Wet dry/ sump diagram help!!!
- Thread starter reeferdc
- Start date
jasenhicks
Member
Most people say that 10X the capacity of the tank is the gph flow rate required. I tend to agree, with the need for current in a tank for fish happiness, and for general well being of other inhabitants and filtration needs its important to get sufficient flow. Plus you wont really get all 800 gph from an overflow box, may get close but not all of it.
jasenhicks
Member
Id say go with the 800gph. Thats the best idea.
squidd
Active Member
First I'd like to start with this C&P on Flow ...
*******************************************
My thoughts on Turnover/Suggested turnover rates...
FOWLR : (Fish Only with Live Rock) 10X to 15X Depending on species, some like Box fish/Cow fish need slower water or "some" protected areas, others like Tangs and most Aggressive do better (filtration wise) with more flow due to high waste load.
Reef, Softies only: 10X to 15X Good rate for filtration, but not too fast as some "branching" softies won't open fully if blown around too much...
Reef, Softie and LPS: 15X to 20X with "protected" areas for branching softies (see above)
Reef, LPS: 20X to 25X Excellent flow for filtration and keeping deitrus suspended and movement of micro flora and Fauna food supply as well as "waste" and slime removal from coral bedding areas...
Reef LPS and SPS: 20X to 30X More flow is beneficial to SPS, but some "protected areas" are needed for "pillowy" inflating LPS as they too do not appreciate being blown around.
Reef, SPS: 25X and up, 30X is good, more is better: Most SPS do well in high flow situations, with a combination of random and linear flow patterns (flow control, wave and surge action, mix it up) Benefit to filtration, deitrus suspension, Oxygenation, waste and aelopathy removal and micro flora and fauna feeding...
This is a "General" recommendation for "Total" turnover which is a combination of sump return and supplemental circulation devices "IN" the tank (power heads/closed loop etc...) and with any species there will be exceptions to the rule (some softies are OK in high flow, some SPS don't like getting blasted)
Much of your success and failure with these projected flow rates will come from Rock layout and flow Output direction...Due to varying Rock scape, tank size/shape, and circulation layout (rock/tank wall deflection, caves, competing/canceling effect of flow movement) You may find you need higher or lower "Pump numbers" to get the desired "flow effect" in your tank, sometimes a rearranging of rock scape or redirecting power heads is all it takes, sometimes you'll need to "UP" the pumping capacity...
******************************************************
So for your 75 FO tank, the 10X to 15X should be good , somewhere between 750 and 1125 gph...800 is a good number to start with...
Now to get that, you don't have to push it all thru your overflow and sump...In fact you might be better off if you ran a lessor amount thru the sump, (concidering the size limitations you have) and get the rest for some form of "supplemental" circulation....Maybe some power heads or a closed loop system...
That way you could have flow originating from several points rather than just one (sump return) and have more options in flow direction...
Just off the top of my head I'd suggest a "standard" (and easy to find) 600gph HOB overflow, "U" tube not "box" type and a Mag 7 or similar for the return pump...that should give you 450 t0 500 gph "to" the tank, enough to keep your sump mounted skimmer effecient and not overwhelm a 10-15 gallon sump with too quick a flow rate (bubbles)...
Then add a pair of Maxi Jet 900 for an additional 450 or so gph and place them lower in the tank to promote deitrus suspension and oxygen exchange.
*******************************************
My thoughts on Turnover/Suggested turnover rates...
FOWLR : (Fish Only with Live Rock) 10X to 15X Depending on species, some like Box fish/Cow fish need slower water or "some" protected areas, others like Tangs and most Aggressive do better (filtration wise) with more flow due to high waste load.
Reef, Softies only: 10X to 15X Good rate for filtration, but not too fast as some "branching" softies won't open fully if blown around too much...
Reef, Softie and LPS: 15X to 20X with "protected" areas for branching softies (see above)
Reef, LPS: 20X to 25X Excellent flow for filtration and keeping deitrus suspended and movement of micro flora and Fauna food supply as well as "waste" and slime removal from coral bedding areas...
Reef LPS and SPS: 20X to 30X More flow is beneficial to SPS, but some "protected areas" are needed for "pillowy" inflating LPS as they too do not appreciate being blown around.
Reef, SPS: 25X and up, 30X is good, more is better: Most SPS do well in high flow situations, with a combination of random and linear flow patterns (flow control, wave and surge action, mix it up) Benefit to filtration, deitrus suspension, Oxygenation, waste and aelopathy removal and micro flora and fauna feeding...
