The Truth About "Sandsifters"

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saxman

Guest
this is something that has kinda bugged me for awhile, so i'm taking the lead from Joe, and getting it off my chest:
[soapbox]
tanks do not "need" sandsifters! first, let's look at WHY these critters do what they do. they aren't simply cleaning your substrate, they are DEPLETING it of all of the beneficial fauna that lives within it, which includes worms, pods, bacteria, etc. why? because that is what these sandsifters eat, and is also why many of them fail to thrive in our aquaria. once the fauna is stripped from the substrate, these fish/starfish often succumb due to starvation as many of them don't wean onto prepared foods well enuff to survive long term.
IMHO, the belief that sifters are necessary is rooted back in the old FW tank days of vacuuming gravel, and early SW days when CC was the substrate of choice, which also requires vacuuming. BTW, CC isn't a proper substrate for sifters.
also, most sifting fish usually end up dumping the sand right where you DON'T want it, like all over your clams or coral.
critters like Nassarius and Cerith snails turn the substrate over and add the benefit of being active members of the CUC. if that isn't enuff stirring, it's pretty simple to just push your fingers into the substrate (just push, don't turn it over!).
now, it's one thing if a person wants to keep these critters because they like them and want to work to keep them thriving by ensuring their proper nutrition, but leaving them on their own just isn't responsible fishkeeping. everyone talks about keeping dragonettes irresponsibly, but IMHO, sandsifters deserve the same courtesy.
i just wanted to point this out so folks aren't keeping these critters for the wrong reasons...there, i feel better now! [/soapbox]
 

speg

Active Member
If you really believe you need something to churn the sand then get a pistol shrimp.. they shoot sand everywhere :)
 

mony97

Member
Good post sax! I've thought about this a few times and was never sure of an answer and always questioned my own reasoning, now I know I was at least on the right track with my knowledge :)
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by saxman
http:///forum/post/3250684
this is something that has kinda bugged me for awhile, so i'm taking the lead from Joe, and getting it off my chest:
[soapbox]
tanks do not "need" sandsifters! first, let's look at WHY these critters do what they do. they aren't simply cleaning your substrate, they are DEPLETING it of all of the beneficial fauna that lives within it, which includes worms, pods, bacteria, etc. why? because that is what these sandsifters eat, and is also why many of them fail to thrive in our aquaria. once the fauna is stripped from the substrate, these fish/starfish often succumb due to starvation as many of them don't wean onto prepared foods well enuff to survive long term.
IMHO, the belief that sifters are necessary is rooted back in the old FW tank days of vacuuming gravel, and early SW days when CC was the substrate of choice, which also requires vacuuming. BTW, CC isn't a proper substrate for sifters.
also, most sifting fish usually end up dumping the sand right where you DON'T want it, like all over your clams or coral.
critters like Nassarius and Cerith
snails turn the substrate over and add the benefit of being active members of the CUC. if that isn't enuff stirring, it's pretty simple to just push your fingers into the substrate (just push, don't turn it over!).
now, it's one thing if a person wants to keep these critters because they like them and want to work to keep them thriving by ensuring their proper nutrition, but leaving them on their own just isn't responsible fishkeeping. everyone talks about keeping dragonettes irresponsibly, but IMHO, sandsifters deserve the same courtesy.
i just wanted to point this out so folks aren't keeping these critters for the wrong reasons...there, i feel better now! [/soapbox]

I can appreciate the need to vent…However even the snails you mentioned are feeding from the sand. The sand sifter is also a part of the CUC...I like white clean sand, to me it looks better, and looks is what a saltwater tank is all about.
I like my sand sifter goby, he has more personality than any of my other fish, save the lawnmower blenny. A nice refugium will take care of copepods and replenishing the fauna.
In fact I love my sand sifter so much that I arrange my coral at a slant so he does them no harm with dumping sand on them. The fish tank is his world and if he wants to rearrange the sand to his liking…so be it, that what makes him so much fun to watch.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3250812

