URGENT - Yellow Tang Issue

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparty059 http:///forum/thread/386004/urgent-yellow-tang-issue#post_3388265
It is a 60 gallon tank so I assumed as a baby it would be fine in this size for some time. I am in the process of taking down my 150 gallon and won't be putting it back up for a good 2 maybe even 3 months. The water at the surface is moving as if its boiling. I did not paint the bottom of the tank but instead taped paper covering the whole thing. Also, I don't have any light fixtures on the tank so the only light the fish get is natural light as well as whatever light I have on in the room. I have it in hypo because I figured I will just start doing hypo on every fish regardless if they're sick or not. After hypo is finished I can be guaranteed they aren't going to be sick.
"guarentee" is not in the aqurium vocabulary.

 

[kiefers]

For the most part "hypo" is effective but can be very stressful for the fish as well as the owner. Fish swallow saltwater and their kidneys flush out the salt. When hypo is started the fish are taking in less salts therefore the kidneys are working less and there for go into what we call end stage renal disease. Hence the slow down or sluggish behavior. Hypo is not safer in my opinion and would treat with copper or a safer copper safe medication. If you indeed read the link posted by Tangs rule, you would see that the ich will come back and is now believed the morph from fresh to salt water. (i now believe too).
good luck to you and your critters.

 

[sparty059]

So should I call it quits on hypo and just balance the sg level back out to 1.025 over the course of a week? If I shouldn't hypo from the get go and it doesn't look sick right now should I just fix the levels and leave hypo for another day when it is necessary?

 

[jstdv8]

ohh 60g should be fine for him for now. looks alot smaller than that in the video.
When you mixed up your saltwater for the water change did you areate it for 24 hours with a powerhead or airstone? That might have something to do with the low PH if you didn't

 

[jstdv8]

how long do you have to go in your 4 week treatment?

 

[sparty059]

It's a 60 gallon hex which might be why it looks smaller. Plus its a tall hex. I'm just over 3 weeks on the treatment. But i thought its supposed to be 7 or 8 weeks not 4...?

 

[sparty059]

Also I forgot to mention, I have a designated bucket for salt water making and I usually have no less than 15 gallons mixing, which is mixed by a marineland pro powerhead. It mixes anywhere from 24 hours to max of 1 week mixing non stop.

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparty059 http:///forum/thread/386004/urgent-yellow-tang-issue/20#post_3388318
So should I call it quits on hypo and just balance the sg level back out to 1.025 over the course of a week? If I shouldn't hypo from the get go and it doesn't look sick right now should I just fix the levels and leave hypo for another day when it is necessary?
NO - I'd leave the guy in hypo and if there is ant sign of ich - add some copper treatment if signs of ich appear... . Since it sounds like things are out of balance in the tank (ph) it's gonna be necessary to slowly bring the PH up over ~2days, I'd leave the sg @ ~1.009 and attempt to stabilize the qtine system now...if there are signs of ich, only then i'd begin copper treatment, but be aware that copper meds (either type) seem to lower dissolved O2 levels in the water, so either add an airstone&pump (ideal) or make sure there's plenty of surface movement...
I'd say stabilize the qtine system now and first, and hold it there for a week or 2. Monitor the fishes during this time, and look for problems, see if their behavior gets back to mormal....at the end of a solid week or 2, if no signs of ich or odd behavior reamin, then I'd slowly start comming back up with SG.

 

[sparty059]

Great! I'll take a look at everything in the am. As for signs of ich it doesn't seem to be visible. But I do understand that it may not be visible at all times. But again, the only thing odd about the fish are their movement or lack there of. I'll work on balancing the pH to 7.8-8.2 and also look at adding a bigger powerhead in there to have some additional water movement and to increase the o2 output. Standard pH buffers work well right? Just dump them in the tank or does it go into my fluval container under the tank?

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/386004/urgent-yellow-tang-issue/20#post_3388432
NO - I'd leave the guy in hypo and if there is ant sign of ich - add some copper treatment if signs of ich appear... . Since it sounds like things are out of balance in the tank (ph) it's gonna be necessary to slowly bring the PH up over ~2days, I'd leave the sg @ ~1.009 and attempt to stabilize the qtine system now...if there are signs of ich, only then i'd begin copper treatment, but be aware that copper meds (either type) seem to lower dissolved O2 levels in the water, so either add an airstone&pump (ideal) or make sure there's plenty of surface movement...
I'd say stabilize the qtine system now and first, and hold it there for a week or 2. Monitor the fishes during this time, and look for problems, see if their behavior gets back to mormal....at the end of a solid week or 2, if no signs of ich or odd behavior reamin, then I'd slowly start comming back up with SG.
+1 I agree. If your not aware of copper and it's all around purpose please read up on it. Keep in mind tho there are two types of copper, ionic and the safer (can't think right now) ionic is toxic to the fish and you NEED to check it with a test kit no less than twice a day to make sure that the levels are not to high. Take out any rock you have because the medication will be absorbed in the rock or shell or substrate, which you don't have.
tangs rule gave real good advice...... I would follow it to the T. Good luck

