What to do?? -- Help....

brimestone

New Member
Hey Guys, I'm new to this forum and relatively new with Saltwater fish aquarium ( kept freshwater fish for 5 years )
Here's the Tank Environment parameters.
26 Gallon Aqueon Bow Front
Eheim Canister Filter
CPR BAK PAK 2
Salinity: 1.023 ~ 1.024
Temp: (74)Fahrenheit
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm Updated to: 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Food: Missy Shrimp, Emerald Entree, Thera+A, Garlic Xtreme,
Please help.


 

bang guy

Moderator
This looks like an Ammonia issue but I'm confused as your ammonia is reading zero.
How did you cycle the tank and how long ago?
How many fish are in the tank and when did you add them?
The temp is a bit low but not low enough to cause this.
Immediately mix up some new saltwater and do a water change 12 hours later.
 

brimestone

New Member
Actually, Ammonia was sort of in between 0ppm and 0.25ppm, someone i choose to round down to zero.
Just did a quick test and it's definitely 0.25ppm.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
Welcome to the site...sorry about the problems
You didn't list any power heads...the wave is the life of the ocean, and your SW tank. Without water (surface) movement, there isn't enough oxygen. SW has less oxygen then freshwater. How much live rock do you have?
Get a clean container...and scoop some water, and let it waterfall back into the tank about 4 inches above the water to make it move...that will stir some oxygen ... it's what I did when we had the power out for 4 days, some fish died but most survived. You have to do it every hour ... If you have an air line (no stone) attach it to a rock so it goes down deep in the tank and breaks the surface with the bubbles. Get a Power head in there ASAP...
 

brimestone

New Member
I have a HOB CPR BAK PAK skimmer and that seems to do a good job on oxygenating.
I had a MarineHead 900 initially but it turned out to be too much for the tank i have to i point the return of my eHeim on the same direction of the CPR return pipe to create the motion..
 

brimestone

New Member
I forgot to mention that i still do have Diatoms on my Live Rock..
I may have failed the Cycling part of things ( following instructions from LFS ).
Am i still in the Ammonia stage of the Cycle?
Setup the Tank more than 2 months ago, setup live Rock and live sand. After about 2 weeks, my local fish shop said i could add a pair of Clown fish and 5 hermit crab.
After a complete week, we added 3 baby blue tang and within a day ( ~24 hours ) all my fish are dead. first sign of problem was ick on the baby tangs and within less than 8 hours, it killed everyone ( excluding hermit crab ) from the 1st sign of problem.
I went to the shop and they sold me "Natural" Ick attack to address the ick in the tank and no fish for an entire 3 weeks.
During the 2nd week of treatment/quarantine, Diatoms showed up, then on the 3rd week i visited the shop again. They said to get a couple of Clown and 2 cleaner shrimp for starters. Following that week, 2 Damsel, 1 dotted back, 1 gobby.
So complete rasters from a week ago.
2 Clown fish
2 Damsel
1 Dotted back
1 gobby
4 Hermy Crab
4 Cleaner Shrimp.
Here are the list of survivors as of this very moment.
1 Clown fish
3 Cleaner shrimp
4 Hermy Crab
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
After a complete week, we added 3 baby blue tang
Yeah, some stores will just let you do this.
I'm gonna say some stuff and it's not to make you feel bad. It's just my opinion on stocking saltwater tanks.
In my opinion a single Blue Tang requires six feet of swimming space. The current size of the Tang is irrelevant, these are open water swimming fish. They are very very active and require room to swim.
Adding three at once to a nano tank will become an immediate issue because the fish will be stressed from moving and the extra activity of these fish will cause everything else in the tank to also become stressed. In addition, adding three fish at once is going to overload your bacterial filtration and it will not be able to keep up with ammonia production from all of those fish.
It's your tank and you have every right to stock it as you see fit but I will advise on what I think will provide the best chance for success. My advice is a pair of Clownfish and two or three very small gobies like Clown Gobies and/or Neon Gobies, perhape a Barnacle Blenny. I really could not advise you to put more in a 26 gallon tank in good conscience. No Tangs!
Let your tank recover before you add anything more.
When you think you are ready to add another fish, wait an additional two weeks. Slowly start feeding your tank more food and see how it reacts to the added ammonia. Once you are feeding enough additional food to feed an additional fish and your bacteria can keep up with ammonia, go for it. But only add one fish unless they are a bonded pair.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by brimestone http:///t/395533/what-to-do-help#post_3521675
I have a HOB CPR BAK PAK skimmer and that seems to do a good job on oxygenating.
I had a MarineHead 900 initially but it turned out to be too much for the tank i have to i point the return of my eHeim on the same direction of the CPR return pipe to create the motion..
I'm not being mean...I really am trying to help you.
I have to say this... that skimmer is a pile of crap...I gave mine away, it only got 1/4th a cup of skim in a solid month, it's a waste of electricity. Regardless, it does not oxygenate the tank the way a power head will.
Your fish are suffocating...the little guy on the bottom of the tank is near death already...the poor clown is sucking air from the surface...or trying to. That is how fish act when they have ammonia problems, but the 0.25 reading means that the ammonia is not yet toxic enough to make the fish act so oxygen starved....so we have to look at another reason for the problem.
Obviously the method of oxygenating your tank is not working. Point your Eheim toward the surface and make it look like it's boiling... If the Back-pac has a direction control on the output tube...point it down into the tank to push the what little oxygen it offers deeper in the tank.
3 tangs...seriously??? What fish store told you that you could put 3 hippo tangs in a 26g tank? Are you sure the fish store is aware of your tank size? If they are
...then never, ever ask them for advice now or in the future....because they are idiots. 1 Hippo tang per 100g tank...in a 200g tank you can keep 2....in a 26g tank you can keep 0
Your very next purchase before you swap...replace the dead fish,or purchase another living organism for your tank....get this book. It will save you lots of money and heartache.

