Water Changes
- Thread starter taz_12777
- Start date
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by Masala4080
Sly, how come no one ever seems to aggree with what you say?
Because this forum has evolved into a self revolving society of yes men. It's a shame too. I've been here over a year and it's amazing how closed minded some people have become. I've found a way to make something work that everyone else seems to be hell bent on telling me I'm wrong when I have the fruit of it right here. It works! I just can't get anybody to listen...
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by acrylic51
Like I said before Tazz check out reef tank forum for thread on water changes and why not just ask some of the real experienced minds here on theories of water changes or check out different site and see what they have to say.... I guarantee you won't find more than a handfull that agree with the theory of no water changes!!!!!!!
Any pics of the correct way to setup filtration system Sly or pics of tank??? I'd like to see pics of the correct way myself....And I guess Bang Lagoon is a waste and not properly setup????
I have spent the last 3 days on thread after thread posting exactly how you set up a cc system. I have complimented Bang Guy on his setup numerous times. Why do you do this to me? I am simply telling of an alternate, low maintenance way of setting up a tank and instead all I have are certain people who buzz around spouting off that it can't be done. Well guess what?!! I've done it. I have a CC system that requires no water changes, a reef setup at that. I will be adding more to it when I move in a month so I'm getting ready to tear it down.
I have read thread after thread of people saying "I have CC. What do I do?" And you people jump in and say "Get rid of it! It will never work." Then when a guy comes in with info on how to make it work, you practically crucify him! This is just stupid. You have the newbies scared because you have them convinced that their LFS is the devil when they sold them CC and now you want them to set up their tank like you have yours.... Well. I'm here to tell them that if they want to keep CC, they can and I've learned (after keeping both) that CC is MUCH better in many ways if you simply do it right.
sly
Active Member
I keep trying to post pics of my tank so you people will leave me alone, but I keep getting this error message...
"There seems to have been a slight problem with the Saltwaterfish.com Message Boards database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.
An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.
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"There seems to have been a slight problem with the Saltwaterfish.com Message Boards database.
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acrylic51
Active Member
What I'm trying to say is I don't think your information is totally accurate and with you saying water changes aren't needed is absurd!!!!!! And when you say that you add additives I think your "messing" or playing around more with the tank than a simple routine water change..... I'm waiting to see proof and haven't had a problem posting pic!!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally posted by Sly
Because this forum has evolved into a self revolving society of yes men. It's a shame too. I've been here over a year and it's amazing how closed minded some people have become. I've found a way to make something work that everyone else seems to be hell bent on telling me I'm wrong when I have the fruit of it right here. It works! I just can't get anybody to listen...
If you've found the "fruit" of it why hasn't your threories or study been published as of yet?? Wouldn't it be nice to share your findings????
bang guy
Moderator
Originally posted by Sly
I keep trying to post pics of my tank so you people will leave me alone, but I keep getting this error message...
Send me the pic guynwarsaw@yahoo.com and I'll post it for you tonight.
As I recall Steve Weast has a CC based tank....
slowest is fastest
Member
Don't send them to bang...he doesn't check his email
J/K
FWIW
I used to subscribe to the no water change theory. I thought if the nitrates (and other tests) were low or undetectable then everything was OK. I had growth in my tanks and everything seemed and looked "fine". Now 15 years later (and some time ago) I realized that while color, growth and overall health can be maintained "exceptional" color, growth and health can only IME/O be achieved through and with water changes.
It can be difficult to change tried and true methods but one thing is certain...to test your system against something others have used with equal success all you need do is a regular water change for 6 consecutive months. One of two things will happen, either you will see an improvement or you won't. If you see no improvement after six months then you can discontinue the water changes and you have lost nothing. If you do see an improvement then it seems, you will again have lost nothing and perhaps even benefited...win, win.
Something else to perhaps consider is you seem to have completely torn down your system at least once when you moved and perhaps a large change and/or substantial maintenance when your refugium started leaking. You will again be moving and another mass cleaning will (?) occur. Since most systems IMO do not mature and fully stabilize until month 10-12 your tank (in the grand scheme of things) has had little chance to "prove" itself...no offense or flame intended., without a major event or change along the way. You may indeed have a complete closed ecosystem but without direct long term experience with another method it seems it would be difficult to draw an absolute conclusion to that effect. Sorry for the rant.
FWIW
Next month will be the 4-year anniversary of the 29-gallon tank in my office. It was set up to prove/show my co-workers that a saltwater fish tank is just as easy to keep as a freshwater fish tank. I have never done any maintenance (aside from cleaning the glass) of any kind. I intentionally neglect the tank I add water (sodium free distilled water) only when the rio on the BackPak sucks air and stops running, when the powerhead stopped working I unplugged it, when the powerfilter stopped working I unplugged it. When the heater came loose I just let it hang in the tank. I have 3/4" of "grunge" like material on the bottom and about 25lbs of live rock. The backpak stopped skimming long ago and now just circulates water through the media that came with it. The light bulbs work most of the time (now that’s bulb life for you) and overall the tank looks as neglected as it is.
