Unprecedented

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/391206/unprecedented/40#post_3469793
He did pay for it himself. How many years did he pay for the plan without access to it? Now he has access to it and is able to use it, and is still paying. on top of that, he is now paying about 96 dollars per month (I believe) to increase his coverage.
The average individual health insurance plan in the country runs 183 dollars per month, per individual.
Your 40K figure means That catastrophic event cant happen within 19 years of policy inception or insurance provider will lose money as well.
As to your hypocritical statements...nevermind...it isn't worth the effort.You would not see it even if I drew a picture.
You just want the system changed...you don't care how it is changed...just change it...oh, except tort reform and insurance competition across state lines....but it needed changed...anything...just not those issues.
You want the government to control health insurance...how has that added cost helped the EU? 1 country in default and several bailed out.....
There is no fix to this without changing how everyone does business. Period. There are ways to get your insurance cheaper. I work part time a couple nights a week and that covers my entire family's insurance as well as tucks a good portion away in a matching company 401 K.
You actually make more money than I do, based off your comments on this forum, and you whine about the premiums while I do not.
The reason....You outlook is a socialist mentality.
$183/month? Where did you come up with that BS number? My wife's group plan costs us almost $500/month. Talk about pulling stuff out of your rear.
I showed you the numbers. Average $50K/year for 30 years only comes up to around $40K total input into the system. Oooh, $96/month. Still wouldn't cover the costs of a major sugery. You're totally missing the point. That's the fallacy behinf Medicare. You have millions of people on it, and absolutely no way to fund it without the recipients paying more to supplement the costs. You're trying to defend current Medicare recipents, yet decry Obamacare that essentially is the same format with the exception that anyone signing up for that program will have to pay something to help circumvent the costs. Again, hypocrisy.
You keep talking about this magical health insurance plan that you have that gives you this great coverage, and now a 401K just by working part time. Please, please, tell me who this magical company is. We can use that as a model for your new healthcare reform plan. My daughter has interviewed with a multitude of companies here in San Antonio for a part-time job, and NONE of them have hinted or offered health insurance or 401K plans. I presume you're talking about Wally World?
You mean this great health plan?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/business/wal-mart-cuts-some-health-care-benefits.html?pagewanted=all
Oops, looks like you're one of the lucky part-timers. Seems Walmart is now taking the Republican approach, and any new employees working 24 hours a week or less will not be offered any health insurance, and those working 24 to 33 hours can't include their spouse.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3469888
$183/month? Where did you come up with that BS number? My wife's group plan costs us almost $500/month. Talk about pulling stuff out of your rear.
I showed you the numbers. Average $50K/year for 30 years only comes up to around $40K total input into the system. Oooh, $96/month. Still wouldn't cover the costs of a major sugery. You're totally missing the point. That's the fallacy behinf Medicare. You have millions of people on it, and absolutely no way to fund it without the recipients paying more to supplement the costs. You're trying to defend current Medicare recipents, yet decry Obamacare that essentially is the same format with the exception that anyone signing up for that program will have to pay something to help circumvent the costs. Again, hypocrisy.
You keep talking about this magical health insurance plan that you have that gives you this great coverage, and now a 401K just by working part time. Please, please, tell me who this magical company is. We can use that as a model for your new healthcare reform plan. My daughter has interviewed with a multitude of companies here in San Antonio for a part-time job, and NONE of them have hinted or offered health insurance or 401K plans. I presume you're talking about Wally World?
You mean this great health plan?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/business/wal-mart-cuts-some-health-care-benefits.html?pagewanted=all
Oops, looks like you're one of the lucky part-timers. Seems Walmart is now taking the Republican approach, and any new employees working 24 hours a week or less will not be offered any health insurance, and those working 24 to 33 hours can't include their spouse.
Oooooohhhhhhh Boogy boogy boogy, Walmart is cutting back on health benefits to PART TIME EMPLOYEES and increasing premiums for SMOKERS.
We pay 37.50 a month for the wife's insurance. Normally it would be 75 but because she does a company provided screening at the beginning of the year they knock the premium in half. E Vile big business at it's best LOL!
