Urgent Question....How do you Quarantine "hard-to-keep" spiecments?

[majesticangelfish]

As my research and planning for my aquarium.....
I question myself along with my 15-20 years ago experience. Now I want to ask the experts for your input and experience HOW TO QUARANTINE "HARD-TO-KEEP" SPIECMENTS?? Example let's say;
Ornate Butterfly
Four Eye Butterfly
Regal Angelfish
Potter Angelfish
Mandarian
others.........
When you get those hard to keep spiecments and how do you "dice" the risk whether to quarantine them before introudce to main tank?
Or
Do you "go ahead" and put 'em in main tank where there is a rich food source to encourage them to eat? ( I mean tank with LR, DSB, highest water quality and etc... that they require in order to success)
suppose if I am to quarantine those spiecments and what if their eating remain unsuccessful and become so lovesick of home (ocean) then dying chance is greater. How can this be avoided?
I must ask that question because I am willing to order some fishes thur web-site which save me more than half of the lfs' cost and accept to lose money if anything went unsuccessful with those spiecments. Would you pay $100 for Regal from lfs and end up being a sucker within two weeks? or buy a $40 or less and gamble with success. That's $60 savings! I am desire to success this time and must have everything planned.
Thank you for your input and I hope my thread isnt a beddy-time story for y'all. LOL

 

[tangcrazy]

I too had the same exact concern you did, when I purchased a pebbled butterfly; although not extremely expensive, still a delicate fish. If it so highly recommeded to have LR, and a well established tank with a protein skimmer, how can I honestly expect this fish to thrive in a stripped down QT tank? Just FYI, this is what I did. I purchased some methlyene blue and dipped the butterfly for 45 seconds in buffered FW with the m. blue, before adding him into my main tank. I have had the butterfly going on two weeks now, and although he did have a bout with ick, and now has a little fungus on one of his fins, I am continuing to dip him in the medicated FW, every other day. The fish has had a total of three dips so far, and seems unscathed. I chose this route as I felt the fish would stand a better chance this way, than in a QT tank. I suppose this is risky, especially if you are worried that other fish in your main tank may ultimately catch something from the new specimen, I guess it's a personal risk, and requires a lot of thinking and consideration. I hope you get some other opinions on the subject. Good Luck, and keep us posted on what you decide.

 

[majesticangelfish]

Tangcrazy,
That's exact same concern as mine. I do have another question concerning the Protein Skimmer requirment even if I have an EcoSystem filter (which PS is not needed) ?
Pebble Butterflyfish is pretty too and I used to have it but lasted a month. That was 15+years ago.... I would re-try this again. Strange thing it apparently is difficult to find that Pebble Butterfly thur web-site orders. Wonder how lfs are able to find it. Anyway thank for your input and knowledge sharings.

 

[tangcrazy]

I am not familiar with the ecosystem you mentioned, so I can't honestly answer that, however the pebbled butterfly is available online from SWF. However I am on the west coast, and chose to pay a little more from another online site, so the fish would not have to travel so far.
Apparently there are two fish both commonly called the pebbled butterfly, I believe I have the C. multicinctus; even though I had ordered the C. guttatissimus. They are both beautiful fish. Anyway, I do hope you get some more opinions on this QT subject as I am curious too. Keep me posted!

 

[majesticangelfish]

COME ON EXPERTS.
MR SALTY?
BOOMER5?
MR TANG?
STINGRAY SAMMY?
ANYONE?
Should I come over your house and inject some steriods in your fingers? lol!
COME ON SHARE YOUR INPUTS......
Why those secret of yours? Come 'on folks.
<img src="graemlins//yeahright.gif" border="0" alt="[yeahright]" />

 

[amphiprion]

I always recommend quarantining a fish - no matter what type or how sensitive. Quarantining does two things: it gives you a chance to inspect the fish and look for signs of infestation/disease. It also give the fish a chance to settle down to aquarium life without the hassle other fish in your tank might give it. While it is in quarantine it has a chance to calm down after the experience of being caught, flown thousands of miles (without being fed). It's a good time to wean it to aquarium foods. I don't see any problem with quaranting any fish.
As a side note, the quarantine tank should be established and cycled, not just put together on the spur of the moment. You don't want new fish to have to cope with ammonia/nitrite spikes.
HTH

