Water change ?????to do or not to do

[jc germ]

So I have a open top tank and the water evaporates fast really fast so I do water top up every day about 10 to 15 liters that comes up to +- 450 L a month
now my question is must I still do a water change once a month if I top up the 450L a month

which is more than 20% of all my
water? I have a 1500L tank...
Thanks in advance Juan

 

[meowzer]

YES....when doing a w/c you are replenishing necessary supplements

 

[geoj]

Yes and No, it depends on your skill as a keeper. A water change is to keep waste levels down and mineral levels up. I have gone three months with no water change but I dose and don’t feed the tank much.

 

[meowzer]

LOL...I forgot to add the part about removing waste also.....it's getting late haha

 

[jc germ]

I test my water about once a week and all is fine I have not done a water change now for a month and a half and tested the water yesterday and was perfect so must I maybe just do a water change every second month or just keep to my monthly changes??? if so I’m changing allot of water in a month 450l top up and then 10% of 150L

 

[meowzer]

Topping off is not the same as water changes.....you are changing nothing....just adding what has evaporated
You will get many different opinions on this....I like to do water changes every other week
If you are not having any issues then do what works for you

 

[jc germ]

sweet thanks meowzer ill then just stick to my monthly water changes of 10-20% whoop whoop

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by jc germ
http:///forum/post/3180302
sweet thanks meowzer ill then just stick to my monthly water changes of 10-20% whoop whoop
LOL, this was one of my very first questions back when I got serious about aquariums years ago. As meowzers points out, when water evaporates, it's just H2O. All the by-products/waste/heck even salt, stays behind in the tank. When you top off you're only replacing the H2O that left (true, you are diluting the tank by a small percent though)
With water changes you remove everything (by the percentage waterchange you do).
About to do them or not, it depends on your specific tank. IMO/IME even if you have really good levels, I would still do some waterchanges. Your tank can filter out the bad stuff, but there is no way to add allthe nutrients back into the tank. There is no records for exactly what every living thing needs in aquariums.

 

[bmkj02]

Depends on tank size as well. Smaller tanks require more maintenace and water changes. Example: I had 3 tanks, 24g aquapod that requires a water change every month. It also includes a 20g sump. My 55g (which I no longer have) required a change every 2-3 months and my 125g every 5-6 months. Once I see a sign of Nitrates I change it right away. Many will disagree but so much maintenance on this discourages people from this hobby and I love it too much to leave it. Good filter, skimmer,lighting and everything else should keep your water changes less.

 

[racingtiger03]

Lately with the heat running in the house I've had to top off about a gallon a day, and still do a 10-20% water change at the end of the week with all levels in check. (My tank is only a 29 gallon). But as someone else pointed out, there is no way to test for all the trace elements that the creatures inside our tanks may need.

 

[geoj]

Originally Posted by racingtiger03
http:///forum/post/3180432
Lately with the heat running in the house I've had to top off about a gallon a day, and still do a 10-20% water change at the end of the week with all levels in check. (My tank is only a 29 gallon). But as someone else pointed out, there is no way to test for all the trace elements that the creatures inside our tanks may need.
IMO: Trace elements are not justification for water changes. If you read Marine Chemistry By: Brightwell, as of its publication you will find that we still don’t know how much of what is enough or too much. There are some elements that are used up and others that are not used at all. So the salt mix you are using does not create the correct levels of trace elements from the start, because we don’t know what that is. With water changes some trace elements will become chronically low. The only fix if you trust that the salt mix is good enough is to do a couple of huge water changes every so often or dose the trace elements that will become chronically low. Ether way we are doing it blindly. A 10-20% water change will not raise the low trace elements…

 

[jc germ]

thanks all ill keep all of this in mind thanks again

 

[racingtiger03]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/3180774
IMO: Trace elements are not justification for water changes. If you read Marine Chemistry By: Brightwell, as of its publication you will find that we still don’t know how much of what is enough or too much. There are some elements that are used up and others that are not used at all. So the salt mix you are using does not create the correct levels of trace elements from the start, because we don’t know what that is. With water changes some trace elements will become chronically low. The only fix if you trust that the salt mix is good enough is to do a couple of huge water changes every so often or dose the trace elements that will become chronically low. Ether way we are doing it blindly. A 10-20% water change will not raise the low trace elements…

hmm, thanks for that info. Just proves how much reading I have yet to do on the tank chemistry. I've been focusing on the balance between alkalinity, ph, and calcium lately. Looks like I know what I'll be doing over the christmast break...
I had just assumed since the salt had some trace elements within it that a small change could help boost that. From what you say I could actually be removing trace elements I (may) need with that small water change every week? Thats disturbing on many levels... lol.

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/3180774
IMO: Trace elements are not justification for water changes. If you read Marine Chemistry By: Brightwell, as of its publication you will find that we still don’t know how much of what is enough or too much. There are some elements that are used up and others that are not used at all. So the salt mix you are using does not create the correct levels of trace elements from the start, because we don’t know what that is. With water changes some trace elements will become chronically low. The only fix if you trust that the salt mix is good enough is to do a couple of huge water changes every so often or dose the trace elements that will become chronically low. Ether way we are doing it blindly. A 10-20% water change will not raise the low trace elements…

