we need to but aqua corals!

A

alexmir

Guest
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2604625
A remarkable coral?????
A coral that was living fine on a reef before we "hobbyist" had to have it. The wholesaler thought wow what a bright color. I'll give it a name and charge an out rages amount and someone one will want it.
If the coral sells I’ll go dig more up. So where is the responsible hobbyist at?
A responsible hobbyist would pay that amount grow it out because they like the coral in his/her tank. As the coral grows out, they frag out 1/2 inch and sell it for a couple of dollars, and spread the aquaculture coral around, saving the natural reef from destruction. Right? that’s what the true hobbyist would do, help try and save the natural coral reef and leave them alone slowing the demand for that coral.
NO, I have to make back my 150 bucks on two frags to make back what I paid. So the cycle continues supplier gets more, sells for a couple of bucks cheaper or more but you get more polyps (however it goes) that’s a better deal and the wild caught continue to sell.
I’ll use you as an example (I’m not attacking you or degrading you but using you more as a point)
You have some very pretty yumas/ric we can all agree on that. You like Yuma/ric right? So you buy them and yeah you pay a pretty penny for them. You seem to have a way of making them split, whether it be by your hands and a knives or natural. What effort did you put into that? A water change? Quality salt? Additives? Equipment?
That’s the cost of the hobby for your own enjoyment of the hobby to succeed. The profit? Is the fact that you are taking a wild creature and allowing it to thrive and multiple in your closed ocean, that’s your reward.
So now you have tanks loaded up and littered with yumas/ric, so instead of sending the fruits of your labor out to other enclosed systems to spread your aquaculture coral and building up the aquaculture Yuma/ric population you put a strangle hold on it by charging what you paid for it or close to it.
Your not helping the population, only justifying the reason why to sell at store price not a couple of bucks to fellow hobbyist to fellow hobbyist.
Im not saying yeah three fancy Yuma/ric for 5 bucks, but when a Yuma goes for 125-150 bucks that’s aquaculture to begin with by a hobbyist, don’t say they are responsible or helping the hobby out. Those hobbyist are part of the problem.
Zooanthids for 50 bucks a polyp again those sellers are part of the problem.
I sold five polyps of glowing orange madness for 10 bucks (price covered the cost of everything I used)They are slow growers and glow crazy under high k and even lower k lights but they finally covered the rock so I don’t need anymore, I was not trying to make back what I paid for them, so I’m and idiot I guess for not trying to make a profit on the zoas?
That’s my point. All my coral as they grow get fragged and put into one of my other tanks and they grow they go into another one of my tanks till finely they need to go into new tank outside my house.
Four tanks of aquaculture then off to new waters to start again. Isn’t that what this hobby is about?
Enjoyment and knowing your labor is growing a new colony some place else.
I beg someone to justify charging big money for a coral frag that is in this hobby for the enjoyment.

If any of us were TRULY responsible hobbyists we would not put any kind of creature inside of a small glass box.........
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Flricordia;2605001 said:
Well, you may think I make big money with my rics, I wish I did. And I am sure those that also care for and grow out corals wish the same. It basically pays for salt, electricity and a few other things
That’s the price you pay to be in this hobby.
That’s like racing -- cars but not wanting to pay for fuel. You can’t have one with out the other to do your hobby.
Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605001
but after I buy boxes, insulation, gas to take them to the shipper, time from work and not getting paid from it
Ok, so you tack on the cost of shipping supplies to the frags cost, ok I guess I can see that.
Time off from work, and not getting paid. Dedicated I guess?
I have found ways to mail out my coral with out time lost, but that’s me
Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605001
I spend each evening checking every ricordia and making sure my water parameters are in order,
So do we all? That’s the hobby for which we know no limit to. Why would we be in this hobby let alone on this message board?
Yup my tank is up and running and I’m not going to pay it no mind. That mentality alone weeds out the people who don’t belong.
Originally Posted by Flricordia

http:///forum/post/2605001
worrying after shipping them out that they are going to arrive OK,
That goes with the territory. When we ship our personal frags our names and reputation go in that box and are in the hands of a caring handler.
Originally Posted by Flricordia

http:///forum/post/2605001
, building better systems, tearing them down again and replacing old equipment
Again, I think that’s a main stay in this hobby. Always looking to get better equipment, making our daily lives easier maintaining our tanks. Allowing us to enjoy our hobby with out all the fuss.

Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605001
to provide ricordeas at a good price that I and many others would agree, I do not think that you should bring me into something that you think is not a fair deal within the hobby of SW keeping.
So I and others that I have forward this to can take your stance on your system and your defensiveness that your systems are for profit then. I just used you and a point I’m not attacking your sales, am I?
I never said anything about “a fair deal” I said keepers who feel they can charge what they paid for a coral are part of the problem of the reef being destroyed. Hot pink Yuma 59. Bucks kind of small really but again that’s just one web site that I search and found. My guess wild caught.
Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605001
I myself have no problem with high prices for rare fish and corals (rare being those that do not reproduce to overwhelming population) this keeps the majority of those that buy on impulse and do not take proper care of their charges from raping the reefs.
I don’t follow the raping of the reef. Look around, other sellers see prices that coral get and then they need to get that coral to sell. Go on the internet and look at all the “rare coral” sites popping up all over to get a piece of the proverbial pie. The more of “X” coral that are avail to the people the less raping goes on.
Why would swf carry and sell a coral for 150 when its all over the place like toilet paper.
Impulse shopping is always going to be around. Especially if a shop owner can say “yeah it expensive but your can frag it and sell them to people and recover your cost in no time”
Originally Posted by Flricordia

http:///forum/post/2605001
And you are correct, I chose to do water changes and use quality salt mix. I am guilty of that.
No problem with that, I use quality salt too, along with my ca reactors, and my pinpoint monitors and my Milwaukee monitors and tsunami top off units, and reef master ro/di unit and my two 55 gallon mixing vats plumbed to two 55 gallon holding tanks and my MRC 2 and 3 R skimmers.
That’s the price I pay for my SW hobby and don’t complain about the cost of any of it. Never have never will. My wife might roller her eyes when I eye up a new toy or someone else’s lay out but she excepts my hobby and how it took over the house, I just have to keep it neat looking. That equals new toys.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605001
It does sound to me, and forgive me if I am wrong, that you are a bit stressed out about the cost of this hobby. Maybe you should look into FW or maybe something totally different. Hobbys are meant to be fun and enjoyed.

No, I have no problem with the cost of this hobby, I have been with it since the late 80’s. I did FW and got very board with FW. Then this new phenomena came about called saltwater fish. It was around before then but was very hard to do let alone master. SW was more of a secretive group of keepers when fluvial canisters were the best money could buy working in sync with under gravel filter with crushed coral with two power heads, each sitting on a lift tubes. A skimmer was a piece of plastic with an over flow and a lime wood air stone. We did not know any better and would acclimate the tank with damsels for a month, and then trade them in for clown fish. Coral were not even a thought since Mh systems cost in the thousands. Ro/di filters were for labs only and apa was the best test kit out.
Back when the life expectancy of SW fish were a or two maybe three at best. The only salt was instant ocean.
I have lots of hobbys too. Paintball, scuba, golf, jet ski, pistal and shot guns and my boat.
So.. No I have no problem with the cost of the SW hobby.
Just people justifying making money on aquaculture coral who say they are in the hobby cause they like it and want to help save the natural reef from being devastated or “raped”.
I go to a store and expect store prices, I would not expect fellow hobbyist trying to sell their frags at store prices.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2605004
But if these corals that are now frags in your system were never collected and purchased by someone, you wouldn't have any to trade.
true, but now we take that commodity and maximize it’s potential and use and share it with others.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2605128
If any of us were TRULY responsible hobbyists we would not put any kind of creature inside of a small glass box.........
True. But as responsible hobbyist we don't just put SW creatures in a class box. We try and replicate and mimic their environment to the fullest and never stop doing so. For if we did it would not be a hobby it would simply be a project.
 