 

[majesticangelfish]

Hey Thinktank,
As you stated in other thread that your a Master degree with Marine biology. Care to help educate us? <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />
Later

 

[fshhub]

sorry, but i have to say asking think tank would be like asking for trouble, his posts, when they wee not off hte wall, offered VERY POOR advice, so i would avoid his advice altogether, in spite of his knowledge, he may claim to have a masters in marine biologey, but i have a drivers liscence, and that does not mean i know about cars
as for quarentining fish, i would quarentine everything, my biggest fear is that i will introduce something that i do not want in my tank and then not be able to deal with it properly, the q tank helps you to avoid this, and it also helps to calm the fish as mentioned above

 

[thinktank]

i would like to say something mean to fshhub but he is right , the part about quarenting everthing it is a very important step that cannot be left out. i also like the way you were talking about planning everything out angel that is also very important. these fish are not only a fun hobbie they are also a very expensive investment. and should be treated that way good luck with your tank

 

[daluminum]

I would love to q~tank everything.. but like they mentioned. what about the fish' needs.. ie.. the mandarin.. which is worse.. the possibility of introducing ick.. or starving the fish of pods??
in a perfect world we would use a fully stocked tank as a q-tank.. but in a perfect world I would be worried about getting 2 extra horsepower from my brand new M5... SO.. obviously.. its not a perfect world..
my solution.. Find a GOOD LFS.. no, its not an oxymoron.. some stuff is good to buy online.. especially if you are buying packages.. no LFS will sell any kits remotely resembling the livestock on SWF.. but for trick fish.. find a good lfs... I have given my LFS owner a very nice retirement fund.. one thing that I do is... prepay for a fish before he even has the fish in stock.. once the owner remembers you.. and they WILL order the fish.. they put it in one of the special tanks... normally the tanks on the side of the store.. but they will put the fish in their show tank and let it aclimate to life on the inside... then you can pick it up "when your tank is ready" works great every time.. most LFS' are very eager to help.. or maybe my opinion is biased.. either way.. it works for me.

 

[fshhub]

before you get a mandarin, you could put a sponge in your main tank, behind the rock, and let it there for a week(or longer), then put it into the q tank, it will cary pods for the mandarin, then put another in, and rotate as neccessary, this should keep him fed

 

[tangcrazy]

Amphprion, is your solution to have two tanks then? A fully established, and stocked QT; and then a sick tank to actually carry out the treatment as necessary. As I'm sure you know, you cannot use meds in an established, stocked tank; thus the whole reason of having another tank. So, in actuality you would put a delicate specimen in your QT, and when it showed signs of illness, move it to a sick tank to be treated with meds. This sounds pretty stressful to me, especially for a delicate specimen! Is this the answer, where is Terry B when you need him? BTW, Amphrion, what size is your QT?

 

[davidcanupp]

This is similar to the problem that I am debating right now. I have a Sailfin Tang in a 55, and he has developed a pretty bad case of ick. I've done two formalin dips and fed garlic, but I realized that I have to QT him. The problem is, he is already in only a 55 (which many may point out is on the small side for this fish) and I hate that all I have to offer him in a QT is a bare, relatively tiny 20 gallon with no substrate and only a few rocks. If I am going to use hyposalinity to treat him, he might be in there a while. How can I expect him to get better in such an uncomfortable environment? However, I don't think that we have a better option. I mean, I can't put him in my bathtub for a while, and I guess that he will be happy enough just to be ick-free. Maybe that's how you have to think about it in terms of QT: the fish will be unhappy for a while, but at least it won't be dead. Until we can come up with a better way to prevent or cure disease, we have to QT fish. It's simply the only way I know of (though I am totally open to other suggestions and I hope to read a few).
David

 

[amphiprion]