Here is a page, so you can see the info it offers.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
...Ich...to get rid of the parasite you need to leave your tank without fish for 8 weeks, or every new fish will be exposed and in danger. New fish are stressed, and that places them as prime targets for the parasite to kill them. Also the parasite affects the fish' gills, the cleaner shrimp will feed on those and help the fish. You have a heap of problems out of the gate, don't be discouraged...we all make our mistakes. This site is full of folks that can help you get things going in the right direction...but you have to take the advice, or it's no help at all.
 

kiefers

Active Member
I believe Ms. Flower and Bang covered this to the T.
Sometimes reading someones posts comes off harsh but it is more shock and awe.
So, some words of advice from me.
1) never add more than 1 fish, two if there small to the tank at once. You will get an ammonia spike and there is nothing any skimmer will do to aide in this.
2) You should really try and get a small quarintene tank cycled and ready for new arrivals. You never know what parasites or bacteria they are bringing with them. And....... when you have a sick fish or something like this arises, you have some where to put them and treat them.
3) Never ever ever trust someone from a petstore when it comes to your fish cage. what helps me remember this is.... imagine you live in your bathroom. How many people can you fit in there for the rest of your life. Now with that said, until you research these critters yourself and later find someone that knows what they are talking about, then yes you can trust them. I've personally seen petstore sell people tanks, sand water, salt mixes, fish and corals in one sale and told the customer "they will be fine" ya, petstores get commission, they could careless about your new fish pets.
4) Keep it simple. For your size tank, I would say go out and get a good little skimmer (tunz115 is really good in my opinion), and do your water changes once a week, roughly 10%. So you have a 26 gallon tank....... hmmmmm I personally would do 5 gallons a week, or 3 galllons the least.
5) Allways keep good new saltwater handy for something like this for water changes.
Good luck.
 

brimestone

New Member
Actually i had a MaxiJet 900 and i removed it a while back.. seems too powerful for me tank... not sure...
The LHS sold me the tank so they know.. I asked to buy 1 blue baby tang and he actually said to get all 3 because he is giving me a deal for returning customer.
Anyhow, thats all history and onwards and upwards. I added the Power head again and point the Canister return to the surface...
Thanks for the heads up. Thanks for all the information, i really appreciate it.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
It's a small tank...a smaller power head would work. maxijets shoot a jet stream of water. The newer Koralia types have a magnet so it stays put, and instead of a jet stream, it crates a wider path and acts more like a wave.....They have them for nano tanks. If the one you have is too strong, a pump and two airlines (no stone) will work just as well, and maybe better. Seahorses have air lines because power heads sometimes are too strong. Attach the line to a rock via a rubberband. That will push the water from the bottom to the top, and move the surface for better gas exchange. Salt creep unfortunately is inevitable if you go that route.
Concerning that fish store....Those people want to sell you anything they can. Don't get advice from them anymore...get those books I posted about. You can get most anything on-line, and a 14 day guarantee to boot. Check here first concerning equipment or anything you think you need...that way if you do go to that fish store you will know what you want before hand, and not be tricked anymore. It's just my opinion...but unless they are the only store around...they wouldn't get any more business at all from me, maybe they will learn their lesson.
Sadly you now have a tank infected with the ich parasite. SIGH...you need a 10g quarantine tank to move your surviving fish to for 8 weeks...then look on this site at the top of the disease section on doing HYPO. You absolutely must have a refractometer to do hypo. An Hydrometer is not accurate enough. It's the best way to deal with the parasite.
Oh, and do have some ready mixed saltwater...If the PH you have is too strong and you can't use it in the tank...use it to churn your new mixed saltwater for 12 to 24 hours before you use it. If you get an ammonia spike do a water change. Also...what did you fill your tank with? Reverse osmosis water...or...tap water?
 

