Trouble Raising Calc

[justinx]

I am having the worst time trying to raise my calcium levels. My Alk varies slightly between 3.5 and 4.25 depending on what i put in there the previous day. I use sea chems Reef Builder and Reef Advantage to raise things, and i also use aragamilk. I am not too sure how well this stuff will maintain things, but it did a good job at maintaining things before i started dosing. Anyway, I cannot seem to get my calc up above 350! It never goes below 340, but thats as high as goes. Alk is stable like i said and so is my pH. I dont have a sump so setting up a constant drip would be difficult to the point of almost impossible while still being aesthetically pleasing (girlfiend factor). Does anyone have any ideas? I am so frustrated that i may just give up and leave it at 350.

 

[bang guy]

Broomer had a couple of excellent threads you should search for to get some background information.
I believe the root of your problem is Aragamilk. It leaves a lot to be desired as a product.
I suggest a few large water changes followed up with a two part additive like B-Ionic.
Guy

 

[jonthefb]

i agree with guy.. do some water changes, and then, if your alk is stable, stop ading buffer altogether and just add calcium until your calcium is at the desired level. your pH and alkalinity should then follow!
good luck
jon

 

[justinx]

just curious, why the water changes?

 

[mlm]

To try to bring things back in balance.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by JustinX
just curious, why the water changes?
Often Calcium drops because of a precipitation event(s). This can happen when ALK gets very high or some type of uncoated Aragonite (Aragamilk, dry sand, etc.) is introduced into the water column. Almost always Magnesium is depleted along with the Calcium. A water change will restore both elements and lower any levels that are high. It's just a general fixer-upper.
* Warning - Techy mode *
The reason Mg is depleted with the Calcium is a good thing in a way. Mg will often bond with Carbonate then Calcium carbonate crystals are being formed. This kills the crystal and it can't grow anymore. With a low Mg level the crystal can grow unchecked until Ca falls below saturation levels, about 350 depending...
Since your Ca level is constantly falling below saturation levels, I surmised that you have a very low Mg level.
Restore Mg, and Ca via a water change and you're all set.

 

[justinx]

so once i do the wtare change, then whats the best way to maintian things once i get them where i want them. I know thie is a very difficult question to answer, but maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

 

[cliffrouse11bas]

I'm having the same problem. I did a water change tonight and my calcium is still showing 300. I think it is my test kit. Red Sea piece of... This hobby has dug me into my grave... I am glad I love it. Salifert test kit on the way!!!!

 

[reef fool]

I had the same problem when I started my tank up. My LFS suggested to use the B-Ionic 2 part system. My alk was high and my Ca was very low. I double dosed the Ca until it got close to normal and added the Alk when it finally stabilized. Worked for me. My Ca was 250 ppm at first and I have maintained 420 for a couple months now with regular doses of both parts daily. It did take a while for the Ca to get there but I noticed the gradual increase by testing with my Salifert test kit twice a week. And, of course, regular water changes are a must!

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by JustinX
so once i do the wtare change, then whats the best way to maintian things once i get them where i want them.
For your tank I would suggest following the path of Reef Fool and use B-Ionic. I mentioned it earlier
The Sea Lab #28, in theory, cannot work. It would be an interesting product to test.

 

[badpacket]

Bang,
Why won't they work? Just curious since I've bought several.
Heh, originally from Hamburg.

 

[justinx]

You know, i am not too sure as to why but this is what happened. I tested my calc today, after not changing ANYTHING that i have been doing as far as dosing goes, and my calc was a little over 400!! Well, there are two things that have changed. I did a 2 gal. water change, and i started using a new test kit (salifert). I have been using salifert kits all along, but the other one was almost used up (aka old) Do salifert kits lose accuracy over time? Anyway, this is my plan . . . according to the back of my calcium and carbonate buffers, there is a formula for figuring out how much to add to my top off water based on the consumption, so i am going to work from there. I will first figure out the sonsupmtion, and then set up a dosing amount based on that. Hopefully this works.

 

[angelspot]

Turbo calcium is great for getting your calcium up.

 

[reef dude]

Justin, I had the same exact problem you had. Alk was at 3.5 and Ca never went above 350. I was then told that i should drip kalk, but after 2 weeks of dripping kalk, still 350. I was then told that dripping kalkwasser will mainly just keep your levels at the same reading, in other words, in sort of puts a lock over your levels and maintains them at that certain level, which in your case is 350. So i stopped dripping kalk and bought a bottle of Kent Marine Liquid Calcium, cost me about 8 bucks. I added that for about 2 weeks and WOW! Calcium was up to 400 within a week or so, and another week later, it was at 450. THEN, i started to drip kalk again, which has been maintaining my Ca at 450 ever since. Also, I was using a Red Sea Calcium Pro mini lab test, which i absolutely hated!! I then switched over to the Ca test kit by Aquarium Systems, aka Instant Ocean, and its by far one of the best kits, it gives a very accurate reading. Starts out purple and then drip,drip,drip....Bam, turns blue instantly! only downside is it is an expensive kit, around 20 bucks, but well worth it!!!!
Hope that helps....
Dave

 

[jodeman]

I'm having the same trouble. Been adding turbo calcium, every day, for 2 weeks straight. Ph- 8.3, Alk- 175ppm, calcium- 250.
Have changed 50% of the water in the 2 weeks, calcium still dropping. I'm BEWILDERED!!!

