Treatment for ich on lion?!?!

hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
I have in the past used copper or Malachite Green for treating ich. I Have been reading up on the hyposalinity but have never done this before little nervous about trying this. Also am curious on how with all my other fish in the tank my lion got ich seems weird to me. Recently I shut down my 75 and moved my rock from my 75 into my 125 and redid the rock scape. Before this I didn't have any problems with the lion but I did see my eyeline tang messing with him more then regular sense changing the rock work. Could this be why he got ich? Also after treating by putting him back in the same environment will this cause the ich to come back?
Temp- 80
Salinity- 1.025
Nitrite-0
Nitrate 10-20
Ammonia-0
alkalinity-3.6
Calcium-480
FISH:
Blue Throat Trigger
Eye line Tang
Blue face Angel
al-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">Snowflake eel
2 blue devils
3 Clowns
Black Volitan(fish with ich)
Possibly a Hippo Tang (not in tank yet was in 75 trying to decide what to do with)
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Ich is in your tank. The lion likely got it from the stress of moving things around, lowering his immune system. You cannot use either chemical in the display. Malachite isn't effective anyway. You have a couple of choices here. You can move all of your fish into a Qt (the old 75 would work well), treat ALL of your fish. Quarantine ALL new purchases and never have to worry about ich again, or you could just try to remove and treat the one fish. Treating only one fish means that you will be reintroducing him into a tank that has ich. Please understand that there has been a population explosion of ich now in the tank. If the other fish get stressed for any reason, they are highly likely to become infested as your lion has. Some people successfully run tanks with an ich ballance. If your fish are extremely healthy then they can live with ich in small populations. You have already had a stressed fish and the parasite population is high. It is up to you on what you want to do. We will help you with whatever way that you choose. Please have a QT cycled and ready though if needed.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
I can def treat them in the 75. I'm moving anyway and planned on putting them in the 75 anyway during the move. Should I hypo them? I've never had ich in my 125 before not sure how it got in there to start. The only problem is I have a sand bed in the 75 will this b a problem? Oh and should I treat the eel too. Not sure he will b happy with no rock to hide under. Thanks for the help.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
Does it matter that I got him out of the display right away? The ich was very slight on his fins think I got it early. None of the other fish have gotten it. I did treat with the malachite green right away and there is very very little of it left on him. I will treat everyone in the tank if you feel it is necessary. I got the malachite green idea from this site www.fishyfarmacy.com. I have to move them all anyway just didn't plan on putting them all in the same tank and I wanted to put my two anemones in the 75 as well, well I was moving the larger tank. And if I treat with medication I wont be able to do so. Please any advice will be very helpful.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
if your lion has ich all the fish have ich. the others are jsut not showing it externally. its in the sand, on the rocks, on the glass, its in the water.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
Soooo I can't treat the whole tank. And I think removing all the fish and putting them in a smaller tank will stress them out and make it worse. What about a UV Sterilizer on the DT will that help that tank and treat the lion with some meds?
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Do you have any inverts or corals?
if you think removing the fish will stress them out, Can you put all the live rock and (inverts/corals) in the 75G and hypo the DT???
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I'd be nervous hypoing the DT since it seems to be up in the air what happens to the good bacteria, pods ect when you put them in hypo.
Might come back to a dead tank.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
There is 2 anemone and numerous mushrooms and ricordea in there. And there is a lot of rock and what not in the 125 not sure it would all fit in the 75. Do you think hooking up a uv sterilizer would help? Lion looks like hes getting better Like I said I medicated him and he eats just fine so I've been putting extra vitamins in his food. Oh and I kinda medicated the 75 what a bad idea I know but I figured better there then leave him in the DT.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
IMO a uv sterilizer is worthless......Doing what you are doing, you will always have the threat of ich...the thing is though, ich attacks stressed unhealthy fish (usually)
If you can keep your fish VERY healthy....you may be able to keep them from having an outbreak.....key word here is MIGHT
AND the most important thing is this.....even if you DO NOT see the ich for months....or a year....it is still there....just waiting...lurking....for that stressed out sick fish to pounce on
It's a risk....you can also get a cleaner fish (like a wrasse of cleaner shrimp) THEY WILL NOT cure it though
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
UV's don't get all the ich, not really a viable option if you are tryig to get rid of the ich entirely.
If you are jsut trying to make your fish cozy in thier current living area and not try to eradicate the ich, then yes UV would help a bit to lessen the overall amount in the tank.
Keeping in mind that as time goes on even with healthy fish the amount of ich in the tank is always increasing, so next time you have a heater malfunction, power outage, add a new fish, move your rockwork, or something else that causes stress to the fish it may be too many ich and they just overwhlem the fish and kill it very quickly.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
Local pet sore says that I should get all the fish into my 75 then treat them then treat the 125 with kick ich. I guess its like a 14 day thing then from there do a large water change and run some carbon for a week. Then I should be in good shape and he also suggested buying a UV Sterilizer claims they do help. Sound ok??? I hate to putt chemicals in my DT but I guess its reef safe and I really don't want to kill my anemones. They claim I shouldn't hypo the DT because it will kill all the good stuff and the anemones, but I can't see how a chemical won't do all the same. I HATE YOU ICH!!!!
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWKFISH203 http:///forum/thread/382522/treatment-for-ich-on-lion#post_3339327
Local pet sore says that I should get all the fish into my 75 then treat them treat the 125 with kick ich. I guess its like a 14 day thing then from there do a large water change and run some carbon for a week. Then I should be in good shape and he also suggested buying a UV Sterilizer claims they do help. Sound ok??? I hate to putt chemicals in my DT but I guess its reef safe and I really don't want to kill my anemones. They claim I shouldn't hypo the DT because it will kill all the good stuff and the anemones, but I can't see how a chemical won't do all the same. I HATE YOU ICH!!!!

