What would you do with an out of control child?

teresaq

Active Member
Jenn, you really need to have her tested for adhd. My ped did my daughter and what a world of difference meds make. My daughter was never violent, but out of control. This yr she has not had to flip one card, and is very good in school. when she doesn't take her meds, she is very hyper, and gets into trouble a lot. I know she cant help it, I am trying to teach her to calm herself and to recognize when she is out of control.
I would also talk with the childs Social Worker about her behavior, she may be able to guild you to help.
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
fallon (6yr old in a nutshell)
some days she can be good , polite helpful, the sweetest child you would ever want . if you tell her she can't have / do something for whatever reason the winds change and she gets beligerant yells stomps kicks bites hits, next time you see her she could be right back to good or it could be starting out bad already , lies straight to your face , exp... fallon why did you hit your brother? tell him your sorry ...i didnt hit him he fell...fallon he didnt fall i saw you hit him ...no you didnt he fell when you werent looking....fallon i know you are lying to me... no im not...yes you are fallon go to the corner till you can say your sorry and admit that you lied a few minutes later fallon are you ready to apologise...but i didnt do it (and tears start coming) why do i have to say sorry i didnt do it then go back to the corner...etc etc
she will stand in the corner usually quiet and still no problems with that but when she comes out one of the first things she does is pick at her brother or william my son
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Dont argue with her . your already loosing if you allow her to rebute and challange your athourity . Put the limit of standing in the corner on her . When she can behave she can come out and then appolagize to her brother . But she CAN NOT come out until she can behave and apolagize like a big girl . If she starts right back in then she goes back and start over , help her to find her peace . You need to guid her to it .
 

reefraff

Active Member
I wouldn't worry about why the kids are screwed up more than the fact they are screwed up. No matter what the cause you can start taking positive steps now.
You're behind the 8 ball because of CPS involvement. It doesn't matter if the kid would really benefit from a swat, you can't do it.
Best two things you have to use are rules and consistency. Make the girl understand that if she gets in trouble at school she loses a privelage at home and stand behind it. If she is sent home don't let her watch cartoons or play games. Make her read a book of something until she would have gotten home from school.
I personally think the boy may be your biggest problem. The lack of speech development and not being potty trained could be a sign of a bigger issue.
All that being said I am sure you hear this alot but not enough, You are one terrific person Jenny
 

spanko

Active Member
I always say better living through chemistry! (left over from my hippie days in the 60's and 70's I guess)
 

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2545256
Jenn,, sound like a lot of --mad at the world kid--. I would seek prof help. Have her tested for attachment problems, adhd, and a slew of other things that children from an abusive home can have.. call the school and ask to speak with the school psychologist. set boundary's and stick to them. Kids want and need them, give praise when deserved and discipline needed.

100% agreed. These children have had no parents. They have had no boundries, care, proper feeding, sleeping etc. These are things that parents do as parents. parenting is the hardest job on the PLANET!! Unfortunately ANYone can have a child. These kids need to have permanet new gardians
so they can have a fresh (although rough on everyone) start.
Will the state provide any evaluations for you. Jenny, you of all don't need any of this, but I am sure you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart and for those kids. BUT, in the end, if they are turning your life upside down and upsetting your household, I would have to speak up.
 

alyssia

Active Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2545565
100% agreed. These children have had no parents. They have had no boundries, care, proper feeding, sleeping etc. These are things that parents do as parents. parenting is the hardest job on the PLANET!! Unfortunately ANYone can have a child. These kids need to have permanet new gardians
so they can have a fresh (although rough on everyone) start.
Will the state provide any evaluations for you. Jenny, you of all don't need any of this, but I am sure you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart and for those kids. BUT, in the end, if they are turning your life upside down and upsetting your household, I would have to speak up.
Exactly. I used to have a friend w/the brattiest daughter. The girl was 10 and would come to my house and hit, kick and bite me and my daughter. She got into trouble several times at school for spitting in her teachers face. She would scream at her mother "I hate you!!I hope you DIE!" During all of this my former friend (had to break off the friendship b/c I couldn't stand the brat anymore and I was afraid she would hurt one of my kids) would just stand there saying "IDK why she acts like this. She knows I don't like it." Then Kayla would spit in her face and kick her and her mom would say "Now Kayla, you know I don't like that." The child had absolutely no consequences for any of her actions. It's a shame when parents won't do their job and the rest of us have to deal w/it. Like how it's always the same kids disrupting the classroom and taking time away from other children's education.
 

