Tank is cycling for dwarves!!

floridacowgirl

New Member
Well, I got my Christmas wish! A 7.5 gallon rimless tank, complete with live sand, "not-so-live-aka-dead" coral for hitching, a great LED light and two stage filter especially for nano tanks! Got it all set up and running, and am thrilled with how quickly the tank cleared up after adding water to the sand (from my LFS). Now we cycle....cycle....cycle....and oh yeah, cycle some more! Seahorses....here I come! :) :) :)
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Thank you Krista! I'm very excited...and nervous! LOL!
I'm adding a pic of the tank here. Just looking at it empty makes me happy....yes I'm a dork. A brief explanation about the statues in front...a Christmas gift from a friend who is as excited about my new venture as I am. Yes, they're goofy but she was so sweet about contributing I HAD to put them in...besides, I figure the legs and horn on the unicorn will make a great place for my "ponies" to hitch!
My one concern is evaporation...so far there has been a pretty fair amount. This is my first rimless, and while I expected some evap, I was a bit startled at how much there was the first 48 hours. My extra-handy husband is going to build me a custom plexi-glass lid...or so he says. LOL!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
Welcome to the forum! Your tank looks awesome. I don't think you should cover your tank, SW needs the extra oxygen and you need some gentle flow...an airline without a stone should help with adding some movement and helping with the oxygen. evaporation is normal. This is why we top off the tank with fresh RO (reverse osmoses) water. Mark your water line and always refill the tank each day to that level. The water evaporates but the salt doesn't, (added just in case you didn't know that)
Do you have any experience with breeding the baby brine shrimp your little guys will need? Like a breeding station set up or something....That is the only reason I never tried the tiny seahorses. My large ones eat frozen mysis, and are as easy to keep as any SW fish.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Hi Flower. Thanks for the reply and information! I have received a lot of good information on this forum (SOOO much better than the "other" forum I joined) and I appreciate the warm welcome I have received!
I have received a few responses and suggestions for not putting a top on the tank, so I believe I will go ahead and leave it as-is. Topping off every day is not a big deal, and if it's better for my babies I'm glad to do it! As for feeding, I have been assured by my LFS owner that the dwarves I am getting are from a long-existing "herd" and will eat mysis (in fact, that's all they'll eat.) Everything I have read says that this is next to impossible, but "Al" has told me many times that these little guys are mysis eaters. I was all prepared to set up my own BBS hatchery! LOL!
Again,
Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to getting to know you!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3505815
Hi Flower. Thanks for the reply and information! I have received a lot of good information on this forum (SOOO much better than the "other" forum I joined) and I appreciate the warm welcome I have received!
I have received a few responses and suggestions for not putting a top on the tank, so I believe I will go ahead and leave it as-is. Topping off every day is not a big deal, and if it's better for my babies I'm glad to do it! As for feeding, I have been assured by my LFS owner that the dwarves I am getting are from a long-existing "herd" and will eat mysis (in fact, that's all they'll eat.) Everything I have read says that this is next to impossible, but "Al" has told me many times that these little guys are mysis eaters. I was all prepared to set up my own BBS hatchery! LOL!
Again,
Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to getting to know you!
UMMM...I have never ever heard of a dwarf seahorse that can eat mysis, it's too large...you need to double check that fish store. Many times stores will hand you a line of bunk just to get the sale. I really don't think they are telling you the truth. Have them feed the dwarf horses mysis while you are there to watch, and verify they indeed eat mysis shrimp.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3505938
UMMM...I have never ever heard of a dwarf seahorse that can eat mysis, it's too large...you need to double check that fish store. Many times stores will hand you a line of bunk just to get the sale. I really don't think they are telling you the truth. Have them feed the dwarf horses mysis while you are there to watch, and verify they indeed eat mysis shrimp.
Flower,
What do you feed your dwarves?
I appreciate your concern, but I really don't think that my friend
at the fish shop is lying to me. I've known him awhile, and he's never steered me wrong before. I'm sure if he says these seahorses eat mysis they do. Where he sells both BBS eggs and mysis he's not losing out on a sale. I do like the idea of having him show me how to feed them, and in fact have already asked him to do so...which he readily agreed to.