 

[tangs rule]

Most solid (granular) PH buffers dissolve in a couple cups or 2 of water - mix well to totally dissolve and SLOWLY add some to the tank. Most buffers kinda suggest how much to add per "x" gallons and i'd NOT over add. Some buffers can overshoot, and kill fishes....so add some buffer, let tank run for 1/2 day and retest tank PH....if it's close to 8.0 or over, leave it alone and retest the following day....if after adding buffer and waiting 1/2 day tand tests still below 8.0 - then add a little more.
As far as copper meds go, Seachem "cupramine" is ionic, and mardel "coppersafe" is buffered or chleated. They both work well, but they treat at totally different ratios, and cannot be mixed. There's also different test kits for each - seachem makes one for ionic, and API (aquaruim pharmacuticlas inc) makes one for chleated.....I've always used coppersafe, but most use cupramine.. The buffered copper is actually supposedly easier on a fishes system, than ionic, but overdosing either will certainly kill any fish, and underdosing won't kill off the parasites, so it's good to test copper levels with a test kit, cause there's a "window" of concentration that must be mantained.

 

[kiefers]

I use baking soda for ph..... you'll have to bake it on a cookie sheet for a few but over all it's a great alternative, use sparingly and mix well. If I need it we make some up an keep it in a container. The powder settles and you use the water on top. You can also drip it to be safe.

 

[jstdv8]

I've never done hypo, but with copper I've always done 4 weeks and I'm fairly certain i'm ich free in my DT.
The longer the better of course, but alot of medications will harm the fishes liver when used for extended periods.
I've read 12 days, ive read 3 weeks (This site's stickys) and Ive read much longer. Ive also done alot of reading on the life cycle of ich and if everything goes correctly I believe 4 weeks is sufficient.
Hypo is a bit harder to maintain because you need to stay below .009 for the entire time. If the number is ever above that even for a short period you basically have to call it a start over and start the clock again.

 

[jstdv8]

hows he doing today sparty?

 

[sparty059]

Sorry for the delayed update. So I want to start by saying I know copper is another method for curing a disease. However, I plan to use this tank as a display tank one down down the road since it is so large. And using copper would pretty much kill those chances as it is very bad for the tank and never can be cleaned our or something like that . Anyway, if you have ever heard of the phrase winner winner chicken dinner them you'd understand how I feel right now. I bought some pH buffers and added 13 teaspoons to the 60 gallon. (PH was 7.2-7.4, 1 teaspoon adds .1 for every 40 gallons, I added 13 to bump it up to 8.1) since the addition all of my fish have been acting far more normal than before. Also to mention, the tang prior to the buffer was swimming around on his side. Still looked good in color, but was not looking strong. So I've been monitoring everything through the day and am very please with the return right now. Looking forward to the new couple of weeks as I will be restarting the dt. Thanks again for everyone's help!!!!

 

[jstdv8]

sweet!

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///forum/thread/386004/urgent-yellow-tang-issue/20#post_3388655
sweet!
+1

 

[sparty059]

Crisis averted too soon. I came home today to find the yellow tang swimming in a horitzontal pattern. Nose towards the ground behind up. It's letting the current take it where ever it pleases whether its into PVC pipes, the wall, or the ground. I've looked some stuff up and it seems it might be something the the SG level being so low as someone mentioned before which has possibly caused some anal disease. The fish continues to have great color, but it doesn't seem like it's going to last. I'm tempted to just call hypo quits and fix the SG level over the next few HOURS rather than days with hopes it will resolve the attitude. What are the thoughts from everyone here?

 

[kiefers]

sorry tp hear your bad news. Tangs typically do pretty good in hypo but like stated above, just stressful. did you end up putting in an airstone for O2 or is it you who stated that the surface had good circulation. All parameters good? You didn't add pH buffers to quickly.
IMO even if you begin to raise the salinity it may make him worse off, typically I believe you have to raise it over 72 hours. I think.
Did you start with the copper and if so did you check it?

 

[sparty059]

Yes, I stated previously that the aggitation is good on top. Parameters are good as well. I don't believe I added pH too quickly... as I said before I added 13 teaspoons in a matter of an hour or so, but everyone seemed to be happy when I added it... the clowns still seem fine. They seem more concerned for the tang as they keep swimming up to it checking on it...