brimestone

New Member
Reverse osmosis water...or...tap water?
> Tap water via a Brita Filter and an API stresscoat+.
You need a 10g quarantine tank to move your surviving fish to for 8 weeks
> I do have a 10g tank but its empty ( no live rock, no live sand and Not cycled. ). I set it up to keep Salt water for my water change.
Then look on this site at the top of the disease section on doing HYPO
> The shop sold me this Kordon Ich Attack 100% Natural ich Treatment. Will this do?
It's a small tank...a smaller power head would work. maxijets shoot a jet stream of water
> Last night, i put the Maxi-jet Pro 900 again. I set it up as Circulation mode. Right off the batt, my gut filling says its too strong. Sure enough, i woke up looking at my Clown Fish with ich all over his body. Poor guy prolly had to swim all night just to stay on one spot. BTW: the store sold me the power head "Rated for my tank size" they said. Now, i turned it off, and the protein skimmer and started the Kordon Ich medication. I'm not sure if my Clown will survive this tragedy which i'm totally to blame for.
This is all frustrating and makes me want to milk someones neck ( breaking their windpipe while doing it ) at that Shop.

If i find my self with an empty tank, i'll swap this tank for something between 55 and 75 gal tank. Just need to do some load calculation on the floor, make sure it wont crack or something...
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by brimestone http:///t/395533/what-to-do-help#post_3521721
Reverse osmosis water...or...tap water?
> Tap water via a Brita Filter and an API stresscoat+.
You need a 10g quarantine tank to move your surviving fish to for 8 weeks
> I do have a 10g tank but its empty ( no live rock, no live sand and Not cycled. ). I set it up to keep Salt water for my water change.
Then look on this site at the top of the disease section on doing HYPO
> The shop sold me this Kordon Ich Attack 100% Natural ich Treatment. Will this do?
It's a small tank...a smaller power head would work. maxijets shoot a jet stream of water
> Last night, i put the Maxi-jet Pro 900 again. I set it up as Circulation mode. Right off the batt, my gut filling says its too strong. Sure enough, i woke up looking at my Clown Fish with ich all over his body. Poor guy prolly had to swim all night just to stay on one spot. BTW: the store sold me the power head "Rated for my tank size" they said. Now, i turned it off, and the protein skimmer and started the Kordon Ich medication. I'm not sure if my Clown will survive this tragedy which i'm totally to blame for.
This is all frustrating and makes me want to milk someones neck ( breaking their windpipe while doing it ) at that Shop.

If i find my self with an empty tank, i'll swap this tank for something between 55 and 75 gal tank. Just need to do some load calculation on the floor, make sure it wont crack or something...
Hi,
The Brita is better then just straight tap water...but it isn't reverse osmosis water....you still have the fluoride treatment, and a bunch of other chemicals the city uses to clean your drinking water. At Walmart the refill station has a 5 stage unit of filters that is called reverses osmoses water...and they charge about 37 cents a gallon here by me. I used to fill my 5g jugs and use that to mix my saltwater, and for top offs. water is the main thing in your tank to keep your fish...always get the best...SW fish are too expensive to not make water your #1 priority.
RO water is pure. The only chemicals in it, are the ones you put in it via your salt mix. This makes for the best water quality for your SW critters. Some people use RO/DI (but people shouldn't drink that water) but an RO unit only costs about $150.00 and it makes for your drinking water, cooking, and an unlimited supply for your fish tank. I have a bubbler in my living room where I place a 3g jug for nice cold drinking water, and very hot water for tea. My 5 stage RO unit is attached to a small faucet on the kitchen sink (was meant for hand soap or something) a 3g holding tank is under the sink. I have a 90g and 56g tank, and I have plenty of top off water at all times. I do use a 37g plastic garbage can (marked "fish only") that has a power head in it, to make my saltwater for water changes.
The power head did not give your fish ich...it may have stressed it, but at least it can breath now. The ich is a parasite living in your tank. As long as your tank has a fish in it, you won't get rid of the ich. Never treat your display tank, always use a separate hospital tank to treat all of your fish. I agree the PH is too strong, in such a tiny tank, the air line would work (super cheap) and they do make PHs that are made for nano tanks.
In SW, the smaller the tank, the harder it is to keep. A 75g would be the perfect starter tank. A 55g is very narrow, but either one will be much easier then your little 29g. (keep the 29g as your hospital/quarantine tank) If you can afford to upgrade...no reason in the world to not start right now. True that SW tanks are heavy, so I always had a friend of mine do a check on the condition of the floor beams to make sure I had no problems...On one house I owned, I did shore up the floor from the basement, but mostly for my piece of mind. Being level is very important.

