This is why I H A T E partisan politics...

[bionicarm]

Since Roe V Wade 54.5 Million abortions have been performed in this country. The number means there are more than 3,300 abortions daily and 137 abortions per hour every hour in the United States. Translated another way, an abortion is done about every 30 seconds in the United States.
How has this affected society? A recent study showed 2 in 5 women (sexually active and not wanting to get pregnant) do not use any form of birth control or std protection during sex.
How many premature babies have been "terminated" simply because a doctor said there was no reason to continue support? Many of those abortions occur in the first trimester. What you call a "baby", is nothing more than an embryo that has little bumps for arms and legs, no lungs that could sustain life, and no cognisant thought process. You can argue until eternity whose definition of "kill" is correct.
Those "2 of 5 women" are primarily low income with no financial support. Obamacare wants to provide free contraceptives and you sit here screaming "He can't do that! That goes against several religious doctrines!" Catholic don't believe in contraception, preferring the age-old "rythm method". Go do a study on how many of these women are tied to some religious faith that condemns the use of contraception. Several institutions have suggested that schools hand out free condoms or birth control pills to quell the huge teen pregnancy problems we have in this country. But the religious fanatics will have none of that. So which group is the major cause of all these unwanted pregnancies?

 

[bionicarm]

That is their choice. A preist or Pastor can perform the ceremony with no license if they wish. It just wouldn't be legally binding.
OK. And what good is that in today's society? Take your little broom ceremony and have your new wife try to use that to get a drivers license with her new name on it. Try using your Broom Marriage to get your spouse legally on any binding legal documents (home mortgage, car titles, car insurance, healthcare policies, life insurance, loans, etc.) That's the point. A marriage by a religious institution is only worth the paper it's written on. In means NOTHING otherwise. You'll be comforted to know that God is looking over you and you're doing the "holy thing" by getting married by a "man of the cloth". But if you walk out of the church and get run over by a semi, your significant other might as well keep walking, he/she will get nothing from you.

 

[bionicarm]

 I got married by a judge the second time around too, so what?  I could have just as easy jumped over a broom and had witnesses sign off on it and I would have all the protections and rights I do now. That's the point. You can give gays the same rights with a civil union and not screw with someone's religious rights. It isn't up to the government to redefine religious traditions. 
Again, where is the government "redefining religious traditions"? As I believe Jerth stated, "bonds" between two people were happening WAY before wht you call "religion" ever came into existence. Cave men did it, the Romans did it. Other cultures that believe in pagan gods or some rock formation had "marriage bonds". Somebody wrote something about a bond between a man and a woman in a couple of centuries-old book, and all of a sudden, they lay claim on what is defined as marriage. Texas A&M has many fine "traditions". Does that mean if anyone attempts to use those same traditions, we Aggies can tell them they can't do that?

 

[uneverno]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/300#post_3503776
Why? You can mock it all you want, but why?
I'm simply pointing out that we've made it legal to kill millions upon millions of kids, who couldn't do a dang thing to stop it... Roe vs wade has ended more people's lives than hitler ever did...
I'm just pointing out the obvious... Lets call it what it is. Am I a kook for Advocating for a baby who can't speak for himself?
How do you quantify atrocities? number of deaths? The Heinousness of the action? Taking advantage of the helpless?
You've yet to back up anything you've said. More than a couple thing arguments about guilt by association, Then just mockery. You've not defending your opionions on Ryan. Just called him a pathological liar, but won't say how.
You've claimed Walker was a puppet but won't support it.
you've tried to tie all republicans to a person they kicked out of the party, for all intents and purposes.
Back up what your claim...3
I named, as I recall, 5 points, on which Ryan was kooky. You responded to the one, which was guilt by association to Akin. Fair enough. I could say that Obama has been accused of the same re: Reverend Wright, though. On that level, one is no better than the other. As I've stated.
Respond to the other 4 and perhaps we can have a discussion.
I did say how he was a pathological liar. My particular favorite was his marathon time claim. There was also his public derision of the bail out funds and his private begging for them. This is easily verifiable information, but, ok, I didn't defend my opinions. lol
Here's your Gov Walker thingy: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/in-film-walker-talks-of-divide-and-conquer-strategy-with-unions-8o57h6f-151049555.html
By all means, keep buying the Koch brothers talking points.