Your medicare argument is juvenile at best. The average yearly premium for a health insurance policy in the united states is about 5K a year right now. Do you think that will pay for a major event? One serious heart attack will eat more than 20 years of premiums. Insurance is a way of pooling risk. Since I was 20 There are maybe 10 months total when I didn't carry medical insurance. I made a lot of premium payments and never had anything but routine office visits a couple times to show for it. I would have been far better off pocketing the cash and paying out of pocket. But then again had I known what the winning powerball numbers were last night ahead of time I'd be a millionaire right now. I wasn't willing to take the risk. Fact is the majority of people will not have a major medical incident like a heart attack or cancer. That is how our medical care is paid for.
Without insurance do you seriously think medical care would be "affordable"? Do you know anyone who has jumped through the burning rings to become a doctor? Do you think they are going to invest all that money and time into their education and training for a 60K a year job so your medical care is "affordable"? How about the millions in equipment doctors and hospitals invest in? Who's going to pay for all that? To bring about the Democrat's preferred system the government will have to seize the assets of doctors and hospitals and implement salary caps on medical professionals from doctors all the way down to their receptionist. That ain't gonna work,
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

$183/month?  Where did you come up with that BS number?  My wife's group plan costs us almost $500/month.  Talk about pulling stuff out of your rear.
I showed you the numbers.  Average $50K/year for 30 years only comes up to around $40K total input into the system.  Oooh, $96/month.  Still wouldn't cover the costs of a major sugery.  You're totally missing the point.  That's the fallacy behinf Medicare.  You have millions of people on it, and absolutely no way to fund it without the recipients paying more to supplement the costs.  You're trying to defend current Medicare recipents, yet decry Obamacare that essentially is the same format with the exception that anyone signing up for that program will have to pay something to help circumvent the costs.  Again, hypocrisy.
You keep talking about this magical health insurance plan that you have that gives you this great coverage, and now a 401K just by working part time.  Please, please, tell me who this magical company is.  We can use that as a model for your new healthcare reform plan.  My daughter has interviewed with a multitude of companies here in San Antonio for a part-time job, and NONE of them have hinted or offered health insurance or 401K plans.  I presume you're talking about Wally World? 
You mean this great health plan?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/business/wal-mart-cuts-some-health-care-benefits.html?pagewanted=all
Oops, looks like you're one of the lucky part-timers.  Seems Walmart is now taking the Republican approach, and any new employees working 24 hours a week or less will not be offered any health insurance, and those working 24 to 33 hours can't include their spouse.
We have discussed my part time gig in the past. notmy fault your memory cant recall things v ery well....but i am not surprised after some of your recent comments concerning our county's recent past.
I clearly stated INDIVIDUAL pays 183 a month. your family plan costs 500.....how many individuals in your family?
darth (i can do math) Tang
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3469893
Oooooohhhhhhh Boogy boogy boogy, Walmart is cutting back on health benefits to PART TIME EMPLOYEES and increasing premiums for SMOKERS.
We pay 37.50 a month for the wife's insurance. Normally it would be 75 but because she does a company provided screening at the beginning of the year they knock the premium in half. E Vile big business at it's best LOL!
Your medicare argument is juvenile at best. The average yearly premium for a health insurance policy in the united states is about 5K a year right now. Do you think that will pay for a major event? One serious heart attack will eat more than 20 years of premiums. Insurance is a way of pooling risk. Since I was 20 There are maybe 10 months total when I didn't carry medical insurance. I made a lot of premium payments and never had anything but routine office visits a couple times to show for it. I would have been far better off pocketing the cash and paying out of pocket. But then again had I known what the winning powerball numbers were last night ahead of time I'd be a millionaire right now. I wasn't willing to take the risk. Fact is the majority of people will not have a major medical incident like a heart attack or cancer. That is how our medical care is paid for.
Without insurance do you seriously think medical care would be "affordable"? Do you know anyone who has jumped through the burning rings to become a doctor? Do you think they are going to invest all that money and time into their education and training for a 60K a year job so your medical care is "affordable"? How about the millions in equipment doctors and hospitals invest in? Who's going to pay for all that? To bring about the Democrat's preferred system the government will have to seize the assets of doctors and hospitals and implement salary caps on medical professionals from doctors all the way down to their receptionist. That ain't gonna work,
I PAY for my medical insurance. Most Medicare recipients pay little or nothing in relation to what private carriers have to pay. So the deficit continues to rise to keep paying for that program.