This is a "General" recommendation for "Total" turnover which is a combination of sump return and supplemental circulation devices "IN" the tank (power heads/closed loop etc...) and with any species there will be exceptions to the rule (some softies are OK in high flow, some SPS don't like getting blasted)
Much of your success and failure with these projected flow rates will come from Rock layout and flow Output direction...Due to varying Rock scape, tank size/shape, and circulation layout (rock/tank wall deflection, caves, competing/canceling effect of flow movement) You may find you need higher or lower "Pump numbers" to get the desired "flow effect" in your tank, sometimes a rearranging of rock scape or redirecting power heads is all it takes, sometimes you'll need to "UP" the pumping capacity...
******************************************************
So for your 75 FO tank, the 10X to 15X should be good , somewhere between 750 and 1125 gph...800 is a good number to start with...
Now to get that, you don't have to push it all thru your overflow and sump...In fact you might be better off if you ran a lessor amount thru the sump, (concidering the size limitations you have) and get the rest for some form of "supplemental" circulation....Maybe some power heads or a closed loop system...
That way you could have flow originating from several points rather than just one (sump return) and have more options in flow direction...
Just off the top of my head I'd suggest a "standard" (and easy to find) 600gph HOB overflow, "U" tube not "box" type and a Mag 7 or similar for the return pump...that should give you 450 t0 500 gph "to" the tank, enough to keep your sump mounted skimmer effecient and not overwhelm a 10-15 gallon sump with too quick a flow rate (bubbles)...
Then add a pair of Maxi Jet 900 for an additional 450 or so gph and place them lower in the tank to promote deitrus suspension and oxygen exchange.
squidd
Active Member
You talking about sliding it over the "barbed" end ...?
If so and the tubing is the correct size, or darn close,I usually heat the end of the tubing with either a cigarette lighter, heat gun or running under Very Hot water to "soften" it...
Then it should stretch and go over the barbs...
If so and the tubing is the correct size, or darn close,I usually heat the end of the tubing with either a cigarette lighter, heat gun or running under Very Hot water to "soften" it...
Then it should stretch and go over the barbs...
V
vince-1961
Guest
Squidd,
I was reading your lengthy post on flow rates above and would like to ask if you approve of my (new yet old) set up. It was a mature tank when I got it, but I re-did a lot of it so now what I have is:
220 g DT, 65 g sump which I keep 2/5's or 1/2 full, so total water volume is about $250 gallons. Main pump causes the water drain from the DT at a rate of approx. 900 to 1,000 gph. The return of water to the DT gets divvied up into four spouts. Lastly, I mounted just one Koralia Model 4 (the big one) water fan on a side wall near the top and aimed it at the bottom center of the DT.
I just so happen to own another external pump, a submersible Tsurumi 50PN2.25 S, which I acquired a few years back for a freshwater Koi pond. It has a maximum head of 30 feet and max flow rate of 3,600 gph. It would not be too difficult for me to re-plumb the system. (Although the manual does not recommends using a different model in saltwater applications, I have no reservations in using it.) I feared that the Tsurumi pump might be more than than my drains can handle, even after Tee'ing off a protein skimmer and maybe even various other devices. My LFS says that the built-in drains on a 220g All-Glass aquarium is only 600 gph per drain, or 1,200 gph total.
I have hard SPS corals, LR and fish.
I was reading your lengthy post on flow rates above and would like to ask if you approve of my (new yet old) set up. It was a mature tank when I got it, but I re-did a lot of it so now what I have is:
220 g DT, 65 g sump which I keep 2/5's or 1/2 full, so total water volume is about $250 gallons. Main pump causes the water drain from the DT at a rate of approx. 900 to 1,000 gph. The return of water to the DT gets divvied up into four spouts. Lastly, I mounted just one Koralia Model 4 (the big one) water fan on a side wall near the top and aimed it at the bottom center of the DT.
I just so happen to own another external pump, a submersible Tsurumi 50PN2.25 S, which I acquired a few years back for a freshwater Koi pond. It has a maximum head of 30 feet and max flow rate of 3,600 gph. It would not be too difficult for me to re-plumb the system. (Although the manual does not recommends using a different model in saltwater applications, I have no reservations in using it.) I feared that the Tsurumi pump might be more than than my drains can handle, even after Tee'ing off a protein skimmer and maybe even various other devices. My LFS says that the built-in drains on a 220g All-Glass aquarium is only 600 gph per drain, or 1,200 gph total.
I have hard SPS corals, LR and fish.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Originally Posted by vince-1961
http:///forum/post/2757582
Squidd,
I was reading your lengthy post on flow rates above and would like to ask if you approve of my (new yet old) set up. It was a mature tank when I got it, but I re-did a lot of it so now what I have is:
220 g DT, 65 g sump which I keep 2/5's or 1/2 full, so total water volume is about $250 gallons. Main pump causes the water drain from the DT at a rate of approx. 900 to 1,000 gph. The return of water to the DT gets divvied up into four spouts. Lastly, I mounted just one Koralia Model 4 (the big one) water fan on a side wall near the top and aimed it at the bottom center of the DT.
