The Top 40.................

darthtang aw

Active Member
Reasons against.
1) Obama took 700 billion dollars out of the Medicare program and put it into his wildly unpopular health care program. This is despite the fact that even Obama has admitted,
Medicare in particular will run out of money, and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up.
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan will put that money back into the Medicare program where it belongs, while Obama won't.
2) Barack Obama's stimulus plan cost more than the Marshall Plan, the Louisiana Purchase, and putting a man on the moon — combined and it was a complete and utter failure -- more than 800 billion dollars that accomplished nothing of significance.
3) If Barack Obama is re-elected, Obamacare will go into effect in 2014. This will lead to huge doctor shortages, exploding health care costs, companies dropping insurance, doctors less likely to accept medicare, much longer waits to see a doctor, and a dramatic deterioration in the quality of American medical care.
4) Do you believe that your taxes should go up in the next four years? Well, Barack Obama does,
"Nobody’s looking to raise taxes right now. We’re talking about potentially 2013 and the out years." — Barack Obama
5) Even the left-wingers at Politifact admit that Obama broke his promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term.
6) America lost its AAA credit rating for the first time since 1917 on Obama's watch.
7) Even though Barack Obama keeps blaming do-nothing Republicans for his myriad of failures, the Republicans in the House have passed multiple budgets while Barack Obama and the Democrats in the Senate haven't pushed a budget through in the last three years. That's a big deal because passing a budget is one of the most basic duties of Congress. A Congress that can't pass a budget is like a mechanic who can't handle an oil change.
8) Barack Obama called George Bush "unpatriotic" for adding so much to the debt. Yet, Obama added more debt in 3 years and 2 months than Bush did in both terms.
9) "Do you think it’s okay for Barack Obama’s campaign contributors at Solyndra to receive a 535 million dollar government loan, approved by one of Obama’s fundraisers, even though it was known that the company was in trouble and there was an excellent chance it wouldn’t be able to pay back the loan?"
10) Barack Obama is touting his interference on behalf of his union cronies at General Motors and Chevrolet as a big "success." The cost of that "success" for the taxpayers? 25 billion dollars.
11) Obama selected Tim Geithner, a man who was a tax cheat, to be his Treasury Secretary. That's bad enough, but then Obama spent his whole first term lobbying for tax increases and accusing other people of being greedy for wanting to keep more of their own money. When even the Treasury Secretary refuses to willingly pay all of his taxes, maybe the problem is that you're spending too much, not taxing the American people too little.
12) Under the "Cash for Clunkers" program, Obama spent 3 billion so he could buy and destroy perfectly functional cars. This was mind-numbingly stupid, but it was supposed to at least cause a major spike in auto sales and improve gas efficiency. The program is now almost universally recognized as a failure on every count.
13) Barack Obama put an end to NASA's manned space flight. In other words, because of Obama we no longer even have the same capabilities that we had in 1969. Meanwhile, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden says the "foremost" mission of NASA is now Muslim outreach. Yes, really.
14) Despite the fact that Obama had a disastrous first term, he hasn't even put forth a second term agenda. After one of the worst four year runs of any President in American history, Obama's message to the voters is, "Trust my judgment when it comes to deciding what we'll do differently."
15) "If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, ‘Well, it must be ’cause I was just so smart.’ There are a lot of smart people out there. ‘It must be because I worked harder than everybody else.’ Let me tell you something: If you’ve got a business, that–you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” -- Barack Obama
16) After BP had a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, Obama exacerbated the crisis and dramatically slowed down the clean-up with his incompetent handling of the whole affair. Obama performed so poorly that even James Carville and Chris Matthews were publicly criticizing him.
17) "No, no. I have been practicing…I bowled a 129. It’s like — it was like Special Olympics, or something." — Barack Obama. Classy!
18) We were told that George W. Bush was a cowboy who was making the world hate us. Yet, as Chuck Norris notes,
The Washington Times reports that, according to a poll by even two left-leaning groups, “A majority of Americans say the United States is less respected in the world than two years ago and believe President Obama and other Democrats fall short of Republicans on the issue of national security.”