 

[darthtang aw]

How many premature babies have been "terminated" simply because a doctor said there was no reason to continue support? Many of those abortions occur in the first trimester. What you call a "baby", is nothing more than an embryo that has little bumps for arms and legs, no lungs that could sustain life, and no cognisant thought process. You can argue until eternity whose definition of "kill" is correct.
Those "2 of 5 women" are primarily low income with no financial support. Obamacare wants to provide free contraceptives and you sit here screaming "He can't do that! That goes against several religious doctrines!" Catholic don't believe in contraception, preferring the age-old "rythm method". Go do a study on how many of these women are tied to some religious faith that condemns the use of contraception. Several institutions have suggested that schools hand out free condoms or birth control pills to quell the huge teen pregnancy problems we have in this country. But the religious fanatics will have none of that. So which group is the major cause of all these unwanted pregnancies?Did I use the term baby? No I do not believe I did. So your entire first paragraph is pointless.
You are also wrong on your percentages. 42% of all abortions were for women from families that fell below the poverty line. That statistic is 18% hirer from previous years. Meaning the poor are not and were not having the majority of abortions. That means the 2 out of 5 women are not poor. They are just stupid.

 

[darthtang aw]

Oh and at the current rate. 1 in 3 women will have an abortion by age 45. The majority of abortions occur in women age 25 to 35.
A strange statistic ......40% of all abortions are to adult women either married or living with their parents........ What would that imply?

 

[beth]

Here is an embryo at 8 weeks.

By five to six weeks, a human embryo's heartbeat is detectable by ultrasound. Also the brain and spinal cord starts to develop. By the 8th week the aortic and pulmonary valves of the heart have formed. The breathing tubes from the throat to the lungs have branched out and kidneys are producing urine. By eight weeks, the liver is visible on ultrasound as a bulge in the lower abdomen which is seen on these pics.
You can also clearly see human limbs, hands, feet, toes and fingers, eyes, head, The nose and mouth are forming as well. Not exactly unrecognizable stubs of cells.
Most women are just finding out that they are pregnant by 6 weeks. Already, they are clearly carrying a human being.
While an embryo is not sustainable outside of the womb or its mother, neither is a newly born baby sustainable without the care of adults.

 

[darthtang aw]

Thank you!

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503873
Again, where is the government "redefining religious traditions"? As I believe Jerth stated, "bonds" between two people were happening WAY before wht you call "religion" ever came into existence. Cave men did it, the Romans did it. Other cultures that believe in pagan gods or some rock formation had "marriage bonds". Somebody wrote something about a bond between a man and a woman in a couple of centuries-old book, and all of a sudden, they lay claim on what is defined as marriage. Texas A&M has many fine "traditions". Does that mean if anyone attempts to use those same traditions, we Aggies can tell them they can't do that?
Marriage was performed by churches before the united state was a country. Are the aggies a church?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503888
Did I use the term baby? No I do not believe I did. So your entire first paragraph is pointless.
You are also wrong on your percentages. 42% of all abortions were for women from families that fell below the poverty line. That statistic is 18% hirer from previous years. Meaning the poor are not and were not having the majority of abortions. That means the 2 out of 5 women are not poor. They are just stupid.
Now for the rest of the story. How many of those aborted babies would have been born if their Crack head alcoholic mother hadn't aborted them? How many would have suffered abuse at the hands of resentful people who didn't want and weren't ready for a kid? I am all for reducing the number of abortions by educating women about alternatives like adoption and aid programs to help the mother raise the kid but when it comes right down to it a lot of the women aborting kids aren't mother material. We have enough incompetent parents. I don't think a woman willing to end her baby's life for the sake of not wanting to get stretch marks or who is unwilling to quit partying for 9 months should be trusted with a kid anyway.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503896
Marriage was performed by churches before the united state was a country. Are the aggies a church?
You missed the point. You claim that religious institutions hold claim to marriages simply because its a "tradition". Texas A&M has many traditions, yet they don't have the power to hold claim to any of them. Just because it's a "tradition" to you, doesn't mean the entire country has to abide by that decree.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503889
Oh and at the current rate. 1 in 3 women will have an abortion by age 45. The majority of abortions occur in women age 25 to 35.
A strange statistic ......40% of all abortions are to adult women either married or living with their parents........ What would that imply?
That they have sex without protection? So do you want some government advocation that if any woman gets "accidentally" pregnant when proper contraception is available, they aren't allowed to get an abortion if that's what they choose? I don't sit and judge women for their indescretions. Again, that's their RIGHT to do whatever they want with their bodies. I think it should be illegal to smoke. I don't like it, and scientific studies have shown that it's the major contributor to heart and lung disease, which results in DEATH. So because I think people are KILLING themselves by smoking, should that be just cause to create a law to ban the practice? You try to justify banning abortions because the fetus doesn't have a say in the matter. My contention is that a fetus doesn't have the thought processes to make those kind of decisions, and ultimately it's the parents right to choose what's best for their "child". As I said, if a baby comes out premature, you seem to not have any issues with the parents KILLING it if they determine that it won't have a viable life it it survives.
So 45 million or so abortions occur every year. Let's say we forced these women to have these kids by banning all types of abortions. Who will take care and support these kids? The mother apparently doesn't want it. In most cases, the father is nowhere to be found. Are you going to take one of these kids in to care for? Do you think there's 45 million couples out there EVERY YEAR willing to adopt these kids? What do you do with the "crack babies", the deformed babies, the babies with serious defects? Would you as an adoptive parent want to take on those responsibilities and massive financial costs to raise one of these kids? Call it natural selection. Call it whatever you want. You complain about a few million illegals sneaking over here, sucking up your tax dollars, yet you have no problem with 45 million unwanted babies being born because of course "Someone will want them."
Slick Rick Perry now is pushing legislation to state that no legal abortions can occur after 20 weeks. Studies show that the majority of abortions occur before this timeframe, but abortion proponents state this is just another angle our illustrious Ultra Conservative Governor is trying to pull to ban abortions completely. Our economy is going down the tubes, our educational system sucks, Medicaid patients are losing their benefits, but Slick Ricky is only concerned about some unborn fetus he doesn't have the funds to take care of if they forced the mother to have it. And you wonder why he was a laughing stock during his Presidential run.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503907
You missed the point. You claim that religious institutions hold claim to marriages simply because its a "tradition". Texas A&M has many traditions, yet they don't have the power to hold claim to any of them. Just because it's a "tradition" to you, doesn't mean the entire country has to abide by that decree.
If the aggies were a church who had a tradition of a greased pig competition for the last 2000 years the government would be constitutionally prohibited from changing the law so they must chase a chicken instead.

