Tank size & fish compaitibility

mikeyjer

Active Member
It was used to treat ich, that's when we first got started with saltwater. We know a lot better now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

anita

Member
Ohhh, ok. What do you think about my list? Tangs wouldn't be good for because I don't think I would have room for a bigger tank in my house.
Anita
 

anita

Member
Hey, I went to the fish store today. We actually might get a 60g tank, since we're getting a really good deal on the stand, tank, plus fliter/skimmer that goes behind the tank. It's a lot easier to maintain, to clean the filter, all I'd do is remove the 2 sponges & clean them w/tap water & put it back in. Anyone else that's familiar with it though? To get this setup, the tank is acryllic. It looks nice though.
Since I'm planning a reef tank, the store says it's double the price of a fish only tank(because of the lighting cost/price of lr) is this true? Should I make some changes in my tank's setup? Suggestions?
Anita
 

dave_15

Member
well in canada it is true....in canada corals are an average of 80-90/ piece of coral...the lightning and other equipement...it is very expensive
 

anita

Member
Ok, well what about here? The store I went to today charges $5/lb for live rock. Someone on this message board suggested getting base rock or dead rock which is a lot cheaper & getting a few pieces of live rock...the organisms are supposed to spread to all the dead rocks. What do you think about that? How long does it take approx for that to happen? Would lighting be different in that scenario?
Anita
 

mikeyjer

Active Member
Originally Posted by Anita
Ok, well what about here? The store I went to today charges $5/lb for live rock. Someone on this message board suggested getting base rock or dead rock which is a lot cheaper & getting a few pieces of live rock...the organisms are supposed to spread to all the dead rocks. What do you think about that? How long does it take approx for that to happen? Would lighting be different in that scenario?
Anita
Base rocks are what they say they are, it is a base to put the live rock on and build up from there. It is inexpensive so it is a good starting point then build up from there with live rock. Eventually the live rock will seed the base rock and it can take up months to a year before it eventually happens. Standard aquarium lighting will do with live rocks, but if you want different types of coraline algae, you upgrade to a better lighting. However start with the basics and upgrade slowly over time as your finances allow. The lighting can cost up to $700.00 or more. It is exactly what we're doing right now by starting out with base rocks then adding live rock a little at a time. Eventually we will upgrade our lighting. With base rocks you can add all at sametime, but with live rocks add about 5 lbs every 2 weeks, that's if you already established your tank. IF not, you can add all of them at once to cycle your tank with. As a general rule of thumb, when your adding live rock you will need about one lb of rock per every gallon of water. :happyfish
 

anita

Member
Well, if I get my tank this weekend & start it's cycle...do I need to put base rock in right away? Or should I wait for the cycle to finish to put in base rock? If I put base rock in my tank, with a few pieces of live rock, will I be able to add fish, or do I have wait for the live rock's bacteria to spread to the base rock? Will fish like clownfish & serpent stars, etc use the rock, event hough some of it isn't "live"?
We'll get the 50g or 60g tank, so, what's is your estimate for lighting if we started w/base rock?
Anita
 

mikeyjer

Active Member
Originally Posted by Anita
Well, if I get my tank this weekend & start it's cycle...do I need to put base rock in right away? Or should I wait for the cycle to finish to put in base rock? If I put base rock in my tank, with a few pieces of live rock, will I be able to add fish, or do I have wait for the live rock's bacteria to spread to the base rock? Will fish like clownfish & serpent stars, etc use the rock, event hough some of it isn't "live"?
We'll get the 50g or 60g tank, so, what's is your estimate for lighting if we started w/base rock?
Anita
The larger the tank you get, the lesser room for errors. I would get the largest tank you can afford and what would fit into your house. You can add live sand, base rock and uncured live rock all at the same time. Let it cycle, you will have a ammonia spike and once all the readings turns to 0, that's when you can add in your first fish. That can take up to a month or two. Be patient!!! The fish and all the critters will use the rock no matter if it's live or not, they use it as a hiding place or a place they call home. Read up on it in details before you start though, just making sure you know all what you need to know. The regular lighting that you get with the aquarium would be fine with just live rock. Although better lighting gives you better coraline growth, but what you get with the tank would work just fine. Good Luck! :happyfish
 