skipperdz

Active Member
Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2545269
My wife is an ABA psychologist which deals with behavior analysis in children. I am not the expert but she is and this sounds like a textbook case to me. I would look into getting a ADHD diagnosys or exam to be more exact for the older girl. Sounds like she might have a case of autism as this is typical behavior. I will get my wife on here tonight to give her opinion but this is something that CANNOT be dealt with by removing the child from a home or school. It is going to take time, love and lots of effort to pull away from these type of behaviors and outbursts.
If the teachers respond to bad behavior, like throwing a fit to get a toy, by giving them the toy to quiet them....that is BAD and teaching them that if they throw a fit they get their way and the behavior will NEVER change. They have to be talked to like an adult (for the most part as they are indeed childred) and told to ask nicely for the toy, if they do, they get it. If not then the toy is taken away and put up and NOT given back under ANY circumstance until they calm down and ask nicely. The reason behavior like this is coming out can be a hundred reasons but alot of the hitting and crazy behavior is because they want some extra attention. If they can't behave they need to be seperated from the other kids and made to realize what they did is wrong. Hitting these kids won't do ANYTHING other than teach them that is a proper way to get your way....as that is exactly what the adult figure is doing.
I wish you the best of luck this is a hard hard thing to go through and you are a GREAT person to even try and be a help!
id also check into conduct disorder as well, if the child continues this way they could develope antisocial personality disorder.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by alyssia
http:///forum/post/2545580
Exactly. I used to have a friend w/the brattiest daughter. The girl was 10 and would come to my house and hit, kick and bite me and my daughter. She got into trouble several times at school for spitting in her teachers face. She would scream at her mother "I hate you!!I hope you DIE!" During all of this my former friend (had to break off the friendship b/c I couldn't stand the brat anymore and I was afraid she would hurt one of my kids) would just stand there saying "IDK why she acts like this. She knows I don't like it." Then Kayla would spit in her face and kick her and her mom would say "Now Kayla, you know I don't like that." The child had absolutely no consequences for any of her actions. It's a shame when parents won't do their job and the rest of us have to deal w/it. Like how it's always the same kids disrupting the classroom and taking time away from other children's education.

If my daughter spit in my face there would be a line a mile long to take turns spanking her .
 

pontius

Active Member
I agree with peef, you need some professional help. the 4 year old not being potty trained or talking normally is definitely a sign of abuse and/or major neglect. and that's probably what the 6 year old has dealt with too, just coping with it in a different way. a smack or a timeout is probably not going to help at all.
now for the spitting 10 year old, that sounds like poor parental discipline. that's why I'm not a teacher...any 10 year old that spits in my face is going to be picking teeth up off the floor.
 

howardj

Active Member
Call Super Nanny!!!

I agree w/ Alix, give her some good discipline..
And get that kid out of diapers!!
 

peef

Active Member
Hi this is Peef's wife, Lucy. Hope that I can shed some light.
Firstly it would be irresponsible for me to make any diagnosis or treatment assumptions based on your posting. This range of behaviors can occur within so many different contexts and can be the result of a range of antecendents. It would take a professional to observe these behaviors in their actual environment for anybody to establish a firm diagnosis. However, in MOST cases, a child aged 6 that is in regular education will have already been assessed as identification of special educational needs fall within the schools responsibility. Schools typically have their own psychologist who will be consulted if special ed concerns are identified in a child.
It makes me angry to read about the eagerness of people to hit their own or others' children. I am frequently working with children with challenging behavior which is a result of nothing more than their parent's handling, example and lack of understanding about basic behavioral concepts. We should be trying our upmost to encourage and reward desirable behavior, and punishment should only ever be the last resort for negative behavior. *** Physical punishment is a parental right but is incredibly unsuccessful for determining a positive parental role/relationship, there are other much more successful methods you can use***
It sounds like the school are not providing the support that I would hope for, especially with regards to her domestic circumstances and the turbulence in her life. Aggressive behaviors are UNACCEPTABLE in any children, and that goes for children with profound disorders like autism, across the spectrum, to children who have just been raised poorly and learned hitting/kicking/yelling as an effective method of communication. However, before getting heated and mad, you have to consider that she has been taught (inadvertently) that this is an effective communication method, to either escape a task demand that has been placed on her, or to receive attention, or be (inadvertently) rewarded for her unreasonable, inappropriate demands. Parents and teachers often unitentionally reinforce all of these terrible behaviors by giving in to constant inappropriate demands (yelling, crying, wining...) to make life easier (eg the dad that gives in and buys the toy for the child in the store to stop him crying and yelling that he wants it) or removing the task demand that has been made on the child (eg the teacher that doesn't follow through with instructions to "do your work" and allows the child to seek alternative stimulation) because it is just too hard to get them to finish their work. This just tells the child that the teacher's directions CAN be ignored, and this happens more frequently than you would like to think in schools. In both cases, the child has been taught by OUR responses that their crying/yelling/aggression will result in their desired outcome.
I am currently working with a child with very similar behaviors to those you describe. He refuses to participate in class activities, will not sit in his chair and will run away when the teacher tries to talk to him. For these reasons, the teacher has admitted to letting him get away with it to make life easier. So I am working on his compliance, using hand over hand and physical guidance where necessary to ensure that instructions are followed. He frequently responds with severe aggression (biting, kicking, punching, hair pulling) directed towards the 'law enforcer' (me!). I effectively ignore this range of behaviors (frustrating I know) and MAKE SURE that he does not escape the teacher's demands this way... He MUST NOT get what he wants by doing this. Upon completion of the task, once his neg behaviors have terminated, he is rewarded for his finished work (reward, motivational charts with stickers for individual tasks are great for this... plus small edible rewards - but not too high in sugar, that can be provided quickly and frequently for good behavior through the day). It has taken about 3 weeks to almost completely terminate the negative aggressive behaviors and now he is sitting through the entire school day and completing his work every day! It does work, with patience of course! It is SO important to take the attention emphasis off of the bad behavior and shift it towards the good behaviors that are occurring. We all (you, me, children, animals) are likely to want to do good things if we are rewarded for them, and less likely to do something horrible if it does not produce the results that we anticipate. However, a behavior plan like this is quite intensive and although I usually teach my clients' parents how to apply them successfully, you would be required to have a professional design one of these to successfully identify the causes of these behaviors and what may actually be reinforcing them without your knowledge. Where do you live because this always affects the services available to you.
 

