Vho question

[alison]

Sorry for jerkin any bobbers, whatever that means.

I know I was wanting mh's then vho's so I know I've been kinda bouncin around a bit, so sorry if I did, but I know everyone does that when they are trying to decide a rather pricey thing. Oh, and I really will do the mh's later, so it's no biggie. This will work great for now, and since I have the extra 110 watts of pc's leftover, I'll put that on my other 55 gal. fish only, and then on the main reef modify the retro kit down to 2 vho's, and add mh's in there, then all I would need to add in those extra ones to the other tank would be to get my bro to wire up a retro vho kit from the extra 2 vho's. Man I'm just glad we have sooo many choices. Back 30 years ago it was mh's only, I'm sure. Thanks again everyone for all your input, you were all very helpful, and I'm kinda in a way going with most peoples advice, since I'm going to use all kinds of different lights in both tanks now. Thanks again, Ali

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by reefraff
Just as a heads up, If you do decide you want to get an Ice Cap ballast in the future a URI A4 ballast is a less expensive version of the 660 ballast. Both made by Ice Cap, the URI just doesn't have the capability to be hooked up to a dimmer
Thank you! That's good information.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by reefraff
That would hold true in a non vented canopy. Because halides radiate the heat so far away from the source a lot of it still reaches the water even running a fan. With fluorescents you just have more of a chance to vent the heat out before it reaches the water.
Most of the heat transferred to the water from lighting cannot be vented. It's the electromagnetic radiation itself that is heating the water, the hot air in the canopy adds very little heat to the water. You put X amount of MicroEinsteins into the water you get Y amount of heat. It doesn't matter what the light source is or how intense it is.

 

[reefraff]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
Most of the heat transferred to the water from lighting cannot be vented. It's the electromagnetic radiation itself that is heating the water, the hot air in the canopy adds very little heat to the water. You put X amount of MicroEinsteins into the water you get Y amount of heat. It doesn't matter what the light source is or how intense it is.
You don't think heat in the canopy adds to water tempature... We'll Just have to agree to disagree but there's gotta be a reason the custom built halide canopies are so tall.

 

[bang guy]

I'm sure it add some heat. Where we disagree is if it's a significant amount of heat or not. My experience has been that it's not a significant amount of heat.
Perhaps my experience has been coincidence and I'm wrong.
I'm listening though

 

[reefraff]

I have seen aquariums with PC's and VHO's installed in standard height canopies and I don't recall anyone needing a chiller. Every halide lit tank I have seen was either open topped, Had a very tall canopy with fans or ran a chiller. That seems to hold true with other people I've talked lighting with. Perhaps you have seen otherwise. I haven't but then again I've only been into this a few years but I have really thrown myself into it.
By the way, you still doing your blacklight experiment?

 

[bang guy]

Finished the Blacklight experiment to my satisfaction. It was very obvious that the Black light was harmless to all of the animals I had in the tank. Some were stressed from lack of light but others seemed to be able to use the blacklight somehow for photosynthesis. Pretty cool IMO.
Plexiglass is a pretty good insulator. What do you predict would happen if you sealed bottom of the canopy with plexiglass so that the hot air could not contact the water?
Would it surprise you if I discovered that there was no change to the water temp? The canopy I used to have a long time ago sat about 2" above above the tank. When I switched from 160 watts of NO to 500 watts of MH my water temp was difficult to control. I, like you, thought I'll just prevent all that hot air from heating up the water and sealed the bottom of the canopy. The canopy was vented already but I also added a fan to the canopy to get the hot air out.
The tank temp didn't even change 1/10th of a degree. When I moved the fan from the canopy to blow under the canopy across the water the temp dropped 5 degrees really quickly and stressed out my corals.

 

[alison]

That's a really cool idea about sealing the bottom of the canopy with plexiglass so it doesn't heat up the water. But how far are your mh's from the plexiglass? Does it melt the plexiglass a little? Or did you find a plexiglass that withstands the super high heat? ~Ali

 

[reefraff]

Originally posted by alison
That's a really cool idea about sealing the bottom of the canopy with plexiglass so it doesn't heat up the water. But how far are your mh's from the plexiglass? Does it melt the plexiglass a little? Or did you find a plexiglass that withstands the super high heat? ~Ali

That's what I was wondering. 2" canopy. Did you mean 2 feet?
AlsoI don't think it ishot air that heats the water, or at least over heats it. I thinkit is the radiated heat from the lamp itself. Like the heating eliment in a toster or electric stove.