anita

Member
Mikeyjer
So, when I buy live rock either in the store for $5/lb, or online, do I specify uncured live rock? That's the one I'd have to cure w/a tooth brush, right? Is it ok to put the uncured live rock, base rock & live sand in the tank at the beginning of the cycle? Won't the high levels on ammonia, nitrates & nitrites affect them in a bad way & make it un-usable for fish?
Anita
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
Originally Posted by Anita
Ok, thanks for the help, do you think it's good to go out & get my tank/supplies this weekend? I think with help from poster on this site (thanks!), I have a good idea how my tank will be setup. That way I can get started on the approx 1 month cycle. I think I'll get my tank, stand, supplies from a fish store & have them set it up, then I don't have to worry about making a mistake. I still have one more fish store to go to(probably today) in Buena Park that someone on this board suggested.
2 clownfish
1 purple urchin
1-2 serpent stars (probably 1 if I get a cc star)
1 yellow watchman goby
1 red spotted sandperch goby
1 diamond goby
1 midas blenny
1 purple pseudochromis
MAYBE
1 twin spot wrasse-red sea( maybe later, it would be a splurge-but it's really beautiful)
1 jewel damsel-this site says they're peaceful & reef safe.
So, Is that too many? I was trying to get a few red, orange, yellow fish but also cool colors like blue & purple fish.
Chocolate Chip Star--I'd really like to have one, would they be ok to have in my tank?
How do I decide on rocks, corals, anemones? It would be nice to have an anemone for my clownfish, I think this site recommends a carpet anemone, but how would it do w/a cc star?
Mikeyjer-I'm sorry about what happened...just curious, but why would you use copper in a tank?
Anita
Anita, as for your fish list, i'm not sure if all of the goby's will get along. I know some of the same species shouldn't be in the tank together, but i don't know if that applies to goby's or not.
Also, the rule of thumb for the number of fish is this: There should be 1" of fish for every 4 gallons of water in your tank. Now over time, as your system becomes more established, you can work your way up to 1" per 3 gallons, and maybe 1" per 2 gallons. The way you want to plan this, though, is how long the fish will get when it's full grown, not how long it is now. For example, your clownfish may only be 1" when you get it, but it can grow to be 3" long. With two clownfish, you've already used 6". With a 60 gallon tank, you should have no more than 15" of fish in there. With your wish list now, you've overstocked your tank. If you plan on adding those fish over the next few years, however, you should be ok. I'd first find out about the goby's getting along. That info will be in that marine fishes book.
Now, with the corals, and anemones, the general rule of thumb is this: they need about 5 watts of light per gallon. With a 60 gallon tank, you'll need a 300 watt unit, which can get incredibly expensive. You'll have to save up for a while for a unit like that.
Also, you'll have to get a better filter than the hang-on-the-back one you have for corals too, as they need PRISTINE water conditions. This can get pretty pricey too. I'd suggest starting out with a FOWLR (fish only with live rock), and work your way up to the reef when you get the money for everything you'll need. This is what i'm doing (9 months and still don't have the lighting...i'm not too good with money...lol)
Good luck with everything!!!
Jenn
 

anita

Member
Fowlr refers to the lighting or filter? Others have said start out w/standard lighting and little live rock(mostly baserock)...what is a standard light? Should I be getting any anemones for the clownfish even with not much live rock at the time?
2 clownfish
1 purple urchin
1-2 serpent stars (probably 1 if I get a cc star)
1 yellow watchman goby
1 midas blenny
1 purple pseudochromis
MAYBE later:
1 twin spot wrasse-red sea( maybe later, it would be a splurge-but it's really beautiful)
1 jewel damsel-this site says they're peaceful & reef safe.
1 red spotted sandperch goby
1 diamond goby
Anita
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
Ok, the FOWLR refers to the kind of stuff you have in your tank. FOWLR means you have fish with live rock, but no corals, or inverts. FO means you have fish only, with no LR, no corals and no inverts. Reef tank means you have fish, LR, & corals/inverts.
The live rock is in your tank for three reasons:
1. it provides a place for your fish and other critters to hide. For this, you don't necessarily need LR, you can use base rock, fake decorations, etc., but your fish need somewhere they can call "home"
2. it is a filter. This is what happens during the cycle: The uncured LR introduces die-off to your tank. This causes a lot of ammonia. The ammonia causes a lot of ammonia-eating bacteria to grow in your tank. This bacteria changes the ammonia into nitrites. The nitrites cause nitrite-eating bacteria to grow in your tank. These bacteria change the nitrites into nitrates. This whole process is to set up the ammonia and nitrite eating bacterias so that your tank will be capable of processing the waste your fish create.
3. It looks pretty.
Ok, also, with inverts (such as anemones), you have to have proper lighting in order for them to survive. These animals use a photosynthetic process to live. Just like plants and trees. If they don't have enough lighting, they will eventually shrivel up and die.
As long as the clownfish has a few spaces to hide, he'll be fine. Clownfish don't need anemones to survive, people just like watching the bond they make.
My suggestion to you was this: Start out with base rock, some LR, and SAND (don't use crushed coral at all!). Then, after your tank cycles, you'll add your fish and inverts - such as your stars (you should really only add 1 fish every 2-4 weeks, so your system can catch up with the extra waste they produce). You should wait for at least a year before you add any corals or anemones. This will give you time to make your beginning mistakes, and get used to the whole process. Then when you're ready, you'll buy the proper lighting for the anemones, and then you can add the anemones.
Do you follow everything i said? i can get pretty jabbery sometimes. I'll go on forever if someone doesn't stop me...lol
Jenn
 