A

alexmir

Guest
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2605167
True. But as responsible hobbyist we don't just put SW creatures in a class box. We try and replicate and mimic their environment to the fullest and never stop doing so. For if we did it would not be a hobby it would simply be a project.
Replicating a fishs natural environment is important, but 6 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet of water, rocks, and sand could never completely replicate a natural reef.
Also, the fish eventually get used to the rocks and other things in the tank, and i can imagine they get bored of seeing the same rocks, fish, coral, and food. Putting a tang that may swim hundreds of miles a year out in the open ocean into a 6 foot long tank is not natural. Mabye you should buy those rare, exotic coral, frag and grow them, and then sell them dirt cheap, or give them away.....It doesnt sound like a good idea because it costs you money,and the other person may just turn around and sell it for 4 times as much.
Flricordea would be stupid to give his rics away for 3-4 $, because people would buy them all, and sell them for 20$. And also, selling them very cheap doesnt cover all the costs of growing them.
 
A

alexmir

Guest
I go to a store and expect store prices, I would not expect fellow hobbyist trying to sell their frags at store prices.
Most people on here do not sell frags for store prices, because no one would buy them. Selling a frag pack of 8 types of zoos, and 3 rics for the price flricordea gave me and other hobbyists on here was certainly not store prices.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2605245
Replicating a fishs natural environment is important, but 6 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet of water, rocks, and sand could never completely replicate a natural reef.
You have missed the point of the discussion. All I was saying is aquaculture coral is getting out of hand. As long as people can find wild caught coral that is cheaper then why would they spend the money on aquaculture coral.
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2605245
Replicating a fishs natural environment is important, but 6 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet of water, rocks, and sand could never completely replicate a natural reef.
Also, the fish eventually get used to the rocks and other things in the tank, and i can imagine they get bored of seeing the same rocks, fish, coral, and food. Putting a tang that may swim hundreds of miles a year out in the open ocean into a 6 foot long tank is not natural.
This is more of a moral point about fish then aquaculture coral. What does fish have to do with coral frags?
alexmir;2605245 said:
Mabye you should buy those rare, exotic coral, frag and grow them, and then sell them dirt cheap, or give them away.....It doesnt sound like a good idea because it costs you money,and the other person may just turn around and sell it for 4 times as much. QUOTE]
I do that now, did you not read about my zoas? I don’t care about what I could get. I have palyo grandis (cinnamon stick palys) that I get 8 -10 bucks a polyp but I sold them a frag for 10 bucks.
If person sells my frags for more then oh well. Then guess what that’s a dirt bag move and then at least I now you’re a dirt bag and are in THIS HOBBY FOR PROFIT not to enjoy the hobby.
Originally Posted by alexmir
alexmir;2605245 said:
http:///forum/post/260524
. Flricordea would be stupid to give his rics away for 3-4 $, because people would buy them all, and sell them for 20$. And also, selling them very cheap doesnt cover all the costs of growing them.
Ok, did you read this at all? “cover the cost of growing them” What is that?????? Did Mike get into this hobby to make money or because it’s a hobby he liked and wanted to get into?
Covering the cost of raising them? You will never cover the cost of raising “them“. A bucket of salt cost 50-60 dollars and what ever his electric bill is due to the tanks draw and water cost and yada yada yada the list goes on.
Again I was stating how hobbyist in it for profit are part of the problem, why natural reefs are being raped and devastated.
I never said mike flricordea sells his rics and yumas for big money, I never did. Reread the thread. I used him as a point.
Personally I could careless, I have sunset supermans, pokerstars purple nana, slimmers and other named coral that I frag out and sell relatively cheap. I never said mike should sell his yumas/ric for 3-4 dollars, that would be to go to be true and yes you know some people would flip them for profit.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2605252
I go to a store and expect store prices, I would not expect fellow hobbyist trying to sell their frags at store prices.