In February 2012, Gallup reported that “Americans continue to express much greater dissatisfaction than satisfaction with the United States’ position in the world, and their views have improved little since hitting a low point in 2008.”
19) "But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking." — Barack Obama. In 2008, Barack Obama ran as a moderate, bipartisan reformer who was going to change the tone in Washington. He has governed as a hyper-partisan, arrogant, divisive, polar opposite of the man he pretended to be in 2008.
20) Although liberals and conservatives disagree on who's to blame for Obama's poor performance as President, there seems to be general agreement that he hasn't done very well. Of course, you can't tell Obama that.
Oprah: What grade would you give yourself, for this year?
Obama: Um, good solid B+
…Oprah: So B+, what could you have done better?
Obama: Well B+ because of the things that are undone. Health care is not yet signed. If I get health care passed we tip into A minus.
21) Despite claiming to be in favor of traditional marriage to get elected, Barack Obama betrayed Christians by coming out in favor of gay marriage.
22) The First Amendment rights of the Catholic Church are being violated under Obamacare. Despite its long recognized religious opposition to contraceptives and abortifacients, Obama is demanding that Catholic hospitals go against their faith to remain open. Every last Catholic bishop in the United States opposes Obama's anti-Christian policy and it will likely lead to numerous Catholic hospitals shutting down if Obama is re-elected.
23) Barack Obama despicably played the race card by telling Hispanic Americans that Republicans were their "enemies."
And if Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, we’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us, if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder – and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.
The President of the United States shouldn't be trying to pit different groups of Americans against each other based on the color of their skin.
24) "The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. . . . What I think we know — separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in their country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that’s just a fact." — Barack Obama on the arrest of his friend, Henry Louis Gates.
25) The "Justice Department" helped put guns in the hands of drug cartels via Operation Fast and Furious that were used to kill hundreds of Mexican citizens and at least one American, Brian Terry. After stonewalling a congressional investigation, Barack Obama asserted executive privilege to try to keep the truth from coming out about the biggest scandal since Watergate.
26) We essentially have an open borders policy in America now for illegal aliens who haven't committed felonies in the United States.
27) Barack Obama is illegally trying to implement the DREAM Act by fiat, despite the fact that it failed to get through Congress.
28) The fence on our southern border was supposed to be completed in 2009. Not only has it not been completed, but the virtual fence has been put off until at least 2016.
29) Because Barack Obama is so out of touch, he thinks that "the private sector is doing fine.".
30) Obama has blocked the keystone pipeline and ANWR while he has held up offshore drilling in the Gulf and demonized oil companies. It's hard to say how much more you're paying at the pump because of Barack Obama, but we can be sure the amount is considerable.
31) In 2011, nearly 1 in 7 Americans were on food stamps. Is setting a record for putting the most Americans on food stamps really the sort of achievement that should merit a second term?
32) Despite the billions of dollars that were spent on TARP, U.S. home ownership is at a decade long low. So is the number of Americans who say their home is worth more than they paid for it. Home prices are the lowest they’ve been since 2002.
33) The staggering cost of the new regulations that the Obama Administration has implemented on American businesses over the last 3 1/2 years? 84 billion dollars.
34) Obama sent BILLIONS of dollars of YOUR TAX DOLLARS overseas as part of the stimulus package. The stimulus may have been a complete failure here in America, but I'm sure the companies in China, Spain, and South Korea sure loved pocketing our money.
35) In a more competent administration, what happened with Johnson Controls, Inc would have been a big scandal. That company was given 300 million dollars of stimulus money and used it to create.....150 jobs. That's 2 million dollars per job created. Unfortunately, the Obama Administration has performed so poorly, in so many ways, that this minor disaster has barely even been a blip on the radar.
