Video of my Upside down Seahorse

flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
HUGE sigh...I really hate crap like this.
I'm pretty sure my seahorse has air trapped in his pouch. He is eating great, but can only upright himself when he is hitched...I have the video of what is going on...and him eating.
He can't swim, he just thrashes about until he can grab something to hold onto. I call him Birdie.
I know I need to let the air out, but I'm not really all that confident of how to do it. Then I have another problem. This tank has a canopy with the light on top...without the canopy I can't see the horses to grab them...and unless Birdie is flying upside down, I won't be able to tell without the lights which one he is...how dangerous would it be to pry them from their hiding hitch that they hug up to when they are afraid, so that I can see which one can't swim?
So I need some advice....on what I need to do.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Are you sure there are no bubbles on the tail? Mine floated like that when it had the gbd
Did you go to the seahorse site? They have (or had) detailed instructions on how to release air from the pouch.....
OH, How do you know that's what it is?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/395634/video-of-my-upside-down-seahorse#post_3522665
Are you sure there are no bubbles on the tail? Mine floated like that when it had the gbd
Did you go to the seahorse site? They have (or had) detailed instructions on how to release air from the pouch.....
OH, How do you know that's what it is?
On the seahorse site I looked at all the possible problems so I could identify it if it happened to my horses. I'm pretty sure that's what it is. The potbelly horses always float crazy like that after they try and mate...but they get over it. This is the first I have noticed it with the Kuda horses. He is eating really good so I'm not all freaked out, but I really shudder to think I may have to release air from his pouch...It really isn't a pouch from what I see, it's a hole in the belly with a slit going vertical...let me find a picture close up where it can be seen.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
No bubbles on the tail...they are just really big seahorses, and the tail bumps are spikey. He really doesn't even look all that puffy in the belly either...They are fat and always look prego to me.

Also...Just to clarify...that picture above was taken a while back...I posted it to just show what their belly looks like. I can't get a good picture of Birdie because he hugs the rocks and such, going from one hitch to the other, he only releases to try and chase his food down, and goes upside down. These guys won't eat unless the food is all over the place for them to chase...if you keep watching the video you can see he eats plenty.
 
S

saxman

Guest
There are a couple of ways to perform a pouch evac. One is to use a catheter sleeve or cannula. Grab the SH, and find it's pouch opening, then gently "tease" the cannula into the opening and gently press the air out (don't rub, kind of "knead" it like a tube of toothpaste). You have to do this while holding the SH out of the water. You can also try teasing the the pouch open with the rubber tip of a bobby pin if you don't have a cannula (Dan @ SH Source sells them BTW).
Some males will squeeze their pouches shut, which makes it tuff to do, but be patient and gentle. Some of them will even "growl" at you...you can feel them vibrating. Also, we've had a SH that decided it hated Renee for flushing its pouch and doing evacs, so it literally threw a tantrum if it saw her near the tank (looked like it was seizing, but it was "bucking").
There are indeed complete evac instructions on the org tho...I think there are even photos.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-ZHWg3YsEQ
Try that one for the audio. It's hard to see but she walks you through the procedure pretty well. It's how I did it.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Thank you guys!!! I will watch the video link...Nobody addressed if it was dangerous to pry them from a hitch if they are all hugged up on it...Looking down from above the tank, I can't tell which one is Birdie, until he swims upside down..
Really...I have to make my seahorse hate me...???? They growl?? Did your horse hate you after you did that Nova?
I will order what I need right away from Dan. I should have had it on hand.

Can I hold the horses head under water so he can breath? I just hate the thought of him feeling suffocated on top of being molested by a giant alien creature....probing his little opening, and kneading him like bread.
He is eating well...can't he just live like he is? If not, how long before it takes it's toll? and...Is there any possibility he could fix himself without me bothering him? What do they do in the wild?
 
S

saxman

Guest
Flower, that SH was a "problem child" and ended up needing Baytril pouch flushes, so it was manhandled quite a bit. You need to unwind the SH from the hitch...I know they can be strong, but you'll get the hang of it.
Does the SH in question flush his pouch a lot, esp. while sitting in the bubble streams? That could be why he has PE. The trouble with leaving the SH this way is that it will wear them out as just keeping themselves submerged takes its toll. It's scary, but once you do one evac, you'll go "that wasn't so bad".
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Okay...I went on the site to order the cannula...but it says this in the section to order
They are also effective for administering pouch flushes with acetazolamide, and for pouch evacuations.
They don't sell acetazolamide...do I need that too, what is it, and how do I get it?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I put my order for the cannula...I ordered two, I guess I figured I needed a back up and I want it on hand. The horses have lights out, and defiance is coming on...so I'm off. Please post an answer to the above question. If I need that stuff, I need to know where to get it.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
With a little searching I found out about the medicine...GBD. Which thank goodness my horse doesn't have.
I couldn't see anything on the video, however the seahorse seemed to stay submerged while the pouch was evacuated, not out of water at all. I have three air lines going into this tank and this horse does like to sit in the bubbles. Should I make the bubbles weaker? I do have a way to dial it down.
Little update on the tank: If something is wrong with my setup for seahorses, please let me know so I can fix it.
I don't have power heads in this tank, and the air lines are the only thing besides the HOB filter, and the chiller output that moves the water at all. My little in tank refugium was infested with aptasia, so I removed it, and the front column section as well for the same reason.
There is freshwater trapped inside the column decoration after I scrubbed it. It's sitting on the table on the deck exposed to the elements in hopes of killing any aptasia on it forever, the trapped water is stale, and I'm afraid to put it back into the tank until all the inside water evaporates. Temporally I have some fake plants to give the horses something to hitch to. I will replace the front column section when I feel confident that it's safe to use. I have branch rock covered in red macros on the left side. The rear columns are still intact and covered with macros as well.