 

[darthtang aw]

That they have sex without protection?  So do you want some government advocation that if any woman gets "accidentally" pregnant when proper contraception is available, they aren't allowed to get an abortion if that's what they choose?  I don't sit and judge women for their indescretions.  Again, that's their RIGHT to do whatever they want with their bodies.  I think it should be illegal to smoke.  I don't like it, and scientific studies have shown that it's the major contributor to heart and lung disease, which results in DEATH.  So because I think people are KILLING themselves by smoking, should that be just cause to create a law to ban the practice?  You try to justify banning abortions because the fetus doesn't have a say in the matter.  My contention is that a fetus doesn't have the thought processes to make those kind of decisions, and ultimately it's the parents right to choose what's best for their "child".  As I said, if a baby comes out premature, you seem to not have any issues with the parents KILLING it if they determine that it won't have a viable life it it survives.
So 45 million or so abortions occur every year.  Let's say we forced these women to have these kids by banning all types of abortions.  Who will take care and support these kids?  The mother apparently doesn't want it.  In most cases, the father is nowhere to be found.  Are you going to take one of these kids in to care for?  Do you think there's 45 million couples out there EVERY YEAR willing to adopt these kids?  What do you do with the "crack babies", the deformed babies, the babies with serious defects?  Would you as an adoptive parent want to take on those responsibilities and massive financial costs to raise one of these kids?  Call it natural selection.  Call it whatever you want.  You complain about a few million illegals sneaking over here, sucking up your tax dollars, yet you have no problem with 45 million unwanted babies being born because of course "Someone will want them."
Slick Rick Perry now is pushing legislation to state that no legal abortions can occur after 20 weeks.  Studies show that the majority of abortions occur before this timeframe, but abortion proponents state this is just another angle our illustrious Ultra Conservative Governor is trying to pull to ban abortions completely.  Our economy is going down the tubes, our educational system sucks, Medicaid patients are losing their benefits, but Slick Ricky is only concerned about some unborn fetus he doesn't have the funds to take care of if they forced the mother to have it.  And you wonder why he was a laughing stock during his Presidential run.
You sure do jump around alot.
No, it doesn't imply they have unprotected sex. Think a little harder.
Keep putting arguments in my mouth. A lot of what you sayI do, I have not done nor said.
Let me ask you a question. If a baby is born, and the mother suddenly decides they no longer want it, or it is born addicted to crack, or it has downs syndrome, or some other such issue, should they be allowed to kill it? If not, why not?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503928
You sure do jump around alot.
No, it doesn't imply they have unprotected sex. Think a little harder.
Keep putting arguments in my mouth. A lot of what you sayI do, I have not done nor said.
Let me ask you a question. If a baby is born, and the mother suddenly decides they no longer want it, or it is born addicted to crack, or it has downs syndrome, or some other such issue, should they be allowed to kill it? If not, why not?
So you categorize all these women as "irresponsible"? Immoral? One more time... THAT'S BETWEEN THEM AND GOD. Not the church, not some Pro-Life group, not the government.
So you're saying you've:
Never stated that a fetus doesn't have the opportunity or right to decide whether to be terminated or not.
Never voiced an opinion against illegal immigration in this country.
I don't have the patience to prove you wrong, but I suppose you can deny it if you so choose.
Of course not. But you haven't answered the question. What do you do with these 45 million unwanted babies once the mother says they don't want to have anything to do with them? Whose going to take them? Who pays the expense of raising them and taking care of their medical needs when they're dumped into the orphanages because no adoptive parents or foster homes want the unwanted burden? You can't possibly tell me there are homes for all these unwanted children. Our society and economy couldn't handle the influx of all these children every year. What would the US population be today if the government had forced all these women to keep these babies instead of allowing abortions all these years? I vision us becoming like China, and limiting the number of children any woman can have at any given time...