36) George W. Bush started the TARP program, but Barack Obama supported the program, continued it, and made it worse. The cost of bailing out all those "too big to fail" fatcats who wanted capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down? At least 34 billion dollars of taxpayer money although that dramatically understates the real cost because many banks paid back the TARP money with other funds that they received from the government.
37) We've had the longest streak of above 8% unemployment under Barack Obama since the Great Depression. Meanwhile, according to the Obama Administration, his stimulus bill was supposed to have produced 5.6% unemployment by now.
38) The terrible jobless numbers don't really give you a sense of how badly Obama has done as President because those who quit looking for jobs are no longer counted in the numbers. We've had the most rapid decline in labor force participation in recent history under Obama -- from 65.7% in 2009 to 63.7% in 2012.
39) Under Barack Obama's leadership, we've had the weakest economic recovery of any country, anywhere in the world since 1970
40) "Look, I’m at the start of my administration. One nice thing about the situation I find myself in is that I will be held accountable. You know, I’ve got four years. And, you know, a year from now I think people are going to see that we’re starting to make some progress. But there’s still going to be some pain out there. If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition." -- Barack Obama on the economy in February of 2009
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Point 1:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-medicare-cuts-obamacare-romney-and-ryan-20120821,0,7510717.story
Point 2:
The stimulus plan was the result of trying to recover from the deepest Recession since the Great Depression which was caused by our previous Republican President.
Point 3:
Speculation and conjecture. NeoCons using scare tactics with no viable proof the conpiracies will actually happen.
Point 4:
The inane philosophy of simply cutting federal spending to the bone will never eliminate the deficit. Yu hae to also increase revenues. Tell me how to raise capital in the Federal Government without raising taxes.
Point 6:
Refer to Point 2
Point 7:
The budget has never been passed because both sides are unable to come up with a compromise on what needs to be contained in that budget. The House and Bonehead and Co. shoves a budget plan down Obama's throat knowing that it would never get passed because it contains agenda's that Obama promised he would never pass or do. Obama sent the House alternatives to his plan, and they threw it in the garbage.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/budget-spin/
Point 8:
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/dueling-debt-deceptions/
I could continue with the rest, but you get my point....
 

sweat90lx

Member
I have almost given up. 0bama or Romney will have this country destroyed by the end of the next term.
I am at the point I hope states start ceding. The federal government has grown too large and controls way too much.
There are may private practice doctors that will not accept medicare. They will mostly likely not accept 0bamacare either when they know they wont get paid or be delays in payment. I still dont understand on how the government can require you to have health insurance.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat90lx http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489534
I still dont understand on how the government can require you to have health insurance.
Who do you think pays for the medical care if you can't afford to?
My last 2 week hospital stay cost $75.000.00+ That does not include all the doctors or the MRI and cat scans...they get paid separately, those bills are still rolling in. I have insurance, they pay 95% of the bill....I pay the 5% and a co-pay. I don't get a free ride from the state because I have an income, yeah...that's fair isnt it? My disabilty income that I earned from working 35+ years is slowly being drained away to pay my portion of the medical bills. I can't imagine the bills for folks with cancer or children born sick.
Right now if you don't work and make enough money, the state gives you aid and pays your bill. The tax paying public then gets to foot your bill....Oh that's right, that is from my pocket too.
Hell...it just isn't fair to make everyone buy insurance when folks like me can pay for you... may not be popular, but I will be hoping for Obamacare, because Flowercare is about drained dry.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat90lx http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489534
I have almost given up. 0bama or Romney will have this country destroyed by the end of the next term.
I am at the point I hope states start ceding. The federal government has grown too large and controls way too much.
There are may private practice doctors that will not accept medicare. They will mostly likely not accept 0bamacare either when they know they wont get paid or be delays in payment. I still dont understand on how the government can require you to have health insurance.