Let me first make the point that science differentiates between the major ELEMENTS in sea water (calcium, strontium, magnesium) and the minor TRACE ELEMENTS (Iodine, Iodide, Zinc, etc). While it's true we know less about trace elements, we know a lot about the major elements, and water changes of 10-20% DEFINATELY improve these levels.
Let's take calcium - quite possibly the most discussed major element in our tanks. We KNOW ocean water has 380-420mg/liter of calc in it. Wouldn't it make sense then that 380mg-420mg is the minimum we should strive for? Furthermore, based on testing my tank over the last 3-4 years, I know with 100% certainty that my calcium is raised with small (20%) water changes using TMarin salt. I KNOW this. Stony corals and coralline use up calcium. So if my calcium drops to 320ppm, and I do a 20% water change with water that reads 500ppm, I WILL SEE AN INCREASE IN CALC - PERIOD.
So before we dismiss water changes because of our lack of understanding of trace elements, let's look at the whole story. We may not know the importance of some trace elements, but in addition to lowering nitrates, phosphates, and removing waste, water changes of 10-20% most definately replenish the major elements that are important to our tanks.
So to answer the original poster's question, you top off to keep your SG stable. You do water changes to make sure your tank is healthy (remove ammonia, trites, trates, phates, detritus) and to make sure your major element levels are ideal.
For a second, throw away all the science and think to yourself:
Is it more natural for an ocean-dwelling creature to live in the same 30 gallons of water for months, or is it more natural for that water to be frequently replenished?
When I think about it like that it makes changing the water the clear choice.

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/3180774
IMO: Trace elements are not justification for water changes. If you read Marine Chemistry By: Brightwell, as of its publication you will find that we still don’t know how much of what is enough or too much. There are some elements that are used up and others that are not used at all. So the salt mix you are using does not create the correct levels of trace elements from the start, because we don’t know what that is. With water changes some trace elements will become chronically low. The only fix if you trust that the salt mix is good enough is to do a couple of huge water changes every so often or dose the trace elements that will become chronically low. Ether way we are doing it blindly. A 10-20% water change will not raise the low trace elements…
I also want to touch on the logic of the post.
You claim that we don't know what trace element levels are enough/too little/too much. But in the same breath you say some trace elements will become "chronically low" so the only way to raise these trace elements is dose the tank?

huh???
Please understand I agree that we don't know as much about trace elements as we do major elements - Im simply questioning the LOGIC of your argument. I mean, if what you say is true and we don't know what is "enough," then how could we possibly define a trace element reading as being "chronically low?"

 

[geoj]

It is not that your taking out the trace elements it is what is left in. You leave 80% of the water in the tank low in trace elements and the 20% of new salt mix is all at what we assume is good enough. This means that over time we would end up with less and less of the consumable trace elements.

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/3180945
It is not that your taking out the trace elements it is what is left in. You leave 80% of the water in the tank low in trace elements and the 20% of new salt mix is all at what we assume is good enough. This means that over time we would end up with less and less of the consumable trace elements.
Are you differentiating between major elements and trace elements?
Or are you arguing that a major like calcium drops via water changes?

 

[geoj]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3180940
Let me first make the point that science differentiates between the major ELEMENTS in sea water (calcium, strontium, magnesium) and the minor TRACE ELEMENTS (Iodine, Iodide, Zinc, etc). While it's true we know less about trace elements, we know a lot about the major elements, and water changes of 10-20% DEFINATELY improve these levels.
Let's take calcium - quite possibly the most discussed major element in our tanks. We KNOW ocean water has 380-420mg/liter of calc in it. Wouldn't it make sense then that 380mg-420mg is the minimum we should strive for? Furthermore, based on testing my tank over the last 3-4 years, I know with 100% certainty that my calcium is raised with small (20%) water changes using TMarin salt. I KNOW this. Stony corals and coralline use up calcium. So if my calcium drops to 320ppm, and I do a 20% water change with water that reads 500ppm, I WILL SEE AN INCREASE IN CALC - PERIOD.
So before we dismiss water changes because of our lack of understanding of trace elements, let's look at the whole story. We may not know the importance of some trace elements, but in addition to lowering nitrates, phosphates, and removing waste, water changes of 10-20% most definately replenish the major elements that are important to our tanks.
So to answer the original poster's question, you top off to keep your SG stable. You do water changes to make sure your tank is healthy (remove ammonia, trites, trates, phates, detritus) and to make sure your major element levels are ideal.
For a second, throw away all the science and think to yourself:
Is it more natural for an ocean-dwelling creature to live in the same 30 gallons of water for months, or is it more natural for that water to be frequently replenished?
When I think about it like that it makes changing the water the clear choice.
I do not dismiss water changes my point is that we can’t use trace elements for justification for water changes until we know what to test for. Then as the logic of your post shows you can prove if there is benefit or prove if there is none. Chemistry can be counter intuitive. Some times you add a buffer and the pH falls and we scratch are head wondering why.

 

[geoj]

Each element is different
With calcium and alkalinity we have all these and more combining and braking apart raising and lowering the levels so it is not by dilution with 20% new water that calcium goes up after a water change it is through chemistry.
calcium carbonate, carbonate, bicarbonate, calcium chloride, calcium hydroxide, free calcium

 

[geoj]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3180942
I also want to touch on the logic of the post.
You claim that we don't know what trace element levels are enough/too little/too much. But in the same breath you say some trace elements will become "chronically low" so the only way to raise these trace elements is dose the tank? %% huh???
Please understand I agree that we don't know as much about trace elements as we do major elements - Im simply questioning the LOGIC of your argument. I mean, if what you say is true and we don't know what is "enough," then how could we possibly define a trace element reading as being "chronically low?"
Some trace elements are used and then given back to the water remaining at a constant level. Others are rapidly taken up and are not given back. Some are slowly used up. So some of the trace elements must be boosted the salt mix can’t do it there is not enough of these in the mix. You would have to do a 100% water change.
If you are going to assume that the salt company has it close enough.