Your scare tactic theories don't fly. What's the difference between this program and Medicare, with the exception that it adds 54 million or so more individuals to the medical rolls. Don't like Obamacare? Open up Medicare to anyone who needs medical insurance that currently has none. Doctors and the medical industry have been claiming this for decades, but they seem to continue to chug right along. $60K/year? I know my GP makes quite a bit more than that. I know several of the physicians that work at my wife's hospital, and I've been to their homes. Believe me, they aren't suffering in the least.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470040
I PAY for my medical insurance. Most Medicare recipients pay little or nothing in relation to what private carriers have to pay. So the deficit continues to rise to keep paying for that program.
Your scare tactic theories don't fly. What's the difference between this program and Medicare, with the exception that it adds 54 million or so more individuals to the medical rolls. Don't like Obamacare? Open up Medicare to anyone who needs medical insurance that currently has none. Doctors and the medical industry have been claiming this for decades, but they seem to continue to chug right along. $60K/year? I know my GP makes quite a bit more than that. I know several of the physicians that work at my wife's hospital, and I've been to their homes. Believe me, they aren't suffering in the least.
And I PAID and PAY for my Medicare insurance. I paid from every paycheck for Hospitalization (Part A) and pay every month for Doctors visits etc. (Part B)
Medicare DOESN'T work. It is going broke. Who in their right mind would open it up to more people in it's current form?
First step SHOULD be to remove needless costs, Those associated with lawsuits which also include CYA medicine and record keeping. Then deal with getting everyone coverage. Like I said before and you can't quite comprehend. No matter how medical care is provided SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY FOR IT. Whether that is through insurance premiums or taxes IT STILL HAS TO BE PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!! The fatal flaw of 0bama care is it requires more people to be covered for even more procedures. That increases the costs, PERIOD. And boys and girls, what's the biggest impediment to those without insurance being able to get it????????????????
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391206/unprecedented/20#post_3469360
You had to do some serious mental gymnastics to get there LOL! There's a big difference between an actual emergency whether real or perceived and a fool using the ER because they can be seen quicker when it isn't a serious illness.
Seeing my doctor is 100% faster than the service at the ER. I make an appointment, show up on time...sign in and wait maybe 5 minutes before seeing the doctor.
My back was totally out, I had fallen on my back porch and went by ambulance to the ER...2 hours later...I see a doctor, all I needed was was a muscle relaxer... X-rays and 6 injections of Morphine, and I could go home and throw up. Maybe our hospitals are more crowded or something, but faster than a doctor??? Really???
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470113
Seeing my doctor is 100% faster than the service at the ER. I make an appointment, show up on time...sign in and wait maybe 5 minutes before seeing the doctor.
My back was totally out, I had fallen on my back porch and went by ambulance to the ER...2 hours later...I see a doctor, all I needed was was a muscle relaxer... X-rays and 6 injections of Morphine, and I could go home and throw up. Maybe our hospitals are more crowded or something, but faster than a doctor??? Really???
Must be way more crowded. A friend has had a couple trips to the ER in the last couple months. Once for what turned out to be a serious vertigo attack and once for a cut on his foot from a broken shower door. Both times they had in back within a few minutes.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470129
Must be way more crowded. A friend has had a couple trips to the ER in the last couple months. Once for what turned out to be a serious vertigo attack and once for a cut on his foot from a broken shower door. Both times they had in back within a few minutes.
In the middle of the night....that might happen. Not as the general rule.... and our hospital is 45 minutes away. We have acute centers where folks can go to get stable before heading for the hospital. They are only open when the doctors offices are closed.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470139
In the middle of the night....that might happen. Not as the general rule.... and our hospital is 45 minutes away. We have acute centers where folks can go to get stable before heading for the hospital. They are only open when the doctors offices are closed.
Vertigo issue was fairly early in the morning, 7ish. Cut foot was right at 5 in the afternoon. We just missed getting him into the urgent care but they closed at 5PM so ER here we come. I made him put his cut foot in a trash bag, still bled on my floor board a little LOL!