Remember, "just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it isn't so" (of course this quote was about Santa Claus, but I think it applies here as well! LOL!)
I really do appreciate your concern...thanks for looking out for me. :)
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506006
Flower,
What do you feed your dwarves?
I appreciate your concern, but I really don't think that my friend at the fish shop is lying to me. I've known him awhile, and he's never steered me wrong before. I'm sure if he says these seahorses eat mysis they do. Where he sells both BBS eggs and mysis he's not losing out on a sale. I do like the idea of having him show me how to feed them, and in fact have already asked him to do so...which he readily agreed to.

Remember, "just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it isn't so" (of course this quote was about Santa Claus, but I think it applies here as well! LOL!)
I really do appreciate your concern...thanks for looking out for me. :)
Hi, I keep Kuda and Potbelly seahorses (in different tanks), all captive bred and all eat frozen mysis shrimp. I never got the dwarf seahorses because they ONLY eat NEWLY hatched baby brine shrimp, and copepods (tiny food)
Are you sure he is selling dwarf seashorses
(AKA: Zosterae)? Absolutely make sure you actually watch them eat before you purchase them if he claims they will eat frozen mysis. I purchased my Kuda from a very reputable place called seahorse source, and they only sell captive bred seahorses eating frozen foods...EXCEPT for the zosterae (dwarf) horses, along with a huge warning posted that they ONLY eat live baby brine shrimp,
and you would need to have a breeding station for them. I don't understand why they would not have their drawf seahorse trained for frozen if were possible....Live food is the only reason I don't keep dwarf seahorses.
.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506013
Hi, I keep Kuda and Potbelly seahorses (in different tanks), all captive bred and all eat frozen mysis shrimp. I never got the dwarf seahorses because they ONLY eat NEWLY hatched baby brine shrimp, and copepods (tiny food)
Are you sure he is selling dwarf seashorses (AKA: Zosterae)? Absolutely make sure you actually watch them eat before you purchase them if he claims they will eat frozen mysis. I purchased my Kuda from a very reputable place called seahorse source, and they only sell captive bred seahorses eating frozen foods...EXCEPT for the zosterae (dwarf) horses, along with a huge warning posted that they ONLY eat live baby brine shrimp,
and you would need to have a breeding station for them. I don't understand why they would not have their drawf seahorse trained for frozen if were possible....Live food is the only reason I don't keep dwarf seahorses.
.
Flower,
Check out this post/article I found...