 

[bang guy]

I meant the canopy was on legs and seated 2" above the tank. It made feeding easier. It was a 10" tall canopy and the heat warped the plexiglass a little but not too bad. Once I saw that it didn't make any difference I took it back off.
Radiant heat = infrared radiation = you still can't blow it out of the canopy.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by alison
That's a really cool idea about sealing the bottom of the canopy with plexiglass so it doesn't heat up the water.
I thought it sounded good too when I did it. It didn't do anything though, absolutely no effect whatsoever.

 

[alison]

Guy, thanks for lettin us know. ~Ali

 

[reefraff]

Bang
So your canopy, with legs was 12" above the tank. That is the point I am trying to make, you need to keep halides farther above the water because the heat radiates a lot farther away from the lamp. I have a 72" tank with what specs out to 600 watts of fluorescent lamps that are 3 3/8 inches above the surface of the water. I run 2 three inch variable speed fans and even leaving the glass tops on the tank have no issues with heat. Do you think I could do the same running three 175 watt halides without a chiller? I have not seen or heard of anyone doing it, not to say it hasn't happened. At any rate for my part I wont beat the horse any more, fun debate but it sounds like Alison has a pretty good plan worked out.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by reefraff
Do you think I could do the same running three 175 watt halides without a chiller?
Yep, I believe you could. It would be interesting as it would permanently settle this. Until then debate is the only tool we have to learn

 

[townsdp]

I don't know if this matters, but, I once worked at a shop where we did window tinting. Lexan as well as normal tempered glass filters light a small amount. It doesn't seem like it, but, when you put either on a light reduction meter, they block almost 10-15% of uv light, at least in our experience. That's is why I thought nobody ran glass between lights and the tank.
Also, question about the icecap ballast. Someone said you could hook it up to a dimmer. I like to have my actinic blues come on a little while before the actinic whites. On one ballast, it this possible? I didn't think so, but maybe there is.

 

[reefraff]

Two seperate times on a sigle ballast, Then how would they be able to sell you two ballasts? Maybe some technoid will modify an Ice Cap ballasts for two different channels but it wont work for now.

 

[townsdp]

I can't find any info on the net about the uri a4 ballast except the price. I am ordering an icecap 430 next week for my 75g. I was going to run 2x48" VHO at first and add one more if I'm not happy with the light output. I will be running zoos, mushrooms, leathers, no stonies or clams. Someone here said it is the same as a 660 ballast. I don't need a dimmer, but I want the same efficiency, quiet, and wiring flexibility of a 660. Would the A4 be fine?

 

[townsdp]

I can't find any info on the net about the uri a4 ballast except the price. I am ordering an icecap 430 next week for my 75g. I was going to run 2x48" VHO at first and add one more if I'm not happy with the light output. I will be running zoos, mushrooms, leathers, no stonies or clams. Reefraff said it is the same as a 660 ballast. I don't need a dimmer, but I want the same efficiency, quiet, and wiring flexibility of a 660. Would the A4 be fine?

 

[reefraff]

They are very similar. No dimming and the 660 is rated to run T5 but Ice Cap says the URI A4 is only for VHO (but I did run my T5's on one for a couple weeks). I had a problem with a 660 and ordered a Uri until the 660 was repaired. The wiring was slightly different but I was able to plug the 660 harness directly into the URI ballast and just made a jumper between two of the pins to make it work.
Hope that makes you feel better about it.
This is from a web site:
See details IceCap / URI 4 Electronic Ballast
Truly the best buy in IceCap VHO Electronic ballasts. Almost the same design as the IceCap 660 but does not dim and does not require a heat sink.
Will power 2, 3 or 4 VHO lamps up to 440 watts. So if you don't plan to use a dimmer, this is your ballast.

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