Because the alternative is those without insurance have two choices - 1) Spend their life savings and all disposable income paying for health services in the case of a catastrophic medical condition (stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc), or 2) Use the optional medical assistance by going to their local county or state hospital where they will receive free healthcare due to those facilities inability to deny care base on local laws. In both of these situation, taxpayers will end up paying for their services, Option 1 will have to claim welfare, and Option 2 gets free medical care from the taxpayers who pay for those county and state facilities. You have almost 50 million Americans who can't afford to pay the current premium rates for basic healthcare services that also cover catastrophic events. If they can afford to pay them, the deductibles and Out-Of-Pocket Maxes are so high, they'd end up in the Option 1 scenario aboe anyways. ACA provides hugh insurance pools where the uninsured are able to acquire healthcare benefits at more affordable rates.
Let's look at the Republican alternative - the Ryan Voucher Plan. Ryan wants to allow anyone 55 and older to remain on the current Medicare system, but gives those under that age some form of "voucher" whereby they can go purchase insurance from a designated group of providers based on their medical needs and how much they want to spend on healthcare. Now this doesn't force people to buy insurance, but scientific facts state that once you reach the age of 65 or more, your body begins to break down, and you begin having more health issues. If we stay status quo, you'd get the current government-entitled healthcare (i.e. Medicare) that you've been FORCED to pay for ever since you started working your first job. So exactly what is the difference between this plan and Obamacare? Furthermore, how is Ryan expecting to pay for it? Reports I've read stated these vouchers would be worth anywhere between $8,000 - $14,000 per year based on income. Right now a person working pays an effective 2.9% in taxes for Medicare deductions (1.45% paid by employee, 1.45% paid by employer). So for a person who makes $60,000/year, their combined annual payment in Medicare taxes is $1,740. If the Ryan Plan gives them $10,000/year, where is Ryan's plan going to make up the $8,260 in difference that the beneficiary isn't paying into that system?
As far as doctors and medical provider dropping coverage - Another case of speculation and conjecture. You hear these stories where these physicians claim their going to stop their practices once Obamacare goes into effect. What are these people going to do for income if they quit their day job playing doctor? There's just so many clinical research and teaching jobs to go around. Those also would pay half of what they could still make if they maintain their practices when Obamacare does go into effect. You're telling me an Oncologist, Neurologist, Cardiologist, or any other highly specialized physician is going to close shop because they can only make $100 for that 30 minute office visit, as opposed to the $250 they charge now? A cardiologist can only charge $3000 to spend a couple hours putting in a heart stent, instead of the $6,000+ today for the same procedure? Yeaaaahhhhh.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489558
Who do you think pays for the medical care if you can't afford to?
My last 2 week hospital stay cost $75.000.00+ That does not include all the doctors or the MRI and cat scans...they get paid separately, those bills are still rolling in. I have insurance, they pay 95% of the bill....I pay the 5% and a co-pay. I don't get a free ride from the state because I have an income, yeah...that's fair isnt it? My disabilty income that I earned from working 35+ years is slowly being drained away to pay my portion of the medical bills. I can't imagine the bills for folks with cancer or children born sick.
Right now if you don't work and make enough money, the state gives you aid and pays your bill. The tax paying public then gets to foot your bill....Oh that's right, that is from my pocket too.
Hell...it just isn't fair to make everyone buy insurance when folks like me can pay for you... may not be popular, but I will be hoping for Obamacare, because Flowercare is about drained dry.
Not the government. My wife had to have an emergency hysterectomy in 2008. She had to take emergency leave for 4 months and my measly $26k a year was too much to get any help from the government, and that's with two dependent children. It came to a little over $25k. We are down to the last $180. So, it is a GIANT lie that the government will pay for medical care. The collection agencies would be out of business if that was the case. I don't know where this lie comes from-the government doesn't pay if you have any income-they only pay for indigents who won't pay for this sack of crap "insurance" anyways. BTW, I still can't afford the premiums, deductibles and co-pays. So, as part of the "uninsured", I have to pay a huge yearly tax because I can't afford this steaming pile of dog excrement. Obamacare does nothing to help the lower-middle class. It sucks funds I already don't have so that the little health care I can pay for myself, I no longer will.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Flower, we are still having to pay taxes to support those who can't or won't work and always have. This just makes it much more difficult for the lower-middle class to afford healthcare.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489565
Flower, we are still having to pay taxes to support those who can't or won't work and always have. This just makes it much more difficult for the lower-middle class to afford healthcare.