 

reefraff

Active Member
Hell, I got my own story. A few months ago I got the tank herpes in my thumb. Gawd it was gloriously disgusting.... I couldn't get into my regular doc until Tuesday and his office suggested I go to the ER. I went to urgent care instead. That was Friday.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470150
Hell, I got my own story. A few months ago I got the tank herpes in my thumb. Gawd it was gloriously disgusting.... I couldn't get into my regular doc until Tuesday and his office suggested I go to the ER. I went to urgent care instead. That was Friday.
You got tank herpes, reef? What the heck is that?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3470158
You got tank herpes, reef? What the heck is that?
I believe it was venom from some pallys but I am not positive. I've never had an issue even brushing bare hands against bubble tipped anemones. All I know is my thumb had been aching for a few days like I had smashed it but I didn't remember doing so and there were no visible signs of anything being wrong. Then is swelled up the size of my big toe and got full of some pink and yellow puss. It was enough to blow off the thumb nail.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Sounds like you might have been infected with mycobacterium marinum.
I happen to be a board certified Emergency Physician, and yes the ERs are overcrowded. There are fewer doctors In some places, and with EMTALA we are mandated by law to see all patients who come into our door without asking for any kind of pay. We can only try to collect even a copy after an exam is performed and any emergency medical or surgical treatment is rendered. Though the gov't mandates this there is no funding. I have had jobs where 60% of my patients never paid me a dime. I do not mind using my skills to help other for "free" , but on the other hand there is a business to run and bills to pay.
I know in some place primary care physicians make $80,000-100,000. Not bad pay in the big picture, but if you look at the time and education that is not as good a return as it seems. 4 years college, 4 years med school, and 3-7 years of residency really add up. I made $15/ hr as a resident in the late 90's. That was based on a 40 hour work week which never happened. It was more like 60-80 hours per week. Some weeks I made less than $5/hour.
I doubt things will get better for us under Obama care more patients less money and fewer doctors. I really see 50%+ of the care will be given by a mid leek provider like a physicians assistant or nurse practicianer. Most well visits and many minor procedures. I have seen as many as 70 patients in 12 hours. Many of those acutely ill. Those are not good days. That level of care burns out docs at a high rate. Needless to say things get missed and people die or are hurt as things are missed or rushed. Malpractice goes up not due to incompetence, but rather patient load. More docs leave and the cycle gets worse.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3471042
Sounds like you might have been infected with mycobacterium marinum.
I happen to be a board certified Emergency Physician, and yes the ERs are overcrowded. There are fewer doctors In some places, and with EMTALA we are mandated by law to see all patients who come into our door without asking for any kind of pay. We can only try to collect even a copy after an exam is performed and any emergency medical or surgical treatment is rendered. Though the gov't mandates this there is no funding. I have had jobs where 60% of my patients never paid me a dime. I do not mind using my skills to help other for "free" , but on the other hand there is a business to run and bills to pay.
I know in some place primary care physicians make $80,000-100,000. Not bad pay in the big picture, but if you look at the time and education that is not as good a return as it seems. 4 years college, 4 years med school, and 3-7 years of residency really add up. I made $15/ hr as a resident in the late 90's. That was based on a 40 hour work week which never happened. It was more like 60-80 hours per week. Some weeks I made less than $5/hour.
I doubt things will get better for us under Obama care more patients less money and fewer doctors. I really see 50%+ of the care will be given by a mid leek provider like a physicians assistant or nurse practicianer. Most well visits and many minor procedures. I have seen as many as 70 patients in 12 hours. Many of those acutely ill. Those are not good days. That level of care burns out docs at a high rate. Needless to say things get missed and people die or are hurt as things are missed or rushed. Malpractice goes up not due to incompetence, but rather patient load. More docs leave and the cycle gets worse.
Someo of the stuff you have to see a doc for is absurd anyway. Because I am on blood thinner because of a greenfield filter being installed after "the wreck" (thats a whole other story LOL!) I have to have a blood test done every month. It''s no harder than what a diabetic does every day yet I have to go in to the office. The nurse does the check, the doc looks at the reading, snivels that I only come in for that particular test which is covered by workers comp then leaves. What a joke....
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3471042
Sounds like you might have been infected with mycobacterium marinum.
