cranberry
Active Member
These workers don't need to be disciplined.... they need to be prosecuted!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100228/..._snow911_death
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100228/..._snow911_death
What!
- Thread starter cranberry
- Start date
socal57che
Active Member
goes to show that there is someone out there for everyone. very sad to see Curtis die.
wfd1008
Member
I'm not defending the paramedics in this case, cause yes they should have walked to see what was happening, but the story doesn't tell everything. Something people don't think about are the frequent fliers of 911. Was this such a person? People abuse the 911 service ALL the time for things that would make you have to sit back and scratch your head. I've seen families that were too lazy to load their "loved" one up in the car to get to their doctors app. So instead they call 911 to get a ride. Drug seekers always wanting to get pain meds. Many people believe that the local 911 service is their personal taxi. People that believe that they don't need to monitor their own blood sugar, "that's what 911 is for". I've had a family member tell me that as husband lay on the floor while the medics were giving him glucose (for the second time in a day, and it was still light outside). This could be a case of the boy who cried wolf, the sad thing is, the wolf bit both parties.
With all that being said, should the medics be punished, YES. Should their supervisors be held accountable also, YES. Did the system fail these people, YES. So in this case, the crap should roll up hill, and everyone should have to take a bite of the proverbial sandwich.
With all that being said, should the medics be punished, YES. Should their supervisors be held accountable also, YES. Did the system fail these people, YES. So in this case, the crap should roll up hill, and everyone should have to take a bite of the proverbial sandwich.
bigarn
Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3237791
I answer every alarm.......
And so it should be. It's their job to respond ASAP no matter what. This incident should by no means shed a bad light on EMT's, they are heros in my book!
wfd1008
Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3237791
I answer every alarm.......
And so do I, are you fire or medic?
flower
Well-Known Member
I suppose everyone will hate me for saying this:
When rescuing a drowning man, sometimes you have to let go to save yourself.
The EMTs had no idea how close they were, walking is way different than driving. A football length away while trudging in the snow and snow drifts with emergency equipment is near impossible. I don’t think the poor man could walk to the ambulance either.
I doubt the EMTs were equipped with snow suites, they may have been dressed for the weather to go in and out of homes, not trudge a mile or so (a football field) in a storm. Everyone was unprepared.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3237911
I suppose everyone will hate me for saying this:
When rescuing a drowning man, sometimes you have to let go to save yourself.
The EMTs had no idea how close they were, walking is way different than driving. A football length away while trudging in the snow and snow drifts with emergency equipment is near impossible. I don’t think the poor man could walk to the ambulance either.
I doubt the EMTs were equipped with snow suites, they may have been dressed for the weather to go in and out of homes, not trudge a mile or so (a football field) in a storm. Everyone was unprepared.
I don't remember if it was a movie or TV show where I saw that premise thrown out. Had never thought about that before but it makes sense. Something along the lines of "how many people have you saved today, and if you die how many more will die because you aren't there?"
http:///forum/post/3237911
I suppose everyone will hate me for saying this:
When rescuing a drowning man, sometimes you have to let go to save yourself.
The EMTs had no idea how close they were, walking is way different than driving. A football length away while trudging in the snow and snow drifts with emergency equipment is near impossible. I don’t think the poor man could walk to the ambulance either.
I doubt the EMTs were equipped with snow suites, they may have been dressed for the weather to go in and out of homes, not trudge a mile or so (a football field) in a storm. Everyone was unprepared.
I don't remember if it was a movie or TV show where I saw that premise thrown out. Had never thought about that before but it makes sense. Something along the lines of "how many people have you saved today, and if you die how many more will die because you aren't there?"
cranberry
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3237850
If they were sitting around drinking coffee thats bad. If they were running their tails off and chose to prioritize away from a frequent flier that would have tied up a lot of time due to not being able to reach the location in their vehicle that would be quite another.
They got there 2 secs after her last she called that he was dead. I guess death is a priority.
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3237911
Everyone was unprepared.
It PA! How can one not be prepared! I think they should have this pretty much down now, being that winter seems to come every year bringing snow.
http:///forum/post/3237850
If they were sitting around drinking coffee thats bad. If they were running their tails off and chose to prioritize away from a frequent flier that would have tied up a lot of time due to not being able to reach the location in their vehicle that would be quite another.
They got there 2 secs after her last she called that he was dead. I guess death is a priority.
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3237911
It PA! How can one not be prepared! I think they should have this pretty much down now, being that winter seems to come every year bringing snow.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3238033
They got there 2 secs after her last she called that he was dead. I guess death is a priority.
Sounds more to me like they got there as a result of one of her previous calls if they were there that fast. It will be interesting to see all the details come out.
http:///forum/post/3238033
They got there 2 secs after her last she called that he was dead. I guess death is a priority.