While it's very, very true that we will continue to pay for those who can't or won't....How can the lower middle class {Me by the way) have it more difficult to afford healthcare? I already pay for insurance, and I pay what my insurance does not cover (it takes me a while since I have to make payments on it). I pay my taxes so I also support those who can't and don't pay.
Are you referring to the working poor {what I call folks like me) that just decided to float thru and just not pay their bills? What about mandatory car insurance, I suppose folks who think they drive okay should not be forced to buy insurance for that either, I was around when the government decided everyone MUST have car insurance. I heard the same complaints, it will just make it harder for the lower class to be able to afford a car to go to work.
The hospitals can not refuse care for anyone based on insurance, there will always be a free ride for those on state aid. The only ones paying are folks like myself. Many who make the same income as I do, that opts out of having insurance...goes in and gets care and tosses the bills aside...so the hospital and doctors just charges more to the folks who are paying.
So I conclude that those who have just been refusing to purcase insurance will now have to. The poor will always get state aid, they just have to apply and show thier income. I would like to spend more money on my fish tank addiction, I just for some reason think I should pay my bills first....HHMMM maybe the right word is not working poor, maybe I should call my class of people the working idiots..because everyone else is getting by free and clear on healthcare, to spend their money on getting stoned purchasing drugs and beer, the national past time of Americans.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Nobody's going to pay less-not you or me. In fact, we are going to pay a lot more, so you will have far less to spend on your tanks. It makes it worse because now the little money I had for healthcare will go to pay a tax to support those who are already getting free healthcare and I am already paying taxes to support. I won't be able to afford the premiums, deductibles and co-pays when it kicks in, just as I can't now, so it punishes me and my family and takes away the little money I had for healthcare now. You and I are already paying for the leeches, this just adds a massive mountain of bureaucracy and cost and saves you nothing. And I will repeat: it is a LIE that the government pays for those who don't. I made $26k the year my wife had emergency surgery. I had to pay it and got turned over to collection agencies. It is the leeches that get it paid for by the government now and after this thing takes effect, it'll still be the leeches that benefit then-it's just going to cost a lot more.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489602
Nobody's going to pay less-not you or me. In fact, we are going to pay a lot more, so you will have far less to spend on your tanks. It makes it worse because now the little money I had for healthcare will go to pay a tax to support those who are already getting free healthcare and I am already paying taxes to support. I won't be able to afford the premiums, deductibles and co-pays when it kicks in, just as I can't now, so it punishes me and my family and takes away the little money I had for healthcare now. You and I are already paying for the leeches, this just adds a massive mountain of bureaucracy and cost and saves you nothing. And I will repeat: it is a LIE that the government pays for those who don't. I made $26k the year my wife had emergency surgery. I had to pay it and got turned over to collection agencies. It is the leeches that get it paid for by the government now and after this thing takes effect, it'll still be the leeches that benefit then-it's just going to cost a lot more.
Well...you see, that's the problem, you made $26K....to get a free ride you have to stay home and not work. Truth is...if you had insurance
it would have paid the lion share of your wifes medical bills and you would have the extra to pay the taxes for the those who can't and won't work. That's how I manage.
People like yourself that are working and not purchasing insurance, because you think the premiums are too expensive.. You are gambling that you won't get sick and need it....Just like the folks who figured they were good drivers and didn't need insurance. One good accident and the world comes falling down on your heads.