I can appreciate the need to vent…However even the snails you mentioned are feeding from the sand. The sand sifter is also a part of the CUC...I like white clean sand, to me it looks better, and looks is what a saltwater tank is all about.
I like my sand sifter goby, he has more personality than any of my other fish, save the lawnmower blenny. A nice refugium will take care of copepods and replenishing the fauna.
In fact I love my sand sifter so much that I arrange my coral at a slant so he does them no harm with dumping sand on them. The fish tank is his world and if he wants to rearrange the sand to his liking…so be it, that what makes him so much fun to watch.
As Sax pointed out, if you are keeping a sand-sifting fish because you like/enjoy them, more power to ya. But if you keep a diamond-spot goby simply because he keeps cyano from growing on your sand, that's where the issue lies. I have seen more then just a coincidental amount of horrid underweight sand-sifters.
While a refugium is a great source for copepods growouts, I definitely disagree that they're an adequate source for fauna.
Originally Posted by NanoMantis

http:///forum/post/3250915
The what is a better way to prevent extremely fast growing diatom algae on your sand bed?
Not to be blunt, but they shouldn't be needed. Through proper stocking-levels, adequate filtration, sufficient water changes, and correct flow, tanks can be maintained with pearly white sand with little to no assistance from CUC.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by NanoMantis
http:///forum/post/3250915
The what is a better way to prevent extremely fast growing diatom algae on your sand bed?
Let it thrive then die off on it's own. Once the silicates in the water column are expended, it'll die off.
Addressing algae with sifters is attacking the symptom, not the cause.
 

spanko

Active Member
Hey Lois.
Type into a google search;
saltwaterfish.com: the name of the thread you are looking for
 
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saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3250812

I can appreciate the need to vent…However even the snails you mentioned are feeding from the sand.
yes, but they are not predatory...we're talking carrion and detritus (Nassarius) and algae (Ceriths).
like i said, it's fine to keep a fish because you like it and are prepared to care for it, but 'sandsifters' are NOT the magic bullet for a clean substrate or a substitute for good husbandry.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
on the sandsifters. Now a good rant on the worthlessness and destructiveness of hermit crabs would be timely. (Including the marketing genius of the inventor of the "CUC", otherwise known as the "Trigger Happy Meal".) I'm not knocking most snails, just the crabs and packaged "CUC".
RE: The diatoms. BTW, they aren't an algae. Any phosphate remover will almost instantly remove silicates as well. This is suggested as a one-time only application to clear up a diatom explosion. In a mature tank, find and cure the cause and diatoms won't be a problem. Don't depend on continued use of the phos-remover, or you could be masking a serious problem.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
so i'm taking the lead from Joe, and getting it off my chest:
Now a martini with Gray Goose vodka and a Splash of Lillet and all is right with the world
Good thread my friend
 

socalnano24

Active Member
Early on in this hobby for me I was told to get a diamond goby by my local fish store to clear up cyano issue, and the exact process of events happened that has been described here.
The goby did great for a while, then started to look scrawny and wouldn't accept any prepared foods then died. Subsequently following his time in the tank the tank had an even higher cyano and algae outbreak, which I'm sure was partially attributed to loss of an effective nitrate converting sand bed; after another month everything went back to normal.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3251499
Now a martini with Gray Goose vodka and a Splash of Lillet and all is right with the world
Good thread my friend
Joe, I always assumed, because of your unusually high degree of sophistication in all things pleasurable, that you would know that the perfect martini demands the perfect GIN. Perfectly clean ice, in the perfect glass, and Cork Gin reassures me that our Maker knows what He's doing. (A single drop of a good dry vermouth is permissible)
 
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saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3251547
Joe, I always assumed, because of your unusually high degree of sophistication in all things pleasurable, that you would know that the perfect martini demands the perfect GIN. Perfectly clean ice, in the perfect glass, and Cork Gin reassures me that our Maker knows what He's doing. (A single drop of a good dry vermouth is permissible)
agreed...i'm a gin man as well, altho i prefer a Gibson (something about those little cocktail onions soaked in the alcohol, i suspect).
 

socalnano24

Active Member
Yah I'm more of a caddilac margarita on the rocks man myself. Reposado Corralejo with sweet and sour in lieu of "margarita mix" a bit of lime juice topped with some grand marnier
 
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