what is best way to dose Alk supplements?

[92protruck]

I switched to TM Pro. Big mistake. Alk, as many have said, is dangerously low. My tank is Ca 415 Alk 1.94 Mg 1260 pH range 7.85 - 8.20 Salt 35 ppt. I think I should boost up the Alk until I run out of this salt and switch over. I am hoping to avoid daily additives, that was the point of switching salts in the first place. Can I add baking soda or something to auto-topoff or add it to water changes? If so, how much? Or is a daily suppliment like Seachem Reef Carbonate the best way to go? Thanks for any input.

 

[earlybird]

Search baking soda. Good way to raise alk.

 

[92protruck]

yes, I always use the search feature first. I found many threads on baking soda but can't seem to find the right one. I see where 1 tsp per 50 gal will raise alk and many other formulas but I think they are adding the soda mixed in a glass of water at one time to the tank but I'm not sure. Can I add some amount to top-off or water change or must I add it to the tank every day?

 

[frankthetank]

I think you can add it to your top-off or water change.

 

[teen]

kalkwasser will raise your alk and calcium. maybe start dripping that?

 

[earlybird]

This might help. From CHEMISTRY AND THE AQUARIUM by RANDY HOLMES-FARLEY
Baking Soda
To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).
Washing Soda
To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require 10 grams of washing soda (sodium carbonate). Since a level teaspoon of washing soda weighs just over 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.6 meq/L (~1.7 dKH).
One special note about washing soda: Apparently some Canadian brands of washing soda contain surfactants. VIP brand, in particular, contains them and a reef keeper using them on my advice turned his tank into a bubble bath. On questioning, the manufacturer did indicate that a surfactant is present. The same reef keeper says the local Arm & Hammer brand in Canada smells strongly of perfume. I’d avoid perfumed brands, if possible. My Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda purchased in the US apparently contains no significant surfactants, and is not perfumed. Nevertheless, anyone using washing soda for the first time ought to put some in water and stir it around to see if soapy bubbles form. If so, I’d suggest finding another brand.
Many commercial alkalinity supplements will also be fine for this purpose, as long as no significant calcium is added. In general, I don’t prefer those that contain substantial borate. The alkalinity component of the two-part calcium and alkalinity additive systems would be OK. You CANNOT use limewater or a calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactor to correct this problem. Any of the balanced calcium and alkalinity additive systems will move you parallel to the line at the left edge of the zone, while you want to move over to it, and cross it.
If alkalinity is more than 4 meq/L (11 dKH; an uncommon situation), then you can safely either do nothing until it drops and you need to add more alkalinity, and treat it as suggested in the previous two paragraphs, or you can add some alkalinity immediately, move into zone 1, and then just let it drop on its own.

 

[92protruck]

Trust me, I read all of Randy's articles. He says 1 tsp of soda per 50 gal will raise alk .4 mg/l. Perfect, now do I add that 1 tsp to the sump every day until desired level is reached then experiment around with how much to add after that to maintain desired level, can I add that tsp to my 5 gal auto topoff which will take 5 days to all get into the tank, can I add that 1 tsp to the 10 gal water change I do every week? See my point? How much and how often do you add the baking soda and/or alk suppliment? I have about 80 gal total system and want to raise and maintain alk from 1.94 mg/l to maybe 3.0?
Surely, somebody on here has to add alk and has a system for this.

 

[bang guy]

First, don't add baking soda to your water change water, ever.
Second, you use an auto topoff, that's perfect! If it were me I would add 5 teaspoons of Baking soda to the 5 gallon topoff container. The idea is to raise ALK to your desired level over about 5 days to a week.
I can't advise you on maintenance because I don't know your consumption rate.

 

[92protruck]

Thank you Bang Guy. That is exactly what I was looking for. I assume you are ok with Baking soda in my case. I believe I have seen you advise against baking soda in favor of commercially prepared Alk suppliments for some people. I understand as far as consumption and maintaining the levels go. With IO salt I was dosing B-Ionic at 20 ml per day each. Wish I hadn't changed. I was thinking the TM Pro would eliminate any further dosing but apparently not for me. Thanks again.

 

[andreyv]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
First, don't add baking soda to your water change water, ever.
Bang:
any particular reason for not adding buffer to wc water?
Newly mixed 10g of Oceanic shows 490ppm of CA and 8dKh.
I read somewhere that it’s OK to add buffer to wc to bump up Alk.
What about CA?
Newly mixed 10g of Reef Crystals shows 375ppm of CA and 10dKh.
Is it OK to add liquid CA to bump up CA?
Interesting in your opinion. Thanks.

 

[aztec reef]

yeah, cause the problem is not the new water, the problem is in the tank. if you add buffer/chemicals to newly made water you might as well not do the water change..

 

[andreyv]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
yeah, cause the problem is not the new water, the problem is in the tank. if you add buffer/chemicals to newly made water you might as well not do the water change..
375ppm CA (which I see as kind of on a low side /problem/) is in the new water, not in the tank. The same goes for low Alk of Oceanic.. :notsure:
Would you care to share experience with newb.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by AndreyV
375ppm CA (which I see as kind of on a low side /problem/) is in the new water, not in the tank. The same goes for low Alk of Oceanic.. :notsure:
Would you care to share experience with newb.

the point of a water change is to replenish trace elements, remove excess nutrients, and so many other things. that keep water quality optimal.
to do this all you need is water and salt.. cuz you want the highest quality/purity of new water.. if you add anything to that water it becomes not pure anymore..that's why you do dose additives/buffers to tank/sump..