Feeding

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Prepare a plan for keeping your seahorses fed a healthy, nutritionally sound diet. Dwarf seahorses thrive best on live food. While one of the most common diets suggested for dwarf seahorses is brine shrimp, it does not provide sufficient or complete ont-variant: normal; text-transform: none !important; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; text-decoration: underline !important; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 204, 0); border-top-style: none; border-top-color: transparent; border-right-style: none; border-right-color: transparent; border-left-style: none; border-left-color: transparent; ">nutrition
. As a result, it always needs to be supplemented with other types of food. Copepods, red shrimp, mysis shrimp and glass shrimp offer significantly higher nutrition than brine shrimp and are more suitable options. When fresh, live food is not readily available, many dwarf seahorses can be trained to eat frozen mysis shrimp. (So it's not COMPLETELY inconceivable....)
Read more: Care Guide for Dwarf Seahorses | eHow.com top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 51, 153); ">http://www.ehow.com/way_5907745_care-guide-dwarf-seahorses.html#ixzz2Gdmv3O9t
And this...
Hi LisaD & swan,
The frozen foods are:
Cyclop-eeze
hikari brand frozen mysis
Artemia-hatched and grown out at home
Vary the enrichments
My method is the same as training juvies of other species onto frozen.
Patience is the key. Start when they are most hungry(a.m.) and start mixing in frozen with the live food. Each day, lessen the live foods and increase the frozen foods, making sure all of the horses are getting plenty to eat. Keep feeding out more frozen and less live until they are only getting frozen. It's important to observe them during feeding times to make certain how all are progressing.
I think it's important to also feed live treats once a week as most of us do weekly for other species.
Also, obviously, make certain the foods are appropriate in size. Don't over feed. The live foods can vary, newly hatched artemia(under 12 hours old), copepods,etc.
Many people like to raise the zosterae fry w/ the adults but the fry need live foods for a period of time(as all fry do), so I found it best to raise them seperately until trained to frozen and then they can be moved into the main tank with the adults.
If not seperated, some adults can and do revert back to only wanting live foods,ime.
It's important to always purchase cb horses. Some wc will never accept frozen foods and some will.
HTH
The horses I'm getting are Zosterae, and have been RAISED to only eat frozen. The owner of the "herd" started a long time ago, and once he got all of his original dwarfs converted, ONLY feeds frozen. Of course, I will have to purchase the exact kind they are used to, but where we both purchase from the same LFS it won't be a problem.
I have faith in my LFS...they are like friends to me, and have NEVER steered me wrong. (I purchase FW supplies from them and have for awhile.) They sell SW and FW fish, as well as a small variety of birds. I have an established relationship with everyone in this family-owned shop, and have faith in their honesty, as well as their dedication to ensuring EVERY creature that leaves their shop will have the BEST possible care. (I once saw them refuse to sell to one family because they had doubts about this.)
I assure you I'm ready to go another route if it becomes necessary and won't jeopardize the health of my new babies in any way, and I know that's your biggest concern. :) As I have said I REALLY appreciate you looking out for me (you have been SO very kind), but I'd like to ask that we just agree to disagree here and let this go.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506021
Flower,
Check out this post/article I found...