 

[broomer5]

When talking about calcium chloride additives - it's good to understand the difference with a few of the products out there.
Take Kent products - which are very popular.
Kent's Liquid Calcium is calcium chloride and water. The calcium level in this stuff is around 30-35% CaCl2 calcium chloride.
The balance is DI water.
It's a mixture of calcium chloride and water.
Kent's Dry Powder Turbo Calcium is also calcium chloride - but it's in the form of Anhydrous Calcium Chloride. It's around 95-97% CaCl2 calcium chloride. The balance is moisture used in processing. It contains very little water ( it's anhydrous ).
This stuff is very similar to what we toss on the an icy sidewalk to melt snow ~ or spread it on dusty roads to keep the dust down.
It "sucks" moisture from the air and is a great desicant.
Leave a little of this stuff on a plastic spoon over night.
The next morning - the spoon will contain a liquid.
This stuff will pull water vapor out of the air - because it's anydrous. It wants water bad.
Knowing that the Turbo Calcium is much more concentrated - and therefore it's dosage can impact the tankwater chemistry much faster than a dose of the liquid calcium.
Not only will it RAISE the calcium faster - it can also be overdosed or added to quickly to the tankwater as well.
Adding too much too fast can actually work against you - and if calcium carbonate precepitation occurs - you may end up with LESS calcium in the water than before you dosed it.
If you add alkalinity products ( buffers/builders ) too fast ~ you may experience calcium carbonate precipitation.
If you add calcium ( calcium chloride ) too fast ~ you can experience calcium carbonate precipitation.
If you're pH get's very high - up above 8.5 or so ~ you can experinece calcium carbonate precipitataion.
The thing you want to PREVENT from happening - is this precipitation of calcium carbonate.
When this happens - your tankwater chemistry may go the opposite direction that you're expecting/wanting it to go.
If you precipitate calcium carbonates - you can lose alkalinity and calcium levels AND magnesium levels - very fast.
When we talk about doing water changes to bring things back into a balance ( balanced levels such as found in natural seawater ) we mean doing water changes and CEASING all other additives.
Doing water changes AND dosing any alk/calcium products - can work against you as well.
One or the other - not both at the same time.
If you mix up a batch of saltwater properly - you should be able to test it for pH, alk and calcium.
When doing so - hopefully you'll find that the levels are within acceptable range.
Doing water changes with this new water should be done over a series of days/weeks - and ALL chemical additives should be stopped during this time.
You wanting to get things back in balance - not whack them out while your trying to balance the tankwater.
I would not think that adding anydrous calcium chloride-Turbo Calcium ......... everyday would be a wise thing to do.
I imagine jodeman, that you're tankwater is experiencing precipitation of calcium carbonate - and that is why your calcium levels are not rising.
Doing water changes during this 2 week process may be keeping your alkalinity levels up around 175ppm ( 9.8dKH ), but the daily addition of the Turbo stuff may actually be working against you.
Try some water changes - WITHOUT - adding any other stuff to the tank. Especially the Turbo.

 

[jodeman]

Thanks for the help Broomer. I have beating my head against the wall trying to figure it out. I didn't have an alk test until friday , thought that's what it may be. I'll try what you suggested and hopefully solve the problem. Will keep you up to date. Thanks

 

[justinx]

You know, i think that i should have taken chemistry before starting this hobby. Oh well, i think that my problem before was that i was adding things too fast into my system. Well, i will try and figure out a way to drip things in. Anyone have any ideas for setting up a simple drip system on a tank with only a hang on skimmer?

 

[caymanlovers]

Reviving this thread.
How can one tell if calcium is precipitating out? Does it form a white "snow," just bond to the sand bed, or what?
I am also having trouble getting calc , alk and pH up. Have been dripping kalk but pH has been below 8.00 am and pm, calc down at about 270 and alk is low (but I am at work and don't have the figures for it.) I was adding Turbo Calc daily, no help. Adding Pro Buffer daily, no help.
So now I have stopped all additives and am changing 5 gallons of water daily (60 gallon tank with 10 gallon sump.) pH this morning was at 7.74. QUESTION - how far out of norm do I let the readings get while doing this daily water change?

 

[caymanlovers]

^