 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/395634/video-of-my-upside-down-seahorse#post_3522708
There are a couple of ways to perform a pouch evac. One is to use a catheter sleeve or cannula. Grab the SH, and find it's pouch opening, then gently "tease" the cannula into the opening and gently press the air out (don't rub, kind of "knead" it like a tube of toothpaste). You have to do this while holding the SH out of the water. You can also try teasing the the pouch open with the rubber tip of a bobby pin if you don't have a cannula (Dan @ SH Source sells them BTW).
Some males will squeeze their pouches shut, which makes it tuff to do, but be patient and gentle. Some of them will even "growl" at you...you can feel them vibrating. Also, we've had a SH that decided it hated Renee for flushing its pouch and doing evacs, so it literally threw a tantrum if it saw her near the tank (looked like it was seizing, but it was "bucking").
There are indeed complete evac instructions on the org tho...I think there are even photos.
I'm confused....http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/pouchevac/pouchevac.shtml
The written explanation says to keep the horse underwater, and that's what she is doing...but the second set of pictures, clearly the horse is out of the water. I'm guessing if the air will come out without forcing the pouch open, to do it underwater but if it needs extra help do it out of the water....but I want to be sure before I ever try it.
 
S

saxman

Guest
If you've ever tried to do a PE on a stubborn SH, there's no way you can do it in the water...sometimes it took both of us to do it...
You need to use antibiotic flushes if the SH's pouch is infected and the PE keeps recurring.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/395634/video-of-my-upside-down-seahorse#post_3522811
If you've ever tried to do a PE on a stubborn SH, there's no way you can do it in the water...sometimes it took both of us to do it...
You need to use antibiotic flushes if the SH's pouch is infected and the PE keeps recurring.
Okay...how long can a seahorse go without air (um..water breath)? This is starting to sound almost impossible without help....I may have to have my daughter come out to help me...she won't be coming out until Friday.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
UPDATE: I did it!
Hi,
I was trying to wait until my daughter came out on Sunday to help me...but he spent last night barely submerged holding onto an air line....so this morning I got my Cannula that arrived yesterday, and bobby pin just in case one wouldn't work, the other would. I scooped some water from the tank into a glass bowl, since standing too long is impossible for me to do. My horse had lots of fight in him. Nerve wrecking does not describe how nervous I was.
I kept him underwater. I tried first to try and coax the air out, hoping he would just relax...didn't happen. It didn't help that my eyes are bad, and I was using reader glasses to try and find his pouch and not his anus...poor critter. I finally got some air bubbles to come out. I kept the pouch open and applied gentle pressure on the base of his pouch trying to make sure all the air was out. He jerked his head at me, and I felt him vibrate like he was growling at me. He lost all his fight and went limp....I put him back in the tank...he still couldn't swim.
I took him back out and tried again. I didn't get anymore bubbles that I could tell. I put him in the tank and released him, and he just floated helplessly ( I feared I had killed him with shock) He just let the water current carry him. Then he full up-righted himself, but only for a moment, he acted like he was just so weak, then grabbed a leaf to hitch...he is upright, and now went to hide.
He isn't eating but I figure he is too upset, hopefully he will eat tonight. Thank you guys for all your help. I will keep an eye on him and hope he is okay. I also stopped the airline that bubbled under the rock he likes to hitch to. Right now he is hugging the chiller pipe.... Boy oh boy is he mad at me.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Oh...you have one cheesed-off SH, for sure Flower. At least you were warned about the growling and bucking...it kinda scares peeps if they don't expect it. Great job on the evac...I know it's scary, but SH are actually pretty tuff critters in some ways.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
I had a big red one that I couldn't wrap my hand around he was so mighty. He would use his tail to pry my fingers off him.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/395634/video-of-my-upside-down-seahorse#post_3523053
This one...the epitome of a bright red WC male H. reidi:

Wow, now that fellow is beautiful! You would think with all the red macros in the tank mine would change color...they just stay dark.
Any idea how long it will take him to calm down and act normal? I hope I didn't hurt him, he is wrapped around the chiller outlet and hasn't moved since I returned him to the tank..
 
S

saxman

Guest
He'll sulk for a bit, but will come out when he's hungry.
That red reidi was a wild-caught specimen that Renee had back when SH were a lot more of a "mystery" to keep. She said he was a full 8"+. Unfortunately, she lost him while she was visiting me here in CA, and her dog/house sitter shut off the wrong wall switch...
 
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