Think I Realized What the Deal is.

paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Okay so I talked to a guy at the LSF (the only one who I can really talk to and he'll actually helped). I explained to him everything and the whole situation and he seems to think that my problem isnt phosphates, but dissolved organics. Detritus, food particulates, coral mucus, etc.. He said we cant treat the source, since it being everything living in the tank, but the two things he would recommend is keeping up the water changes and to buy a protein skimmer. Ill be getting a protein skimmer (since its been on the list for the tank for a while) for my birthday next week.
 
fishieness

fishieness

Active Member
Originally Posted by paintballer768
http:///forum/post/2666654
I dont test for phosphates. Every 3 months or so I add a SeaChem Phosguard, which is supposed to remove them from the water. Last time I did one was a month or two ago.
Test for phosphates. WHile the seachem phosguard will remove phosphates, it is an aluminum based product. Like all the other ones, it only works for about 7 days and will then stop working and start releasing all sorts of bad things back in the water. I'm pretty sure it says so even on the bottle to only use for a few days at a time... That is my diagnosis. Get a phosphate test kit and some actual phosphate remover. ANything that is ferric-oxide based such as phosban.
Also, I doubt it is dissolved organics. While they can affect sps coloration, you shouldn't notice it THAT badly when your nitrates are still 0. Without a protein skimmer, it is very likely that you have a good amount in there, but i can also garentee that many people keep sps no problem with more organics than you. I think a protein skimmer would definitely help the situation, but not solely because of DOCs.
I would bet on phosphates.
ALso, check the distilled water. Some companies that bottle it actually add phosphates to the water as a preservative and to prevent any bacteria blooms.
Also start rising your frozen food with filtered water before feeding it to your fish/corals.
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Originally Posted by fishieness
http:///forum/post/2677658
Test for phosphates. WHile the seachem phosguard will remove phosphates, it is an aluminum based product. Like all the other ones, it only works for about 7 days and will then stop working and start releasing all sorts of bad things back in the water. I'm pretty sure it says so even on the bottle to only use for a few days at a time... That is my diagnosis. Get a phosphate test kit and some actual phosphate remover. ANything that is ferric-oxide based such as phosban.
Also, I doubt it is dissolved organics. While they can affect sps coloration, you shouldn't notice it THAT badly when your nitrates are still 0. Without a protein skimmer, it is very likely that you have a good amount in there, but i can also garentee that many people keep sps no problem with more organics than you. I think a protein skimmer would definitely help the situation, but not solely because of DOCs.
I would bet on phosphates.
ALso, check the distilled water. Some companies that bottle it actually add phosphates to the water as a preservative and to prevent any bacteria blooms.
Also start rising your frozen food with filtered water before feeding it to your fish/corals.
Hmm I didnt know that about the phosphates in the distilled water. Im going to get the protein skimmer for sure, but I may hold off on buying a new bulb and go for the phosphate kit. Thanks for the info.
If phosphates be the issue, then I can definitely understand that because I use about 2-3 gallons of distilled water for topoffs weekly.
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Before I test, do you think CVS brand uses it? Just to give me a wild idea what to expect. If it does come up with a high reading, Im buying an RO/DI unit asap
 
sly

sly

Active Member
Did your sps start bleaching before or after you cleaned your glass top? It could be suffering from photo shock and may need to be reacclimated to your lighting intensity.
Also, I think a 50% weekly water change is a bit much. Have you done this all the time? Are the temp, pH and salinity readings exactly the same as your tank water when you add it in?
During the process of changing your water and cleaning your top, is there any chance that you got some contaminate in the water? Lotion from your hands? Glass cleaner, etc.?
How much to you top off when you add distilled water? If you are adding cold water could there be a chance that you are temperature shocking your system? On a tank that small, 2 gallons of top-off would translate into a ~10% increase in tank volume with cold, low salinity water.
With all the changes you are making to your system, you could just be simply stressing it out too much. Temperature shock, rapid changes in salinity, photo shock, possible contamination from your hands or cleaners... and as others have said, phosphate buildup due to possible poor top off water quality.
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sly
http:///forum/post/2678590
Did your sps start bleaching before or after you cleaned your glass top? It could be suffering from photo shock and may need to be reacclimated to your lighting intensity. They started bleaching before, and when I did clean the salt buildup from the glass top, I used a wet paper towel, and dried it before I put it back over the tank.
Also, I think a 50% weekly water change is a bit much. Have you done this all the time? Are the temp, pH and salinity readings exactly the same as your tank water when you add it in? Yes they are. The pH may be slightly different because theres no light in my water containers, but they definitely are very close.
During the process of changing your water and cleaning your top, is there any chance that you got some contaminate in the water? Lotion from your hands? Glass cleaner, etc.?Its possible. I dont really have RO/DI water to wash my hands in, cuz if I washed them in tap, wouldnt it be just as bad?
How much to you top off when you add distilled water? If you are adding cold water could there be a chance that you are temperature shocking your system? On a tank that small, 2 gallons of top-off would translate into a ~10% increase in tank volume with cold, low salinity water. On average, about 1/4 to 1/2 gallon at a time. I try to let the water sit before I add it so it has a chance to get room temperature, as opposed to CVS's lower 70 degree stores.
With all the changes you are making to your system, you could just be simply stressing it out too much. Temperature shock, rapid changes in salinity, photo shock, possible contamination from your hands or cleaners... and as others have said, phosphate buildup due to possible poor top off water quality.
Thank you for the help. Im calling up a good friend of mine who should have a phosphate meter today, and if I can swing by, Im bringing a tank water sample and my distilled water.
Im starting to believe that it is the dissolved organics and the phosphates. I used a phosphate pad (for the amount of time on the box, so its not like it could have leeched back in the tank due to overuse) and that would tell me I have low phosphates, yet if the distilled was the source, then it should be pretty high.
I added a maxijet 900 to the tank a few days ago, to bounce the flow around the tank a bit more, and from the polyp extension Im getting (on my digitata frags), they seem to like it.
Maybe I should just try to get some LPS instead
 