I have a 29g quarantine tank. It's no worse (in size) than the 20g tank that most fish are kept in at the fish store. It cost me 30.00 at petworld. It does not have substrate but I have painted the bottom black. I have a heater, a Marineland Penguin powerfilter with biowheel, and some glazed ceramic plant pots - broken in half to provide shelter. When I don't have fish in the q-tank, I keep the biowheel portion of the Penguin in my sump - this keeps the good bacteria alive until the next time I need to set up the Q-tank. If I have to medicate the Q-tank, I remove the biowheel so I don't kill the good bacteria.
The entire q-tank cost me around $50 - $60. A good investment when you consider the price of some saltwater fish.
I also religiously treat all fish in the quarantine tank with hyposalinity. I currently have around 40 fish in my tanks that have been treated over the years. I have never had ich (knock on wood) in any of my main tanks. I've treated a few sensitive species this way - Anthias, Saddleback butterfly, 3 types of pygmy angels. All have come through quarantine and are still in my aquariums today.
My q-tank has sat idle for the past year as I haven't purchased any new fish until this past Sunday. I ordered a Pink Tail trigger for my 125. He'll be in the q-tank for the next 4 weeks.

 

[majesticangelfish]

My question......
1) After get a new fish from lfs or website order.
2) Put new fish in Q tank with normal salinty.
3) DO NOT perform hydrosalnity unless there is sign of ick then do hydrosalnity.
or
3) After few days no matter whether it is healthy or ick infected still do hydrosalinty produrce?
I do not think we should perform any Hydrosalnity every time we get new fish and put in Q tank even if its healthy for 2-4weeks UNLESS there is evidence of ick then sheesh perform that hydrosalinty?

 

[tangcrazy]

Sounds better than having two tanks, like I though you meant! I do believe in using QT, I always have, however, the QT still does not have live rock, which is all my butterfly will eat right now. So I took my chances leaving him in my main tank. I watch my fish very closely, so if I see anything on this butterfly, out he comes; but for now its under control. I do think though, that if I had it to do over again, I would probably quarantine, even the delicate fish for the simple fact that I wouldn't have to worry about my other fish as I have over the past couple of weeks. You just never know, even if you buy your fish from a very reputable place (as I did) there is no guarantee that your fish is completely parasite or bacteria free! Has anyone read "The Concientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner? It is an excellent book, and has a whole chapter on quarantining and introducing new fish. I live by this book! Hey Majestic Angel, did any of this help you? I think it makes a lot of sense, if you do get your delicate fish, and QT it, please let me know how it goes.

 

[majesticangelfish]

Hey Fishhub,
What an excellent thinking! A sponge! How unthought of me. lol.. What kind sponge is safe for aquarium? Such as sponge that used as air bubble or such as sponge used as car wash (never use and new) do?
Another question..... Any helpful tip for such as Regal Angelfish or some type of Butterfly fish that are hard to get 'em to eat. I have read some post how frastuate some aquarists are trying to get 'em to eat.(Even a expensive live brime shrimp menu) How long can they live without eat a thing?
Later

 

[majesticangelfish]

HEY TANGCRAZY,
This do help clarify more about Q the delicate fishes. but still few other items questions.... I do have some books but they are 20 years old due to change of technologies, more educate (than the past) and more LR and LS being furnished in aquarium than the past. Know what I am talkin' about? That's the exact reason I am also looking for a good book explaining how to do the proper way with LR/LS and etc......
The book you mentioned, I will check this out.
Thanks

 

[amphiprion]

I do not think we should perform any Hydrosalnity every time we get new fish and put in Q tank even if its healthy for 2-4weeks UNLESS there is evidence of ick then sheesh perform that hydrosalinty?
<hr></blockquote>
Sheesh, so don't do hyposalinity. I personally don't give a hoot what you do with your own tank. It's your money and your fish. I'm relating what I do. It has worked for me. My fish are healthy and my reef/FOWLR tanks are thriving, thank you very much. Hyposalinity has no adverse effect on fish. You can confirm this with Terry B right here on this forum, who totally advocates the use of it. A fish can have the ich parasites inbedded in it flesh and you can't see it. I won't take the chance. Others are willing to take that chance. To me it's better than dipping a fish in embalming fluid (Formalin)once you realize it has ich. You tell me which is better.

 

[jimi]

You should quarantine any new fish, if the fish is that risky you probably should not be keeping it anyway. Would you rather take the chance on losing one fish or losing all your fish. I would personally use hypo on all new comers even if they dont show signs of ick.