So now you will be forced to get insurance...believe it not, it will save you money in the long run...one good hospital stay and it will more than pay for what you would have been out of pocket, and let you keep some cash in your pocket instead of paying on a HUGE bill or letting it go to collections. I pay the deductibles, the co-pays and the premiums and believe me it was a great deal less than the $75.000.00+all the doctors and MRI, and CT scans that I would have had to pay out of pocket. Guess what...I still have money to spend on my tanks.
Not to even scratch the surface...Obama claims
( I don't believe politicians) he wants to tax the rich, and get the extra money from there. I say we could have used the billions (or is it trillions) that was spent to look at Mars photos. Not that Mars isn't cool to look at, but why go site seeing when there are huge bills waiting at home to be paid.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489602
Nobody's going to pay less-not you or me. In fact, we are going to pay a lot more, so you will have far less to spend on your tanks. It makes it worse because now the little money I had for healthcare will go to pay a tax to support those who are already getting free healthcare and I am already paying taxes to support. I won't be able to afford the premiums, deductibles and co-pays when it kicks in, just as I can't now, so it punishes me and my family and takes away the little money I had for healthcare now. You and I are already paying for the leeches, this just adds a massive mountain of bureaucracy and cost and saves you nothing. And I will repeat: it is a LIE that the government pays for those who don't. I made $26k the year my wife had emergency surgery. I had to pay it and got turned over to collection agencies. It is the leeches that get it paid for by the government now and after this thing takes effect, it'll still be the leeches that benefit then-it's just going to cost a lot more.
Take a look at the charts in this link. With Obamacare, a family of four where the entire household income is $31,900/year, will pay a Maximum Out-Of-Pocket premium of $992/YEAR. That's $82.67/month. Instead of spending a few thousand on a cache of guns and ammo, you could probably afford this amount for health insurance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Effective_by_January_1.2C_2014
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489562
Because the alternative is those without insurance have two choices - 1) Spend their life savings and all disposable income paying for health services in the case of a catastrophic medical condition (stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc), or 2) Use the optional medical assistance by going to their local county or state hospital where they will receive free healthcare due to those facilities inability to deny care base on local laws. In both of these situation, taxpayers will end up paying for their services, Option 1 will have to claim welfare, and Option 2 gets free medical care from the taxpayers who pay for those county and state facilities. You have almost 50 million Americans who can't afford to pay the current premium rates for basic healthcare services that also cover catastrophic events. If they can afford to pay them, the deductibles and Out-Of-Pocket Maxes are so high, they'd end up in the Option 1 scenario aboe anyways. ACA provides hugh insurance pools where the uninsured are able to acquire healthcare benefits at more affordable rates.
Let's look at the Republican alternative - the Ryan Voucher Plan. Ryan wants to allow anyone 55 and older to remain on the current Medicare system, but gives those under that age some form of "voucher" whereby they can go purchase insurance from a designated group of providers based on their medical needs and how much they want to spend on healthcare. Now this doesn't force people to buy insurance, but scientific facts state that once you reach the age of 65 or more, your body begins to break down, and you begin having more health issues. If we stay status quo, you'd get the current government-entitled healthcare (i.e. Medicare) that you've been FORCED to pay for ever since you started working your first job. So exactly what is the difference between this plan and Obamacare? Furthermore, how is Ryan expecting to pay for it? Reports I've read stated these vouchers would be worth anywhere between $8,000 - $14,000 per year based on income. Right now a person working pays an effective 2.9% in taxes for Medicare deductions (1.45% paid by employee, 1.45% paid by employer). So for a person who makes $60,000/year, their combined annual payment in Medicare taxes is $1,740. If the Ryan Plan gives them $10,000/year, where is Ryan's plan going to make up the $8,260 in difference that the beneficiary isn't paying into that system?
As far as doctors and medical provider dropping coverage - Another case of speculation and conjecture. You hear these stories where these physicians claim their going to stop their practices once Obamacare goes into effect. What are these people going to do for income if they quit their day job playing doctor? There's just so many clinical research and teaching jobs to go around. Those also would pay half of what they could still make if they maintain their practices when Obamacare does go into effect. You're telling me an Oncologist, Neurologist, Cardiologist, or any other highly specialized physician is going to close shop because they can only make $100 for that 30 minute office visit, as opposed to the $250 they charge now? A cardiologist can only charge $3000 to spend a couple hours putting in a heart stent, instead of the $6,000+ today for the same procedure? Yeaaaahhhhh.