Feeding

Prepare a plan for keeping your seahorses fed a healthy, nutritionally sound diet. Dwarf seahorses thrive best on live food. While one of the most common diets suggested for dwarf seahorses is brine shrimp, it does not provide sufficient or complete nutritiont itxtrstimg itxthookicon" id="itxthook1icon" src="http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png" style="border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px 0px 0px 4px !important; left: auto; top: auto; width: auto !important; height: auto !important; text-align: left; right: auto; bottom: auto; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; vertical-align: baseline !important; float: none !important; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; position: static; max-height: none; max-width: none !important; outline-width: 0px; background-color: transparent;" />. As a result, it always needs to be supplemented with other types of food. Copepods, red shrimp, mysis shrimp and glass shrimp offer significantly higher nutrition than brine shrimp and are more suitable options. When fresh, live food is not readily available, many dwarf seahorses can be trained to eat frozen mysis shrimp. (So it's not COMPLETELY inconceivable....)
Read more: Care Guide for Dwarf Seahorses | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/way_5907745_care-guide-dwarf-seahorses.html#ixzz2Gdmv3O9t
And this...
Hi LisaD & swan,
The frozen foods are:
Cyclop-eeze
hikari brand frozen mysis
Artemia-hatched and grown out at home
Vary the enrichments
My method is the same as training juvies of other species onto frozen.
Patience is the key. Start when they are most hungry(a.m.) and start mixing in frozen with the live food. Each day, lessen the live foods and increase the frozen foods, making sure all of the horses are getting plenty to eat. Keep feeding out more frozen and less live until they are only getting frozen. It's important to observe them during feeding times to make certain how all are progressing.
br />I think it's important to also feed live treats once a week as most of us do weekly for other species.
Also, obviously, make certain the foods are appropriate in size. Don't over feed. The live foods can vary, newly hatched artemia(under 12 hours old), copepods,etc.
Many people like to raise the zosterae fry w/ the adults but the fry need live foods for a period of time(as all fry do), so I found it best to raise them seperately until trained to frozen and then they can be moved into the main tank with the adults.
If not seperated, some adults can and do revert back to only wanting live foods,ime.
It's important to always purchase cb horses. Some wc will never accept frozen foods and some will.
HTH
The horses I'm getting are Zosterae, and have been RAISED to only eat frozen. The owner of the "herd" started a long time ago, and once he got all of his original dwarfs converted, ONLY feeds frozen. Of course, I will have to purchase the exact kind they are used to, but where we both purchase from the same LFS it won't be a problem.
I have faith in my LFS...they are like friends to me, and have NEVER steered me wrong. (I purchase FW supplies from them and have for awhile.) They sell SW and FW fish, as well as a small variety of birds. I have an established relationship with everyone in this family-owned shop, and have faith in their honesty, as well as their dedication to ensuring EVERY creature that leaves their shop will have the BEST possible care. (I once saw them refuse to sell to one family because they had doubts about this.)
I assure you I'm ready to go another route if it becomes necessary and won't jeopardize the health of my new babies in any way, and I know that's your biggest concern. :) As I have said I REALLY appreciate you looking out for me (you have been SO very kind), but I'd like to ask that we just agree to disagree here and let this go.
I read the article you posted, it was on a site that really does not tell the difference between the types of seahorses and is inaccurate...they lump the dwarf seahorses with the Erectus. There are lots of folks on this site that have kept the dwarf horses for many years, Smartori and Saxman are the experts, and they have the babies from them because they breed like little bunnies (so a long standing herd does not a whole lot)...none of them feeds frozen, and insist they only eat newly hatched baby brine shrimp and copepods.
Go to a site called Seahorse.org...they are the real experts.
Regardless, ask to watch his horses eat frozen mysis, do it now so you will know how to procede, you may have to set up a feeding station, which is just a couple of 2 liter size soda bottles or one of those fancy breeding cups. The one thing to consider is your time...they eat 2 to 3 xs a day and it will kind of tie you to the house.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Flower,
I am a member of Seahorse.org. I posted there, and the response I got was that they had heard of people training dwarves to frozen, that it was a difficult undertaking and they were interested to see if it would indeed work. Most of all they WISHED ME LUCK.
I assure you that I am NOT an idiot, nor have I never had a pet before. I am not someone who enters into the commitment of caring for an animal, ANY animal, without a lot of thought and research. I also don't ignore the needs of an animal in my care. I have spent many a sleepless night walking a real horse with colic, practically carrying him or her, bedding down in the barn to constantly monitor his/her progress, so that he or she would not die. My point is that the well being of my animals is a priority for me, and when I bring an animal into my family it is with that understanding.
As I said I also have faith that my LFS will not steer me wrong, and frankly your continued inference that they are is upsetting as they are friends. Should the seahorses I get not eat frozen (which is unlikely because they already are), I am sure that they will help me meet their needs immediately. They are as committed to the well-being of all of their animals as I am of mine. While I have said I appreciate your input, I am starting to feel like you are trying simply to be "right" here, and I ask AGAIN that you just be supportive.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506027
Flower,
I am a member of Seahorse.org. I posted there, and the response I got was that they had heard of people training dwarves to frozen, that it was a difficult undertaking and they were interested to see if it would indeed work. Most of all they WISHED ME LUCK.
I assure you that I am NOT an idiot, nor have I never had a pet before. I am not someone who enters into the commitment of caring for an animal, ANY animal, without a lot of thought and research. I also don't ignore the needs of an animal in my care. I have spent many a sleepless night walking a real horse with colic, practically carrying him or her, bedding down in the barn to constantly monitor his/her progress, so that he or she would not die. My point is that the well being of my animals is a priority for me, and when I bring an animal into my family it is with that understanding.
As I said I also have faith that my LFS will not steer me wrong, and frankly your continued inference that they are is upsetting as they are friends. Should the seahorses I get not eat frozen (which is unlikely because they already are), I am sure that they will help me meet their needs immediately. They are as committed to the well-being of all of their animals as I am of mine. While I have said I appreciate your input, I am starting to feel like you are trying simply to be "right" here, and I ask AGAIN that you just be supportive.
Oh please don't think I was getting on to you!...I never meant to imply you were an idot, and if I came off that way, I'm very, very sorry. No, I just really don't trust LFS and I'm surprised seahorse.org said to go for it...but if they say you can try, I trust that site. I would indeed watch them eat before purchasing them and have a feeding station set up so you don't run into trouble until you are sure they will eat for you..
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506164
Thanks Flower. :D
LOL...If your dwarf horses are indeed feeding on frozen mysis...Would your LFS ship them?...Because if he will, I would love to get some dwarf seahorses for myself, the only reason I never did was because they had to have live food.
I would pay shipping and even pay him a double price for them. Dwarf seahorses the eat frozen mysis...there is a market for that. Years ago nobody did seahorses because of ther live food needs, as soon as they had them eating frozen mysis, the market is wide open, and lots of folks now keep seahorses that never dreamed it even possible...That includes yours truely.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Flower,
I will ask him when I'm in there next time...going to go get some water to top off my tank later this week. In the meantime, I'm seriously considering a power filter upgrade. I'm having doubts that the filter my DH purchased is large enough. He purchased a filter for a 5-7 tank...the tank is 7.5 gallons. From what I've read, the filter should be big enough to handle a larger water volume/bacterial debris than what the tank actually is, and have adjustable flow, so the little guys don't go whipping around like they're on a flume ride. I'm thinking of a QuietFlow or Aquaclear, but not sure if I should go with a "up to 10" or "10-20" gallon model. Suggestions? I don't like how it's struggling to handle the miniscule piece of shrimp I put in last night.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506184
Flower,
I will ask him when I'm in there next time...going to go get some water to top off my tank later this week. In the meantime, I'm seriously considering a power filter upgrade. I'm having doubts that the filter my DH purchased is large enough. He purchased a filter for a 5-7 tank...the tank is 7.5 gallons. From what I've read, the filter should be big enough to handle a larger water volume/bacterial debris than what the tank actually is, and have adjustable flow, so the little guys don't go whipping around like they're on a flume ride. I'm thinking of a QuietFlow or Aquaclear, but not sure if I should go with a "up to 10" or "10-20" gallon model. Suggestions? I don't like how it's struggling to handle the miniscule piece of shrimp I put in last night.