 

[darthtang aw]

So you categorize all these women as "irresponsible"?  Immoral?  One more time...  THAT'S BETWEEN THEM AND GOD.  Not the church, not some Pro-Life group, not the government.
So you're saying you've:
Never stated that a fetus doesn't have the opportunity or right to decide whether to be terminated or not.
Never voiced an opinion against illegal immigration in this country.
I don't have the patience to prove you wrong, but I suppose you can deny it if you so choose.
Of course not.  But you haven't answered the question.  What do you do with these 45 million unwanted babies once the mother says they don't want to have anything to do with them?  Whose going to take them?  Who pays the expense of raising them and taking care of their medical needs when they're dumped into the orphanages because no adoptive parents or foster homes want the unwanted burden?  You can't possibly tell me there are homes for all these unwanted children.  Our society and economy couldn't handle the influx of all these children every year.  What would the US population be today if the government had forced all these women to keep these babies instead of allowing abortions all these years?  I vision us becoming like China, and limiting the number of children any woman can have at any given time...
I have a stance against illegal immigration. You just don't understand my stance.
If I shoot a guy...is that between myself and god? Is it the governments business? I am not advocating government intervention here either. I am advocating government removal from the issue...including funding.
As to what gets done with all those babies? What happened to them before Roe V wade?

 

[darthtang aw]

  I vision us becoming like China, and limiting the number of children any woman can have at any given time...
Would you support this type of government intervention?

 

[bionicarm]

I have a stance against illegal immigration. You just don't understand my stance.
If I shoot a guy...is that between myself and god? Is it the governments business? I am not advocating government intervention here either. I am advocating government removal from the issue...including funding.
As to what gets done with all those babies? What happened to them before Roe V wade?
I don't understand it because you play this inane 20 Questions guessing game instead of simply stating your position. You answer a question with a question, or put this subjective statement out where I'm supposed to be some psychic and read your mind.
Shooting someone is not the same as an abortion. Plain and simple.
So the only issue Pro Lifers have with abortion is the "government involvement"? The government would've never had to get involved if the religious fanatics didn't make it a "moral" issue, or try bringing God into the equation. Government funding to Planned Parenthood isn't the only place that organization obtains funds. I suppose you'd prefer the women would go back to the pre Roe v. Wade days where abortions were performed in some unsanitary back room with an inexperienced individual, or better yet, a woman stuffing a coat hanger up her yahoo to perform the abortion herself. What happened to the kids? The majority of them were aborted, or women found other means to cause their bodies to have a miscarriage. Never bothered to look up the statistics. Probably not many out there because there weren't required records obtained like you get from Planned Parenthood. The funding for that organization is miniscule in comparison to a multitude of other pork-barreled legislation. Probably cost each taxpayer $2 in taxes, if that.

 

[bionicarm]

Would you support this type of government intervention?
Yopu're joking right? Remember, I'm Pro Choice. You're the one advocating we force these women to not be allowed to get an abortion for an unwanted baby, not me.
The way I see it, it's moot point anyways. Women have more choices today besides abortion to terminate a pregnancy, even before it starts. Just make the Day After Pill available over the counter and accessible to anyone who feels they need it, and the problem is solved.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/340#post_3503962
I don't understand it because you play this inane 20 Questions guessing game instead of simply stating your position. You answer a question with a question, or put this subjective statement out where I'm supposed to be some psychic and read your mind.
Shooting someone is not the same as an abortion. Plain and simple.
So the only issue Pro Lifers have with abortion is the "government involvement"? The government would've never had to get involved if the religious fanatics didn't make it a "moral" issue, or try bringing God into the equation. Government funding to Planned Parenthood isn't the only place that organization obtains funds. I suppose you'd prefer the women would go back to the pre Roe v. Wade days where abortions were performed in some unsanitary back room with an inexperienced individual, or better yet, a woman stuffing a coat hanger up her yahoo to perform the abortion herself. What happened to the kids? The majority of them were aborted, or women found other means to cause their bodies to have a miscarriage. Never bothered to look up the statistics. Probably not many out there because there weren't required records obtained like you get from Planned Parenthood. The funding for that organization is miniscule in comparison to a multitude of other pork-barreled legislation. Probably cost each taxpayer $2 in taxes, if that.
I dunno. We have secular morons who seem to promote abortion as a right of passage. I am not pro life but I find their extremism a lot more palatable then the left wing kooks.