Most people on here do not sell frags for store prices, because no one would buy them. Selling a frag pack of 8 types of zoos, and 3 rics for the price flricordea gave me and other hobbyists on here was certainly not store prices.
Yeah, think so? Look around and ask. I have found plenty of coral frags being sold on here for more then a web site sells them for.
Its not as prevalent now that backdoor deals are not happening and members can post their frags for sale with it being locked or the member being thrown off.
I don't doubt flric gave you a great deal once again i never said he was the problem.
In fact i would like to by rics or yumas from him. If the time comes when i want to get ric/yumas i would go and pm him he seems to have a nack for them.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by nycbob
http:///forum/post/2604905
personally i rather trade frags then charge people for it. i gv away my frags all the time to friends and neighbors.
me too, I am guilty of just giving away corals, I have a friend, she loves mushrooms, I dont like them, she bought two off me now she gets the rest for free. if I have to go through the bother of packing and shipping I chanrge for them same with kenya tree, but generally I just give them away if some one is local and is willing to come get them.
its a way of "paying it forward" if you will. if I give away enough stuff hopefully the other hobbyests who benefit from this mild generosity willl do the same thing, and help out some one who is beggining the same way. eventually karma may m,ake its rounds and some one will throw in something to me (its already happened more than once) but I dont do it expecting something in return. often I throw in freebies when I sell stuff online just to sweeten the deal, I mean who doesnt like opening a box and finding more than you asked/paid for?
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2605858
me too, I am guilty of just giving away corals, I have a friend, she loves mushrooms, I dont like them, she bought two off me now she gets the rest for free. if I have to go through the bother of packing and shipping I chanrge for them same with kenya tree, but generally I just give them away if some one is local and is willing to come get them.
its a way of "paying it forward" if you will. if I give away enough stuff hopefully the other hobbyests who benefit from this mild generosity willl do the same thing, and help out some one who is beggining the same way. eventually karma may m,ake its rounds and some one will throw in something to me (its already happened more than once) but I dont do it expecting something in return. often I throw in freebies when I sell stuff online just to sweeten the deal, I mean who doesnt like opening a box and finding more than you asked/paid for?
 

zeke92

Active Member
not enough people care about saving reefs. same goes with pollution. they either think it's natural, a lie, or just don't care. you could tell alot of people that reefs are dying from pollution, the changing ocean temperatures from global wamring (or climate change seems to be the new trend) and only half or less would care. and then only a fourth or less would try to do anything about it.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2609069
not enough people care about saving reefs. same goes with pollution. they either think it's natural, a lie, or just don't care. you could tell alot of people that reefs are dying from pollution, the changing ocean temperatures from global wamring (or climate change seems to be the new trend) and only half or less would care. and then only a fourth or less would try to do anything about it.
but it feels so good to act and say you care.
behind close doors no one knows
 
S

saltycrab

Guest
The way I look at is if I am trading then I will not focus so much on if I am coming out ahead or what ever. I just want to be happy with what I got and want the other person just as happy. This is why I prefer to trade. When money comes into the equation as far as selling thing it gets more complicated. If I only have a few of a nice item I will charge more because to me it is not worth parting with unless the money is worth it. If I have numerous frags of the same item then I will sell them cheap say 1/2 what I could get for it. Plus when I send out stuff I make sure the person gets extra. Anyways I really don't think the SW hobby has any significant impact on reefs. Commercial fishing for food, pollution, and climate change are the real problems and there is little or nothing we as a group can do about it. The only thing I do to try and save the reefs is try to spread my love of them to others and not patronize LFS that obviously ---- the reefs. There is one locally that is well known for its poaching.
 