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by AndreyV
Bang:
any particular reason for not adding buffer to wc water?
Newly mixed 10g of Oceanic shows 490ppm of CA and 8dKh.
I read somewhere that it’s OK to add buffer to wc to bump up Alk.
What about CA?
Newly mixed 10g of Reef Crystals shows 375ppm of CA and 10dKh.
Is it OK to add liquid CA to bump up CA?
Interesting in your opinion. Thanks.
I congratulate you for testing your water change saltwater. That's a very good practice, especially for a new bucket of salt. It will help you understand what your aquarium needs better.
The higher the Calcium and Alkalinity in new saltwater is the greater the chance that it will precipitate trace elements. I personally prefer my new water to be low in ALK and Calcium to insure I get a full dose of Magnesium, Strontium, etc.
A healthy reef tank required dosing of Calcium and Carbonate (ALK) anyway. I prefer to have as much control over the dosage as possible. You may want something different for various reasons but it is almost always a bad idea to add a buffer to new saltwater.
A lot of hobbiests think they want a lot of Calcium and Alkalinity in their new water. They mistakenly believe this can eliminate the need for dosing. I'll explain why this isn't true.
Lets use a 100 gallon thriving reef tank as an example where a 20% water change is done every other week. We want to buy a salt mix that will provide all the Alkalinity and Calcium we need through water changes alone or at least add a "buffer" to the mix to get at least ALK correct in the tank. A healthy coral load will typically deplete Calcium at a rate of about 5ppm per day, your results may be more or less but 5ppm is very reasonable.
Let's start with Calcium at 450 and ALK at 3.5Meq/L (9.8dKH).
After 2 weeks Calcium will have dropped 70ppm (14 X 5ppm). This means that Alkalinity will have dropped about 1.5Meq/L. Calcium is not 380ppm and Alkalinity is now 2.0Meq/L(5.6dKH). We want a saltmix + "Buffer" that will raise Calcium and Carbonate back to where it was with a 20% water change.
If the saltmix mixes at 450ppm Calcium and we add buffer to raise ALK to 3.5Meq that would only raise the Calcium in the tank to about 395ppm so obviously we need more calcium in the mix. To raise the Ca in the tank back to 450ppm we actually need the new saltwater to be at about 730ppm. To replenish ALK we need to bump up the new saltwater to 9.5Meq/L (26.6dKH).
I can assure you that adding that much buffer will cause a massive precipitation event with the new saltwater. The resulting water would be nearly useless.
My only point here is that the market is pushing hobbiests to use saltmix with higher and higher calcium levels. There really is no purpose in this because you have to dose the tank anyway. Why pay a premium for high Calcium salt when the difference means using 11ml of B-Ionic instead of 10ml and risk precipitation in the new mix?
So, Use the saltmix of your choice but dose your additives to the tank, not to the new saltwater. Using topoff to provide the dosing is fine but only dose one additive at a time through topoff.

 

[shogun323]

Wow Bang. I never looked at it that way. The makes perfect sense and it is simple logic!!!! I am picking up some B-Ionic today!!!!!

 

[andreyv]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Let's start with Calcium at 450 and ALK at 3.5Meq/L (9.8dKH).
After 2 weeks Calcium will have dropped 70ppm (14 X 5ppm). This means that Alkalinity will have dropped about 1.5Meq/L. Calcium is not 380ppm and Alkalinity is now 2.0Meq/L(5.6dKH). We want a saltmix + "Buffer" that will raise Calcium and Carbonate back to where it was with a 20% water change.
If the saltmix mixes at 450ppm Calcium and we add buffer to raise ALK to 3.5Meq that would only raise the Calcium in the tank to about 395ppm so obviously we need more calcium in the mix. To raise the Ca in the tank back to 450ppm we actually need the new saltwater to be at about 730ppm. To replenish ALK we need to bump up the new saltwater to 9.5Meq/L (26.6dKH).
I can assure you that adding that much buffer will cause a massive precipitation event with the new saltwater. The resulting water would be nearly useless.
My only point here is that the market is pushing hobbiests to use saltmix with higher and higher calcium levels. There really is no purpose in this because you have to dose the tank anyway. Why pay a premium for high Calcium salt when the difference means using 11ml of B-Ionic instead of 10ml and risk precipitation in the new mix?
Thanks for explanation.
I wasn’t actually looking to replenish calcium/alkalinity with water change.
That I do with B-ionic. I was looking to at least not reducing these levels with wc.
So I thought that making new water as close to tank parameters is OK.
Currently it is 410ppm and 9.1dKh.
But I see what you saying about precipitation – never thought about it.
Thanks again.

 

[kalied20]

I have been very successful with the two part solution. Once my tank was stable, I add about 1/4 cup of the CA and ALK mix each day. I have quite a few SPS's that consume about this much. (every tank is different though) The trick was is like was said earlier.....get the tank stable and see what it takes to keep it that way. The water changes should not be big enough to affect the tank drastically. If they did then the change wouldn't do any good anyways. I do a 10% change on my 90 gallon every two weeks to replenish keep all the trace elements in check. And dose only CA, ALK and a little DT's every now and then for the softies in the bottom.