There are two fish...a flame angel and a nox angle. Both are original to the tank (just under 4 years) their growth has been steady (slow but steady) I would guess that both are about fully grown at 3 1/2" I originally had 7 fish…all very small at the time it was my rainbow tank (red, yellow, orange, green blue, purple fish) In addition to the flame(substituted for red) and nox I had a purple pseudochromis (removed due to aggression), lemonpeel angel(sold to another hobbyist that couldn’t get a healthy one shipped in), a blue hippo tang(still alive and well in 125 gallon tank), and a green coris wrasse (returned to LFS when he outgrew the tank)
The water is clear and not yellow even when checked in a white cup. There is no trace of ammonia or nitrite and depending on what kind of flake food I use a get the occasional cyno bloom from phosphates. There are no other nuisance algae growing in the tank as well as no macros. The tank has never seen an illness ich or other. The one thing that has climbed off the chart is NITRATES. I suspect that they are well in excess of 130+ppm. About a year ago they were right at 100ppm and I have no reason to think they have done anything but climb.
Bottom line is that with supplemental filtration and water changes I am confident I could bring the tank back down to "acceptable" levels but that isn't the point. I have not added livestock for fear of further raising the bioload and more importantly I do not believe many if any other fish could/would survive. Next month at the end of year four I intend to tear the tank down (my point being made to everyone in the office) and reset the tank for the next experiment COLD WATER but that is another post.
Can a tank be run without water changes...YES but in my experience and opinion it is not a good idea IF you want to enjoy the "BEST" a saltwater tank has to offer.
Regards,
SiF
PS pictures available upon request
FWIW
I used to subscribe to the no water change theory. I thought if the nitrates (and other tests) were low or undetectable then everything was OK. I had growth in my tanks and everything seemed and looked "fine". Now 15 years later (and some time ago) I realized that while color, growth and overall health can be maintained "exceptional" color, growth and health can only IME/O be achieved through and with water changes.
It can be difficult to change tried and true methods but one thing is certain...to test your system against something others have used with equal success all you need do is a regular water change for 6 consecutive months. One of two things will happen, either you will see an improvement or you won't. If you see no improvement after six months then you can discontinue the water changes and you have lost nothing. If you do see an improvement then it seems, you will again have lost nothing and perhaps even benefited...win, win.
Something else to perhaps consider is you seem to have completely torn down your system at least once when you moved and perhaps a large change and/or substantial maintenance when your refugium started leaking. You will again be moving and another mass cleaning will (?) occur. Since most systems IMO do not mature and fully stabilize until month 10-12 your tank (in the grand scheme of things) has had little chance to "prove" itself...no offense or flame intended.
, without a major event or change along the way. You may indeed have a complete closed ecosystem but without direct long term experience with another method it seems it would be difficult to draw an absolute conclusion to that effect. Sorry for the rant.FWIW
Next month will be the 4-year anniversary of the 29-gallon tank in my office. It was set up to prove/show my co-workers that a saltwater fish tank is just as easy to keep as a freshwater fish tank. I have never done any maintenance (aside from cleaning the glass) of any kind. I intentionally neglect the tank I add water (sodium free distilled water) only when the rio on the BackPak sucks air and stops running, when the powerhead stopped working I unplugged it, when the powerfilter stopped working I unplugged it. When the heater came loose I just let it hang in the tank. I have 3/4" of "grunge" like material on the bottom and about 25lbs of live rock. The backpak stopped skimming long ago and now just circulates water through the media that came with it. The light bulbs work most of the time (now that’s bulb life for you) and overall the tank looks as neglected as it is.
There are two fish...a flame angel and a nox angle. Both are original to the tank (just under 4 years) their growth has been steady (slow but steady) I would guess that both are about fully grown at 3 1/2" I originally had 7 fish…all very small at the time it was my rainbow tank (red, yellow, orange, green blue, purple fish) In addition to the flame(substituted for red) and nox I had a purple pseudochromis (removed due to aggression), lemonpeel angel(sold to another hobbyist that couldn’t get a healthy one shipped in), a blue hippo tang(still alive and well in 125 gallon tank), and a green coris wrasse (returned to LFS when he outgrew the tank)
The water is clear and not yellow even when checked in a white cup. There is no trace of ammonia or nitrite and depending on what kind of flake food I use a get the occasional cyno bloom from phosphates. There are no other nuisance algae growing in the tank as well as no macros. The tank has never seen an illness ich or other. The one thing that has climbed off the chart is NITRATES. I suspect that they are well in excess of 130+ppm. About a year ago they were right at 100ppm and I have no reason to think they have done anything but climb.
Bottom line is that with supplemental filtration and water changes I am confident I could bring the tank back down to "acceptable" levels but that isn't the point. I have not added livestock for fear of further raising the bioload and more importantly I do not believe many if any other fish could/would survive. Next month at the end of year four I intend to tear the tank down (my point being made to everyone in the office) and reset the tank for the next experiment COLD WATER
but that is another post.Can a tank be run without water changes...YES but in my experience and opinion it is not a good idea IF you want to enjoy the "BEST" a saltwater tank has to offer.