dplantz

Member
I would support this too, though your point about only easily breedable or fragable animals in the market would be difficult to overcome. I think that instead of trying to breed them in tanks they should like have a large plexglass wall built around part of the ocean or a reef and let the fish produce on their own. To save the reef we must not only incourage the buying of aquacultureed frags but also look at our enviormental impacts that are destroying the reefs. I did a Dupont essay on this and the main factors are global warming, pollution (silt ect), UV killing corals from overexposure due to ozone being depleted. There are tons of ways we can slow this down and save the reefs. Thats my 2 cents anyway. Great discusion topic, brings out awarness and is though provoking.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by dplantz
http:///forum/post/2625627
I would support this too, though your point about only easily breedable or fragable animals in the market would be difficult to overcome. I think that instead of trying to breed them in tanks they should like have a large plexglass wall built around part of the ocean or a reef and let the fish produce on their own. To save the reef we must not only incourage the buying of aquacultureed frags but also look at our enviormental impacts that are destroying the reefs. I did a Dupont essay on this and the main factors are global warming, pollution (silt ect), UV killing corals from overexposure due to ozone being depleted. There are tons of ways we can slow this down and save the reefs. Thats my 2 cents anyway. Great discusion topic, brings out awarness and is though provoking.

Logistically your idea of Plexiglas walls in the ocean would not work but it‘s an idea. There is a couple of wholesale collectors that do use and make maraiculture/aquaculture frags. Instead of fragging off a live reef they simple take broken piece s and frag them. Or they will take a clipping and secure it in the ocean and let it grow and use it simply as a fragging parent colony. Coral collectors simple return the frags back into the ocean on frag trays and sit them on nets to mature over time in the ocean. Leaving natural reefs alone to grow.
Most coral collectors simply chop off colonies and sell them to wholesalers and then to your LFS.
Again with this whole thread I think the meaning of what I was getting lost in translation.
Why does a person gets into a hobby? Because they like the hobby. Ok, so What’s the reward? To see the hobby complete and do what ever it is its supposed to do.
In our case, its to get our coral to grow and to keep a healthy tank.
On of the perks with coral keeping is that coral grow. As keepers we know that “X” amount of space is given/needed for each coral, so no corals fight and destroy another coral.
As coral grow they out grow their space and we need to prune/clip/frag “X” coral.
That’s what the hobby is about. So you got some clippings sure sell them off and help flood the market with “X” coral that’s helping the hobby.
Getting in this hobby with the idea of fast easy money is not really getting into the hobby and a bad idea at that, its getting into the business a different side of the hobby.
When some says “yeah the going rate is 50 bucks per polyp but I’ll take 45 bucks is a little business minded, not hobbyist to hobbyist and not helping to preserve anything.
 

deltablack22

Active Member
I would rather pour battery acid in my eyes than read through this thread again. It's like bunch of rapists cheering at a feminist rally. Memo to everyone in here, your all part of the problem. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for living the American dream and putting whatever you want in the "glass box" in your living room just because you can; But please step down off of your conservation soapbox and reassess the situation before acting like you dont have blood on your hands.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
http:///forum/post/2641750
I would rather pour battery acid in my eyes than read through this thread again. It's like bunch of rapists cheering at a feminist rally. Memo to everyone in here, your all part of the problem. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for living the American dream and putting whatever you want in the "glass box" in your living room just because you can; But please step down off of your conservation soapbox and reassess the situation before acting like you dont have blood on your hands.

i don't think anyone was on a soapbox. You will read this thread and you will reply.
 

deltablack22

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2642507
i don't think anyone was on a soapbox. You will read this thread and you will reply.

Maybe I should've been a little more clear. Even though my post was right after yours, I was speaking generally on the atmosphere of this thread and not at anyone in particular...
(Sorry for bumping this thread again)
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
http:///forum/post/2642853
Maybe I should've been a little more clear. Even though my post was right after yours, I was speaking generally on the atmosphere of this thread and not at anyone in particular...
(Sorry for bumping this thread again)
i knew you would reply
 
Top