Ever try to find a doc that accepts medicare? I didn't think so. Even before 0bama's raid on the fund it was hard. Now doctors are going to refuse to accept any new medicare patients, that is a sure bet. If it cost you 75.00 to provide a service and you were only going to be paid 55.00 what would you do?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489616
Take a look at the charts in this link. With Obamacare, a family of four where the entire household income is $31,900/year, will pay a Maximum Out-Of-Pocket premium of $992/YEAR. That's $82.67/month. Instead of spending a few thousand on a cache of guns and ammo, you could probably afford this amount for health insurance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Effective_by_January_1.2C_2014
Why should my taxes and insurance premiums be jacked up to provide insurance subsidies for someone too stupid to understand you shouldn't have kids until you are in a financial position to be able to care for them?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

 
Ever try to find a doc that accepts medicare? I didn't think so. Even before 0bama's raid on the fund it was hard. Now doctors are going to refuse to accept any new medicare patients, that is a sure bet. If it cost you 75.00 to provide a service and you were only going to be paid 55.00 what would you do?
Actually, the Obamacare act changes the pay structure to doctors for medicare to extreme lows. Doctors will get less than what those that accept medicaid actually get. Ask ANYONE ever on Medicaid how hard it is to find a place to accept it. And keep in mind, these are the poorest of the poor and have travekl great distances to find a doc to accept medicaid.
You will have far less docs accepingt medicare a couple years after this passes.And it will screw everyone that has already paid into the mandatory medicare system. All this to still have 30 million people without insurance, according to the CBO.
 

bubblegurl

Member
Well your American tax dollars are now also going to chase my daughters dead beat dad who moved to Missouri, then Oklahoma over 2 years ago. Both the Canadian and American govts gave him a free pass to move when he owes over $40k to support 4 kids. I tried stepping in front of this before he moved and was told basically nothing can be done to stop him from going. He's uneducated, driving trailers across the US, his wife is a horse massage therapist, so it's not like they are bringing a wealth if knowledge or skills, just trying to escape their responsibilities here. Oh ya, his wife also left behind kids so I'm sure they are chasing her as well.
I'm doing what I can to change things, writing letters to the gov, trying to get media attention to rally support, and I don't plan on stopping. Instead of bitching about what the candidates are saying and doing and what's wrong, why not do your part to make a difference? I didn't vote for the current government, doesn't matter who is in power, politicians have their own agendas and will tell the people what they want to hear. Sitting on a fish forum debating issues are fine, but if you really care about making a difference, get off your computers and do something about it. Run for office, find someone you can support and rally for them. Hate to say it, but arguing here seems a bit pointless and silly as it really isn't going to change anything.
Just my 0.02
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Hate to say it, but arguing here seems a bit pointless and silly as it really isn't going to change anything.
Just my 0.02
How many views do these threads get? People that don't post in them read them. And it just might make them think "I never looked at it that way" or "that is some good information."
Discussing over the net does reach people. The last election, there were several that came here and rallied and debated for obama...after the election, they disappeared.....you don't think their points discussed on this forum, assisted getting Obama elected?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489620
Why should my taxes and insurance premiums be jacked up to provide insurance subsidies for someone too stupid to understand you shouldn't have kids until you are in a financial position to be able to care for them?
So I guess you want our Federal Government to dictate how many kids a person is allowed to have? Sounds like Communist China to me. Nothing like a little stereotyping to make your day.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
So I guess you want our Federal Government to dictate how many kids a person is allowed to have?  Sounds like Communist China to me.  Nothing like a little stereotyping to make your day.
Why would they have to dictate how many kids they are allowed to have?
 
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