peef

Active Member
Lastly potty training is incredibly difficult but patience pays off the most. The best method again is incentive training. You must anticipate the little boy's toilet times and try get him to the potty before the event occurs. When he successfully goes on the potty (of course with assistance from you at first) then reward him immediately after with something that he likes (a small cookie, candy, something like that) plus LOTS of verbal praise "WOW you went potty all by your self like a big boy, that was SO great!!!" (verbal praise goes a long way with any child, so amongst all of them, going over the top with the praise is never a bad thing - everyone loves to hear they did something great). You MUST be consistent - try and have a routine in place... Go to potty first thing in the morning, then after all snacks/meals/drinks, and then last thing at night. Don't wake him in the night at this stage, staying dry through the night will come in time. It will take a while, but you will begin to notice that the successful potty pees increase gradually as he will begin to show preference for going to potty for a reward and will learn to hold it/ask to go potty so that he can get his preferred treat.
If you want more specific info about specific behaviors you can drop me a line privately via Peef's email patricktmccoy@yahoo.com Hope this has some helpful info for you...
 

alyssia

Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2545720
now for the spitting 10 year old, that sounds like poor parental discipline. that's why I'm not a teacher...any 10 year old that spits in my face is going to be picking teeth up off the floor.
 
Thats a tough job and I commend you. My neighbor is married and has a 14 year old daughter and a 12 year old daughter and a 3 year old son. Her 14 year old dad is in prison, her 12 year old dad is on drugs, and her son dad(her husband) is getting a divorce. Two days ago the 14 year old punched her mom in the face because her mom took her cellphone for being rude.
Her mom called the police but only to scare her.
No punishment because she is going to get a piercing tomorrow. I feel so bad for the 12 year old because she's always at my house or another neighbor's house.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I feel for these children, but as a mother my first responsibility would be to care for my own children, ensuring their safety and well being. And it does not sound to me like your children are safe with these other children. They are obviously in need of child therapy. Making your own children miserable, and even putting them at risk, does not seem like a good idea to me. Afterall, you and your kids have actually been through a lot recently already.
 

peef

Active Member
I also forgot to add, from your example of her behavior plus consequences (being sent home for spitting on the teacher) is the most clear example of the may we can inadvertently reward negative behaviors. She has learned from this episode that if she spits on the teacher she gets to go home!!! Whilst we may think this is a punishment, it really depends on the individual and her actual motivation/preference to be in home or school. It is important you get her teaching staff on board with this and unfortunately too few teachers have any behavioral training at all. Again, professional guidance is recommended, but if this is not immediately available, you must ask your school to not send the child home for misbehaving. This is NEVER an effective punishment, and is detrimental in the long run. All it does is help the teacher, not the child (and what is it their job to do after all???).
 

peef

Active Member
Oops sorry I meant hitting/kicking the teacher, not spitting of course. Got mixed up between posts. But the same applies, she should not get out of school for any of these behaviors.
 
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