I happen to be a board certified Emergency Physician, and yes the ERs are overcrowded. There are fewer doctors In some places, and with EMTALA we are mandated by law to see all patients who come into our door without asking for any kind of pay. We can only try to collect even a copy after an exam is performed and any emergency medical or surgical treatment is rendered. Though the gov't mandates this there is no funding. I have had jobs where 60% of my patients never paid me a dime. I do not mind using my skills to help other for "free" , but on the other hand there is a business to run and bills to pay.
I know in some place primary care physicians make $80,000-100,000. Not bad pay in the big picture, but if you look at the time and education that is not as good a return as it seems. 4 years college, 4 years med school, and 3-7 years of residency really add up. I made $15/ hr as a resident in the late 90's. That was based on a 40 hour work week which never happened. It was more like 60-80 hours per week. Some weeks I made less than $5/hour.
I doubt things will get better for us under Obama care more patients less money and fewer doctors. I really see 50%+ of the care will be given by a mid leek provider like a physicians assistant or nurse practicianer. Most well visits and many minor procedures. I have seen as many as 70 patients in 12 hours. Many of those acutely ill. Those are not good days. That level of care burns out docs at a high rate. Needless to say things get missed and people die or are hurt as things are missed or rushed. Malpractice goes up not due to incompetence, but rather patient load. More docs leave and the cycle gets worse.
I like to hear from real physicians on things like this. Every doctor I see on NBC or Fox News are paid shills of either the dems or reps. So when I read what a doctor in the trenches has to say, I take notice. Here in Southern Arizona add to what you described, every person (hundreds of thousands)in Northern Mexico coming over the border and using the ER for their primary care and then never paying their bill and you can see why 50% of our hospitals are already bankrupt and many doctors have walked away. The hospital nearest me is Copper Queen Community Hospital-3 miles from the border. I read in an interview in the paper, their director said that they never collect on 70% of ER services because so many are pouring over the border to use their ER. He said that some federal program used to reimburse about 50% of the unpaid bills, but that was cut a few years ago and it is only grants from Phelps Dodge (the local mine owner) that keeps it open. Phelps Dodge has been bought out by a Mexican mining company and announced they are not going to continue to subsidize the hospital. So now the nearest ER will soon be 32 miles away.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3471046
Someo of the stuff you have to see a doc for is absurd anyway. Because I am on blood thinner because of a greenfield filter being installed after "the wreck" (thats a whole other story LOL!) I have to have a blood test done every month. It''s no harder than what a diabetic does every day yet I have to go in to the office. The nurse does the check, the doc looks at the reading, snivels that I only come in for that particular test which is covered by workers comp then leaves. What a joke....
So the fact you are still alive after what sounds like major trauma seems to elude you? You are on a potenitally life threatening drug and you are upset about having to see the doctor who is responsible for the drug ( and your life)? It's a joke to be on an anticoagulant?
You have survived major trauma and do not go in for check ups. I'd be upset if I were your physician.
 

bang guy

Moderator
I have to agree with Oscardeuce in this case. My dad survived multiple tours in Korea and Vietnam but died from eating too many leafy greens while on bloodthinners. It's some serious ****.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3471727
So the fact you are still alive after what sounds like major trauma seems to elude you? You are on a potenitally life threatening drug and you are upset about having to see the doctor who is responsible for the drug ( and your life)? It's a joke to be on an anticoagulant?
You have survived major trauma and do not go in for check ups. I'd be upset if I were your physician.
I am in once a month (usually) for the test. Looking for a reading between 2 and 3. It isn't rocket science. It's no sweat to me, the costs are on workers comp. But these tests could easily be done just like the diabetes readings. If we are going to make health care affordable this is the kind of stuff people need to do for themselves to some extent.
The trauma was a car wreck. Worst injury was blowing out my hip socket bad enough that when they lifted me out of the truck the leg bone tore up the nerves in my lower back. That was a fun time.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/391206/unprecedented/60#post_3471770
I have to agree with Oscardeuce in this case. My dad survived multiple tours in Korea and Vietnam but died from eating too many leafy greens while on bloodthinners. It's some serious ****.
I love broccoli, about the only veggie I like and one of the worst for someone on thinners.
 
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