Just throwing in my .02. I had one fish that had a continual battle with ich. The only time any of the others seemed to have a problem is when I moved rocks around and it would clear up in a day. But... I wanted all the Ich out of the system. I have a 120 gal and thought moving my fish to a smaller tank would be too stressful for them so I moved all of my live rock and inverts to the smaller tank and decided to hypo the DT. I have read several places that hypo won't destroy your bacteria bed but it certainly did in my tank. The tank crashed within 4 days---I lost 3/4 of my fish, all of which appeared healthy before the hypo. I followed the instructions to a T for the hypo. My theory (for whatever that is worth) is that my "base rock and agronite" actually had alot more life in them then I realized and when the salinity dropped it killed whatever was in the rock and caused a massive ammonia spike. So after a 6 week battle, more water changes than I can count, and great saddness over losing several of our fish......the tank is now recycling and QT is ready. I hate using chemicals, although when we started using SeaChem's Prime and Stablitiy things got considerably better. Personally I have never heard of Kick Ick or a UV Sterilizer curring ick. I feed fresh food soaked with vitamins and garlic and until I did the hypo all but one was very healthy. If I had to do it over again I would cont. with the garlic, pull the one fish with ich out of the display, and pray for the best. Also, I have several rock anemones, most of which were attached to the live rock so they are currently in another tank, but a couple were too difficult to remove from the base rock so I left them in the DT and they have been fine. (I know you were talking about the chemicals killing them but I thought it was interesting that they survived the hypo)
Anyway.....BIG MISTAKE for me and nothing will ever go into the tank again without a 4-6 week QT--that was my biggest mistake of all. Good luck.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
Let me start off by saying sorry to hear you lost fish. I also have read things saying that people have lost fish doing hypo. I have also read things saying people have lost fish do to medications. So it's really hard for me to deceiver what is the lesser of 2 evils. I'm think I'm gonna try the meds first just because it seems they just don't work more then actually killing the fish. And what also strikes me as odd is I haven't put any new fish in a long time so it had to come in on the LR from the 75 that I added and the only time i've had ich in my 75 was about a year ago....guess it really does stick around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
nothing will actually kill the ich except copper (cupramine) or hypo, all other products eitehr don't work or are not meant to kill the ich but reather to help the fish fight off the ich by boosting immunity in one way shape or form.
 
hawkfish203

hawkfish203

Member
That makes sense. Would you say that doing hypo kills all the beneficial bacteria tho? And I have read that u cannot treat lions with copper. Was thinking too if I can get all my fish out of my DT for 30 days wouldn't the ich die from not having a host or run it's life cycle? Thanks for all the responses
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
i would leave the tank fish less longer than 30 days.i go 6 weeks.i love lfs always try to sell that snake oil kick ich.expensive and useless.
i have 4 fish in hypo now.my hippo had ich.he dropped the ich and now 3 fish have ich.wtf.the water is at 1.008.
i might have missed the timeline as to lower the salinity but i dont see how.so i am just going to wait some more.hypo doesnt kill off the good bacteria .if it did hypo instead of copper wouldnt be a good option.nowadays ich seems more resilient than it was 20 years ago.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Bacteria is fine under hypo, however, any other life in the sandbed, or baserock will suffer die-off. The die-off then results in an ammonia spike, and it is this that will crash the system.
How deep is the sandbed?
Eels can be hypoed, however, they rarely have problems with ich. You can substitute rocks with pvc, or fake coral.
What do you have to measure salinity and how much circulation do you have running in your system?
 
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