Regards,
SiF
PS pictures available upon request
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally posted by Bang Guy
Send me the pic guynwarsaw@yahoo.com and I'll post it for you tonight.
As I recall Steve Weast has a CC based tank....
True Steve West does run CC in his tank, but he also mentions that he totally replaces the CC in his tank as well, and he also does water changes....
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by acrylic51
I'm waiting to see proof and haven't had a problem posting pic!!!!!
Well I have. What is wrong with you people? It's not everyone in the forum... It's just certain trolls who seem to flock together and smash anything that does not apply to them!
I'm still trying to get up some pics of the actuall filter system. I can't take any new pics yet because I haven't gotten my USB to work since I reinstalled Linux. When I get the USB to read, I'll upload more pics and detailed descriptions. I feel like I'm at the "witch trials"...
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by acrylic51
Thanks!!!!!
Why are you thanking him? He agreed with me...
"Can a tank be run without water changes...YES but in my experience and opinion it is not a good idea IF you want to enjoy the "BEST" a saltwater tank has to offer"
In his case it wasn't the best situation, but not all variables were the same. I saw no mention of a setup even remotely like the one I have. He's just citing from his experience. I'm citing from mine. He has high nitrates. I have 0 and I haven't done a water change in about a year. Apples and oranges, but he did admit that it could be done. I'm just trying to tell people how to do it.
loup
Member
i agree w/ sly. If the water parameter are good, there is no need to change it. I'll take out the power head and clean it here and there and scrap my tank, clean my skimmer and filter system as needed. I'll do water change if needed as i don't want to stress out my fishes if i don't have to. JMO. Though I check my parameter often to make sure.
sly
Active Member
Thank you.
I do the same thing in my setup. I rinse out the prefilters to remove any detrius that collects in them and I keep the glass clean of any algae haze. I don't do water changes and YES, doing anything to disturb your tank, especially water changes, stresses your fish. I do water tests every week or so just to make sure also, but in a year's time, nothing has changed. I've had this tank setup for 4 years with no problems except a year ago when my refugium developed a leak. That is when I did my first water change, because I had to... Not because it needed it.
BTW, I don't add anything to my tank to keep it "clean". I only use additives ocassionally to keep the levels right. If the alk drops, I increase it. If the plants start to turn a little yellow, I add Iron. If the snails aren't eating as much as they normally do, I add Iodine. I only add things that I can test for. Other than that, I let the filter system do the rest. No water changes DOES work.
I do the same thing in my setup. I rinse out the prefilters to remove any detrius that collects in them and I keep the glass clean of any algae haze. I don't do water changes and YES, doing anything to disturb your tank, especially water changes, stresses your fish. I do water tests every week or so just to make sure also, but in a year's time, nothing has changed. I've had this tank setup for 4 years with no problems except a year ago when my refugium developed a leak. That is when I did my first water change, because I had to... Not because it needed it.
BTW, I don't add anything to my tank to keep it "clean". I only use additives ocassionally to keep the levels right. If the alk drops, I increase it. If the plants start to turn a little yellow, I add Iron. If the snails aren't eating as much as they normally do, I add Iodine. I only add things that I can test for. Other than that, I let the filter system do the rest. No water changes DOES work.
reefnut
Active Member
but he did admit that it could be done.
Yes it could be done by why?? Bottom line is your tank will be healthier with water changes.
and YES, doing anything to disturb your tank, especially water changes, stresses your fish.
I disagree, I do water changes all the time w/o stressing my fish... at least they show NO signs of stress.
.
A picture is worth a thousand words
Yes it could be done by why?? Bottom line is your tank will be healthier with water changes.
and YES, doing anything to disturb your tank, especially water changes, stresses your fish.
I disagree, I do water changes all the time w/o stressing my fish... at least they show NO signs of stress.
.
A picture is worth a thousand words
sly
Active Member
Originally posted by ReefNut
but he did admit that it could be done.
I disagree, I do water changes all the time w/o stressing my fish... at least they show NO signs of stress.
I didn't say that you would stress your fish and kill them by doing a water change. But scooping out water and then pouring in new while your fish duck for cover in the blowing wind is not necessarily what I'd call a peaceful day.
A picture is worth a thousand words
What's that mean?
reefnut
Active Member
I didn't say that you would stress your fish and kill them by doing a water change.
nor did I
But scooping out water and then pouring in new while your fish duck for cover in the blowing wind is not necessarily what I'd call a peaceful day.
Well I guess that's all in the way you do it... anything can be stressful if you freak them out. I simply remove water from the display while adding water to the sump. They never even flinch.
nor did I
But scooping out water and then pouring in new while your fish duck for cover in the blowing wind is not necessarily what I'd call a peaceful day.
Well I guess that's all in the way you do it... anything can be stressful if you freak them out. I simply remove water from the display while adding water to the sump. They never even flinch.