As long as the little critters don't get sucked up into the intake tube...you may have to cover the intake with some sponge to protect them.
The filters purpose is to catch large particles of floating gunk, and trap it as it flows through the floss. The purpose of the shrimp is to introduce something to rot, which will cause an ammonia spike, which in turn triggers the nitrite spike, and last triggers the nitrate spike...AKA: the first cycle.
Good bacteria that feeds on ammonia and nitrites will build colonies on the sand, false decor, rocks and the floss in the filter. By having a large colony of the good bacteria, the tank critters are safe from the bad affects of ammonia and nitrites, which are deadly to marine life. As long as you keep fresh floss in the filter, it will clean the water as it returns into the system. If you allow the filter floss to remain too long, the good bacteria will build on the floss and when you change it, you remove the needed bacteria. The system only builds enough good bacteria to consume the ammonia it feeds on...they balance out. So all that to just say...keep the filter media clean, and your filter is fine for that little tank.
 

floridacowgirl

New Member
Sooo...in other words...suck it up and deal with the cloudiness...it will work out. LOL!! This is where my OCD-ness will make the whole cycling process a challenge!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaCowgirl http:///t/393924/tank-is-cycling-for-dwarves#post_3506210
Sooo...in other words...suck it up and deal with the cloudiness...it will work out. LOL!! This is where my OCD-ness will make the whole cycling process a challenge!

I'm with bang guy...what are the levels, I never had cloudiness...maybe because it's such a tiny tank.?????
 
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