Just stay on this site and we will help you every step of the way. Every one of us have had our beginning growing pains...some worse them others. The constant lesson taught in the school of hard knocks is to not ask advice from the fish store folks for anything. The best thing I have found to do is to get info here, and go to the store/or on-line knowing what you want or need.
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by brimestone http:///t/395533/what-to-do-help#post_3521721
Reverse osmosis water...or...tap water?
> Tap water via a Brita Filter and an API stresscoat+.
You need a 10g quarantine tank to move your surviving fish to for 8 weeks
> I do have a 10g tank but its empty ( no live rock, no live sand and Not cycled. ). I set it up to keep Salt water for my water change.
Then look on this site at the top of the disease section on doing HYPO
> The shop sold me this Kordon Ich Attack 100% Natural ich Treatment. Will this do?
It's a small tank...a smaller power head would work. maxijets shoot a jet stream of water
> Last night, i put the Maxi-jet Pro 900 again. I set it up as Circulation mode. Right off the batt, my gut filling says its too strong. Sure enough, i woke up looking at my Clown Fish with ich all over his body. Poor guy prolly had to swim all night just to stay on one spot. BTW: the store sold me the power head "Rated for my tank size" they said. Now, i turned it off, and the protein skimmer and started the Kordon Ich medication. I'm not sure if my Clown will survive this tragedy which i'm totally to blame for.
This is all frustrating and makes me want to milk someones neck ( breaking their windpipe while doing it ) at that Shop.

If i find my self with an empty tank, i'll swap this tank for something between 55 and 75 gal tank. Just need to do some load calculation on the floor, make sure it wont crack or something...

Weird... The pic did not show up until I "quoted" your last post. But the pic helps...
The Maxi-jet Power Head you have is the newer style that can be converted into a koralia style PH. That is a good thing. It may seem like it is too powerful, but you fish will be just fine (well, they would be if not for the Ich).
You have quite the issues going on here. The Ich meds that the LFS sold you is garbage. The only two ways to really treat Ich is HYPO like Flower mentioned or copper treatment (there is a lot of good information in the fish disease section, great place to research). You are kind of in an in between stage. What fish are still alive?? You could/should set up a 10g QT tank and let the DT (display tank) sit fishless for 6-8 weeks (Fallow), this will let the Ich go through its life cycle and not have a host (fish) to attach to and stay. But the problem is that you would have to cycle the 10g QT tank. This can take some time.
Best thing to do is start up the 10g QT tank ASAP. Once it is cycled (you can kick start the cycle by adding some sponge from an established tank that has the beneficial bacteria already built up on it). Buy some Amquil + or some Prime (this is an ammonia binder, use it if you have any reading of ammonia besides 0ppm). You can do lots of water changes on the QT to "soft cycle" it and put the sick clown in right away (please research "soft cycle" before you try this).
I know its a lot coming at you on this tank really fast. But it is a nice setup you have going there. I like the rockwork. IMHO it is definitely worth sticking with it.
Treated tap water is not the end of the world here, you have other bigger problems to address first. Once you get things settled down and set up a QT and let the DT go fallow... Look into RO/DI water, this is pure water without any trace elements. This is the preferred water to use in our hobby.
Good luck with all of this. You came to a great place to look for advice. As you can tell from all the reply's here, everyone is only interested in seeing you succeed with your little slice of ocean you your home. I don't think anyone has tried to sell you anything here, only solid advice!!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Way too many aggressive fish for such a small little tank. They will mostly kill each other off.
 
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