Sounds more to me like they got there as a result of one of her previous calls if they were there that fast. It will be interesting to see all the details come out.
wfd1008
Member
It's easy for people to critique after the fact, but in the moment, what would you really do? I'm betting that the medics were on their own in this case cause the fire dept. was tied up with calls of their own, so there probably was no mutual aid, or lift assist. Sure they could have just grabbed a back board and walked up the street and tied the patient to it and used it as a sled maybe. Would it be a challenge, sure. Even if they got to the patients house, what could they have done for him, and how long would it have taken them to get back to their squad carrying an adult male? That is if they JUST took a back board. Try this: put on some long johns, then put one a loose fitting pair of pants. Next head down to your local fire house and ask to barrow some turn out gear (tell them your testing and they'll probably have some extra gear). Now on top of what you have on, put on the pants, boots, and coat. Find two backpacks and fill one with about 25LBS., and the other with about 35. Then find you a cot that weighs about 70LBS. Get a buddy and the two of you go walking through about 2 1/2 to 3 feet of snow up hill. Tell me how easy that is. Were they in the wrong for not trying, Yes. Is it a shame that someone lost their life because of this, yes. If you read, it's not entirely the medics fault. The 911 operators dropped the ball, and it even says the caller canceled the calls when he was told that he would need to walk to meet the medics. I would like to hear what the autopsy report says.
btldreef
Moderator
WOW!
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
wfd1008
Member
Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3238193
WOW!
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
I think if your not willing to do the work that any job requires, then you need to find a new line of work. It's not just in EMS.
Most people take this job because its what they WANT to do. It never said that those medics didn't want to help. I hope that your last line is referring to them and not me, cause if so...
http:///forum/post/3238193
WOW!
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
I think if your not willing to do the work that any job requires, then you need to find a new line of work. It's not just in EMS.
Most people take this job because its what they WANT to do. It never said that those medics didn't want to help. I hope that your last line is referring to them and not me, cause if so...
btldreef
Moderator
Originally Posted by wfd1008
http:///forum/post/3238207
I think if your not willing to do the work that any job requires, then you need to find a new line of work. It's not just in EMS.
Most people take this job because its what they WANT to do. It never said that those medics didn't want to help. I hope that your last line is referring to them and not me, cause if so...
Honestly, I didn't even read most of the posts since I'm on my phone. No, nothing that I wrote was referring to you, your posts, or anyone else's comments, just stating my personal opinion as someone who has worked in EMS, volunteered in EMS and now works in other areas of the medical field.
http:///forum/post/3238207
I think if your not willing to do the work that any job requires, then you need to find a new line of work. It's not just in EMS.
Most people take this job because its what they WANT to do. It never said that those medics didn't want to help. I hope that your last line is referring to them and not me, cause if so...
Honestly, I didn't even read most of the posts since I'm on my phone. No, nothing that I wrote was referring to you, your posts, or anyone else's comments, just stating my personal opinion as someone who has worked in EMS, volunteered in EMS and now works in other areas of the medical field.
flower
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3238193
WOW!
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
Did you really read that article? Three sets of EMTs tried their darndest to reach the guy. Only one out of the three could get over some bridge but it was still a football length away (they didn't know that) and they would have had to walk with equipment and gone searching for the place.
911 dispatcher dropped the ball because they were over taxed with calls, each time the lady called for help it was treated as a new call, the EMTs tried and failed.
The man’s death was not the EMTs fault. The system failed him, they need to tweak it and be better prepared for the next storm. Needing an ambulance in a snow storm is a worst case scenario. Just getting to the victim is the biggest problem.
http:///forum/post/3238193
WOW!
If an EMT or Medic isn't willing to walk through the snow for a man who had a history of pancreatitis and was just released from the hospital for such problems not that long before the snow storm, they shouldn't be an EMT or Medic. There is no "Save Yourself" in this scenario. It's snow. If you're not willing to do it, you should chose a different line of work. PERIOD.
Did you really read that article? Three sets of EMTs tried their darndest to reach the guy. Only one out of the three could get over some bridge but it was still a football length away (they didn't know that) and they would have had to walk with equipment and gone searching for the place.
911 dispatcher dropped the ball because they were over taxed with calls, each time the lady called for help it was treated as a new call, the EMTs tried and failed.
- Could they have tried harder?
- With bad weather on the way, could the doctors have kept the guy in the hospital instead of ping ponging him in and out of the ER?
Could 911 dispatcher have a little more training for sending emergency help?
The man’s death was not the EMTs fault. The system failed him, they need to tweak it and be better prepared for the next storm. Needing an ambulance in a snow storm is a worst case scenario. Just getting to the victim is the biggest problem.