anita

Member
No, that really helped...please continue "jabbering", lol. I needed to create a specific plan like that, just didn't know how to go about doing it. Is it ok to put baserock, live rock & live sand during the cycle? Is baserock sold in local stores? I didn't check at previous stores, because I didn't know how $$ it would really be. So, I know that it 1 lb of live rock for every gallon, but since I'm doing baserock & live rock & live sand, what's a good amount for each? It seems really hard to start a saltwater aquarium, but I've been told the hardest part is setting it up. Could you please read my new type of tank post...I'm still confused on that.
By the way, I'm planning to visit what I think is the last fish store in my area & I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask you before I go, so I kinf of have an idea of what to look for. If you don't mind, could you email me your phone number (or I could email you mine) so I can quick ask you the questions(& take down some notes) & be prepared for the fish store.
anita_narayana@hotmail.com
Thanks again for all your help,
Anita
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
Yes, most LFS sell base rock, some refer to it as lace rock, but it's all the same. It's actually much cheaper than LR, normally it's only like $2.00/lb.
You should have 1-2lbs of rock in the tank, this can be a combination of LR & base rock. This is what i'm doing for my new 35 gallon hex that i'm setting up: I'm buying 30lbs of base rock, and 15lbs of LR. As long as the LR touches the base rock, and all of the rocks touch eachother, all of your rock will eventually become live. With regular florescent lighting, this may take a year or so, but that's ok. With your sand, i'm not sure how many lbs it will be, but you should have about 3-4" of sand on the bottom of the tank (you'll just have to experiment with this). You're getting gobies, and they can burrow holes in the sand, so it's best if they have deeper sandbed to do it.
Here's what i would suggest you do: Buy the base rock and sand. set the base rock up in the tank. This should be the first thing that goes it. This way, it sits on the glass bottom of the tank, and you can make sure it's really sturdy (you want to push on the rock from all angles to make sure it's not going to fall over and squish anyone later on). Put the sand in a bucket, and put saltwater in with it. Let the sand settle before you put it in the tank, and therefore it won't float around the tank too long. Then fill the tank with water to about 6" or so below the top (this allows you to put the sand in without flooding the tank. This is when you add the sand. After that's all set up, you can add the LR (the LR should not be in the air for too long).
If i were setting up my current tank this way (the one you saw pictures of on the other thread), i would have about 80% of the rock on each side as base rock. Then i would put the LR on top of it, to create the "peak" at each corner. That way, there's LR touching my base rock.
It's not really that hard to set it up, as long as you read about how to do it first!
In a nutshell, here's how i would suggest doing it:
1. add base rock (make sure it's stable)
2. add water
3. add sand
4. add LR
5. let tank cycle for a few weeks
6. test the water often so you know when the cycle's ended.
7. After the tank cycles, (when ammonia and nitrites are both 0) do weekly water changes of about 10% to lower the nitrates
8. When your water parameter read as follows, you can add fish:
PH - 8.2-8.4
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - > 20ppm
SG (specific gravity) - 1.025-1.026
9. add only one fish per every 2-4 weeks, so you don't overload your system.
Did you follow all that?
Jenn
 

mikeyjer

Active Member
It's pretty much all covered by Jenn, I'm gonna take the night off from here....Very tired....Good Luck Anita! :happyfish
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
GOOOOD morning! Anita, did you go to that fish store? How'd it go?
Jenn
 

anita

Member
Lol, good morning Jenn. No actually we didn't go to the store last night, we stayed up late last night & ate pizza.
We decided to go tonight, but I'll let you know how it goes. Hey that website you found for the live rock, if I got 2 sets of fiji rock + a few pieces of the nano rock (since it's supposed to have more colors), would that be ok? My only reason for doing so is my tank would be more diverse, & have more colors.
could you look at my starfish question post, I was hoping to get more responses :(
Anita
 

dexter

Member
good eveing Jenn and Anita. Newbie here also and I can understand the overwhelming feeling you have anita, and Jenn is pretty darn good with her observations and advice. Thanks!
In a nutshell, here's how i would suggest doing it:
1. add base rock (make sure it's stable)
2. add water
3. add sand
4. add LR
5. let tank cycle for a few weeks
6. test the water often so you know when the cycle's ended.
7. After the tank cycles, (when ammonia and nitrites are both 0) do weekly water changes of about 10% to lower the nitrates
8. When your water parameter read as follows, you can add fish:
PH - 8.2-8.4
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - > 20ppm
SG (specific gravity) - 1.025-1.026
9. add only one fish per every 2-4 weeks, so you don't overload your system.

This is the best advice for you for the next 1-2 months. The one piece of advice I can give after my 6 months of Saltwater is to be PATIENT
I have a 30 gallon with a clownfish, 2 firefish (new today!), condi and bubble tip anemone, LR, LS, and multiple inverts, and the one mistake I made was not researching and reading enough about what I was doing.
Surf every area of this website and others, use the search function to get post on your questions, and above all... don't be disappointed when you are a "thread killer" like me.

Get your test kits for Amonia, trates, trites, Alk, pH, hydrometer, and even Phosphates. Don't use Tap water to fill your tank and keep at least 5 gallons of premixed salt water ready a day or two before your water changes (never use newly mixed saltwater)

Lots of questions you will have...answer most we will try.

Enjoy and ease you desire for the "completed tank" by checking out the photos section on this message board.
Dxtr -
 
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