sly

sly

Active Member
In the mean time you might consider using activated carbon in the sump... just in case there are unknown contaminates in the water.
IMO a skimmer is a must. There are just too many things that can inadvertently slip into the tank (soap from hands) and a skimmer removes them very well.
Let us know how your phosphates turn out. You might consider doing a copper test as well...
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Okay I talked to my friend's dad. He says that from the way the tank looks, and what we've already found out, hes willing to bet its a combination of 3 things. First, dissolved organics being the most important thing. He says I need to get a skimmer and I should notice a difference within 24 hours, and Im going to buy the skimmer next week. Second, phosphates in my top off water. He didnt have a phosphate test kit, but he says using distilled from large companys is borderline no-no because they do add phosphates, and he says that he can almost guarantee I will have a reading in my tank. And third is more a solution than a problem, but using RO/DI water. He says he will give me RO/DI water whenever I need it, all I need to do is come by and get it.
So Im going to be getting the skimmer and a phosphate kit., and will be using RO/DI water from now on. Skimmer and phosphate tester being ordered on the 16th, so we'll see how it helps out.
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sly
http:///forum/post/2678671
In the mean time you might consider using activated carbon in the sump... just in case there are unknown contaminates in the water.
IMO a skimmer is a must. There are just too many things that can inadvertently slip into the tank (soap from hands) and a skimmer removes them very well.
Let us know how your phosphates turn out. You might consider doing a copper test as well...
Yea I will get some carbon soon, I just went to the LFS yesterday so maybe towards the end of this week. Ill post my phosphate results and how the skimmer works out once I get them.
I dont think copper could be an issue, because I have no problem keeping inverts alive. Copper has a large effect on inverts right?
I hope this thread can be useful to some of the people thinking of keeping stonies.
 
fishieness

fishieness

Active Member
Originally Posted by paintballer768
http:///forum/post/2678752
Okay I talked to my friend's dad. He says that from the way the tank looks, and what we've already found out, hes willing to bet its a combination of 3 things. First, dissolved organics being the most important thing. He says I need to get a skimmer and I should notice a difference within 24 hours, and Im going to buy the skimmer next week. Second, phosphates in my top off water. He didnt have a phosphate test kit, but he says using distilled from large companys is borderline no-no because they do add phosphates, and he says that he can almost guarantee I will have a reading in my tank. And third is more a solution than a problem, but using RO/DI water. He says he will give me RO/DI water whenever I need it, all I need to do is come by and get it.
So Im going to be getting the skimmer and a phosphate kit., and will be using RO/DI water from now on. Skimmer and phosphate tester being ordered on the 16th, so we'll see how it helps out.
what skimmer are you getting?
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
The Oceanic Biocube Skimmer. It should fit in the back of my Aquapod well, and Ive heard that its the best (in its category for nano in-tank skimmers.)
 
ibew41

ibew41

Active Member
why do you have the glass top on?your tank is kind of high with your bio load and no skimmer, but even with the skimmer you still might be to much for a 24g
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
My glass top? The tanks topless. And I dont think its too big a bioload. Ive been good at keeping the nitrates low. I know theyve only gotten over 10 on 1 occassion, and are since between 0 and 5 again. For fish I have a coral beauty angel and maroon clownfish. Both in the range of 2-3".
 
ibew41

ibew41

Active Member
My mistake on the glass I thought the glass you cleaned was on the tank not the light,but the angel will get big fast and a 24 is kind of small for them.your nitrate levels wont show the wast from the fish that will fall onto the corals that a skimmer gets out
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Oh no worries. I realize theyll get a bit larger and Ill have to find them a new home. I have it lined up for when the time comes. I will get arid of the CBA, since hes responsible for the elimination of my yellow polyps. My dad agrees that I have a bit much and that we can get arid of it when the time comes, to a good home. Ive got it approved (from the parental units) to get the skimmer once I get the money and the phosphate kit.
Once the dissolved organics go down, via skimmer, I really think my microbubble nuisance will go away as well.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
How long do you leave your lights on? Because to much light will also start bleaching coral after about 5 months.
If your zooxanthellae doesn't have enough dark, like any algae, it will stunt it's growth, and being that it's on a coral, it would appear bleached.
 
paintballer768

paintballer768

Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2679340
How long do you leave your lights on? Because to much light will also start bleaching coral after about 5 months.
If your zooxanthellae doesn't have enough dark, like any algae, it will stunt it's growth, and being that it's on a coral, it would appear bleached.
Theyre on a 10 hour timer. From 8 am to 6 pm. Would that be too much?
 
T

tizzo

Guest
That absolutely is to much.
If I were you, I'd cut it down to 6 or 7 hours a day for a while.
Monti caps need very little light. Of course they can be acclimated for more, but at lower light level, they have a very pretty polyp extension.
Our lights are to immulate high noon. 10 hours is a bit much.
9am to 3 pm is the natural sunlight at it's highest intensity on the reefs. o they don't need much more than that.

My own lights, come on at 10:30 and off at 6.
 
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