of the carbonates with the calcium.
Bang Guy? Anybody?

 

[lockemup]

I tried to find a test kit for Mag and one for Alk with the actual readings today, but couldnt find one for Alk and the only Mag one would require me to go back to college and retake Algebra... I'm running out tomorrow to find them if I can...

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by lockemup
I started using ReefBuilder 1x a week about 3 months ago. I didnt realize all the buffer in that stuff which was like double dosing the Tech CB... Could this be what drove up the Alk?
Yup.

 

[lockemup]

**Update**
OK, I ran some testing taday. I still need to get my hands on an Alk test kit that will give me a numerical reading, but it is steadily dropping. It is still high, but closer to the line between normal and high. Calcium is at about 380 and hopefully climbing. Kalk is being dripped at about 1 drop every 3 seconds.
All readings are with Red Sea test kits
Amonia - 0
Trites - 0.05 (between this reading and the 0 reading on the test chart)
trates - 5.0
PH - 8.2
Salinity is 1.02
I will hold off on adding any fish for a couple weeks and will be working on my corals and invertibrates until then. I added a couple stony corals and some multi colored zooz. They all look good and hopefully the tank will finish it's balancing act over the next couple weeks. I will be setting up a hospital tank next week and get that ready for a couple percula clowns the following week. They will be in the hospital tank for two weeks before going into the display tank.