I just so happen to own another external pump, a submersible Tsurumi 50PN2.25 S, which I acquired a few years back for a freshwater Koi pond. It has a maximum head of 30 feet and max flow rate of 3,600 gph. It would not be too difficult for me to re-plumb the system. (Although the manual does not recommends using a different model in saltwater applications, I have no reservations in using it.) I feared that the Tsurumi pump might be more than than my drains can handle, even after Tee'ing off a protein skimmer and maybe even various other devices. My LFS says that the built-in drains on a 220g All-Glass aquarium is only 600 gph per drain, or 1,200 gph total.
I have hard SPS corals, LR and fish.
I ain't Squid, but I can type.
I myself would not use a pump I couldn't verify if it were SW safe. Also, you would be way over running your drains if the do indeed only constitute 600 gph each. Of course you could split the return plumbing, throw in a couple BV's and re-divert the flow back through your fuge/sump and or other plumbed in equipment. But I feel it is likely to still be way over kill. Also, adding more flow to that is very important IMO. I have 2, 700 gph return pumps, 3 koralia 4's and a maxijet 1200 modd on my 135. And I'm looking for some way to get more. Realize that's likely 40-50 time turnover there.
A closed loop with a Oceans Motions 8 way would be my recommendation. I'm not sure what the max flow is on the OM, but I'm pretty sure you could do like 3500 gph though it pretty well. Do some googling.
BTW...You do realize this was a 3 year old, dead thread, before you resurrected it.
http:///forum/post/2757582
Squidd,
I was reading your lengthy post on flow rates above and would like to ask if you approve of my (new yet old) set up. It was a mature tank when I got it, but I re-did a lot of it so now what I have is:
220 g DT, 65 g sump which I keep 2/5's or 1/2 full, so total water volume is about $250 gallons. Main pump causes the water drain from the DT at a rate of approx. 900 to 1,000 gph. The return of water to the DT gets divvied up into four spouts. Lastly, I mounted just one Koralia Model 4 (the big one) water fan on a side wall near the top and aimed it at the bottom center of the DT.
I just so happen to own another external pump, a submersible Tsurumi 50PN2.25 S, which I acquired a few years back for a freshwater Koi pond. It has a maximum head of 30 feet and max flow rate of 3,600 gph. It would not be too difficult for me to re-plumb the system. (Although the manual does not recommends using a different model in saltwater applications, I have no reservations in using it.) I feared that the Tsurumi pump might be more than than my drains can handle, even after Tee'ing off a protein skimmer and maybe even various other devices. My LFS says that the built-in drains on a 220g All-Glass aquarium is only 600 gph per drain, or 1,200 gph total.
I have hard SPS corals, LR and fish.
I ain't Squid, but I can type.
A closed loop with a Oceans Motions 8 way would be my recommendation. I'm not sure what the max flow is on the OM, but I'm pretty sure you could do like 3500 gph though it pretty well. Do some googling.
BTW...You do realize this was a 3 year old, dead thread, before you resurrected it.
V
vince-1961
Guest
Hi Doc.
First question: What is "A closed loop with a Oceans Motions 8 way "?
First question: What is "A closed loop with a Oceans Motions 8 way "?
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Not to be rude to you, but lets start a new thread for your needs. OK?
This way, any future readers wont have to wade through all this to get to what we discuss. Would that be OK?
Meanwhile google those terms Oceans motions, and closed loop. You will find that an Oceans motions is a device that goes in-line in a plumbing pipe that distributes flow to an aquarium. It has up to 8 different ports that come out of it and a small motor which turns a valve and causes the current surge through it at different times. Got it?
Good..
Now a closed loop is a type of plumbing system used to generate flow in an aquarium while having the pump in a location outside of the aquarium. The conduit is closed in that there is no means for it to drain onto the floor, nor does any of the piping have any openings on it outside of the aquarium.
You would put an O.M. in line on a closed loop. Got it?
Meanwhile google those terms Oceans motions, and closed loop. You will find that an Oceans motions is a device that goes in-line in a plumbing pipe that distributes flow to an aquarium. It has up to 8 different ports that come out of it and a small motor which turns a valve and causes the current surge through it at different times. Got it?
Now a closed loop is a type of plumbing system used to generate flow in an aquarium while having the pump in a location outside of the aquarium. The conduit is closed in that there is no means for it to drain onto the floor, nor does any of the piping have any openings on it outside of the aquarium.
You would put an O.M. in line on a closed loop. Got it?