Why we are losing the war in Iraq...

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Asi es, Ahora si tu eres tan Intelligente entiendes lo que te estoy diciendo?..My primary language isn't English thus why i'm lacking on grammer but i actually can spell better English then my american friends..maybe i have ignorant friends too..Now when you can handle more than a couple languages then let me know..
Now can you go back to topic or your brain can't function??
First, you say I'm lacking in intelligence, then you say my brain can't function. In all seriousness Aztec, you're the dumbest person I have ever encountered on the Internet. I don't care how many languages you know, because you obviously haven't learned anything using any of them. And I'm glad you're not an American.

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
"first amendment"
This goes down hill in the CIA family jewls, as Information gets white-out..You might as well not release NOTHING to the public..
"first amendment" Please.. we're talking about federal cases, Not your average small claims courts...
Apparently you don't know what it is. Bye-bye, genius.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
First, you say I'm lacking in intelligence, then you say my brain can't function. In all seriousness Aztec, you're the dumbest person I have ever encountered on the Internet. I don't care how many languages you know, because you obviously haven't learned anything using any of them. And I'm glad you're not an American.
We have so much in comman..I'm so glad that i'm not you! since you're older than me..

That's right, you may look smart by writing a good essay, grammatically correct,and with inpecable grammar..All of that means NOTHING!! if you have no good points! in other words you lack COHERENCE in linguistics which should be the effectiveness of your posts, and to date i haven't seen that from you, Intellectual!..Its funny how, but you can't handle me. so go ahead and write me an essay on how smart you are. and stop talking about nonsense..all you can do is post petty comments??? What else could i expect from you?

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Apparently you don't know what it is. Bye-bye, genius.

School boy! the first Amen-dment protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference..
"The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. The right to free speech includes other mediums of expression that communicate a message". SUCH AS BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ALIENS , WAR, WMD,OIL,TERRORISM ECT......"governmental interests in disclosure/registration outweigh interference with first amendment rights. The government may also, generally, not compel individuals to express themselves, hold certain beliefs, or belong to particular associations or groups". those two points sound kind of contradicting, Although i can see how each one would work perfectly depending on the Goverment interests on a particular case..
I don't care about Religion reports or anything that DOESN'T have to do with what i mentioned..

 

[nigerbang]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
School boy! the first Amen-dment protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference..
"The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. The right to free speech includes other mediums of expression that communicate a message". SUCH AS BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ALIENS , WAR, WMD,OIL,TERRORISM ECT......"governmental interests in disclosure/registration outweigh interference with first amendment rights. The government may also, generally, not compel individuals to express themselves, hold certain beliefs, or belong to particular associations or groups". those two points sound kind of contradicting, Although i can see how each one would work perfectly depending on the Goverment interests on a particular case..
I don't care about Religion reports or anything that DOESN'T have to do with what i mentioned..

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.....
The right to petition the government for a redress of grievances guarantees people the right to ask the government to provide relief for a wrong through the courts (litigation) or other governmental action. It works with the right of assembly by allowing people to join together and seek change from the government.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
This coming from someone who can't spell...
I agree with aztec here...instead of attacking him, defend your position

 

[oceansidefish]

First amendment rights are what makes this country great.... I did hear an interesting story over the weekend about reporters and just thought I would share. I don't have really much of an opinion on it yet since I have yet to find the time to check the facts for myself.
I would like to know what all of you think and also would to note that the Media is controlled by money. Bottom line.
In florida one of the FOX news affiliates hired a husband and wife investigative reporting team to do a special report on the controversial Bovine growth hormone (given to cattle). During their investigation they discovered several health issues from the company in humans with relation to the consumption of the hormone from milk products. When the executives of the affiliate found out about what the reporters were going to go on air with in the story they made the reporters change the story to only include information given to them from the

[hr]
companies top people. The story was reportedly re-written 70 times until network execs approved it with all of the bad effects removed from the reported story. The couple was then fired from the network when they refused to report the falsified information and reported the station to the FCC ethics commitee.
They recently sued Fox and won a settlement for 450,000, after reporting the incident to the FCC...Fox appealed the case and won. The case I believe is now headed for the supreme court's desks. The appelate court's reasoning was that it was not illegal to fire the couple. The FCC rules do not mandate the reporting of truth, merely suggest it.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
...Lets look back alittle, there has ALWAYS been and will be terrorists, you can't clean out /secure the hole east. that's impossible..
Come on school me! Educated,sophisticated,prestigious peeps...

School lesson #1:
Hole- something you dig
Whole- an entire region

Careful what you ask for...
There have always been terrorists... it's just that these particular terrorists want to kill us. Big difference.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
...that just proves my point! why isn't there any???Or why haven't we heard of such cases??? MAYBE cause they're so good on following THE rules...
Or maybe because you're idea is crazy and this doesn't happen. Every law in the USA has been broken. People are in jail for all sorts of crimes, yet somehow the government controls the media so firmly that no reporter has ever "broken" the law and been locked away?
How about showing us the law you say reporters are afraid of breaking? The law where they can't report anything without the Government's authority. I'd love to read that particular law.

 

[clown boy]

 

[oceansidefish]

There are currently 134 journalists in jail for "antistate" reporting....
31 in China
24 in Cuba
23 in Eritrea
18 Ethiopia
7 in Burma
Funny...I don't see any from the US???? I am sure there are journalists in jail, but not from reporting...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Oceansidefish
There are currently 134 journalists in jail for "antistate" reporting....
31 in China
24 in Cuba
23 in Eritrea
18 Ethiopia
7 in Burma
Funny...I don't see any from the US???? I am sure there are journalists in jail, but not from reporting...
there are journalist in jail in the U.S for reporting and not revealing their sources...

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
there are journalist in jail in the U.S for reporting and not revealing their sources...
Name one currently jailed, I don't think there is. It can happen but only after they hae their day in court. Doesn't change the fact they are allowed to print whatever they want as long as the journalist has reasonable evidence to show the story was factual.

 

[oceansidefish]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
there are journalist in jail in the U.S for reporting and not revealing their sources...
I am assuming you are thinking of Judith Miller...She was not jailed for not revealing sources in a story. In fact she was jailed for contempt of court. Currently there is no federal law where reporters sources are protected that I know of. In a federal investigation you still have to testify... She willingly went to jail. She also never wrote a story about what she was called to testify for.

 

[oceansidefish]

Originally Posted by reefraff
Name one currently jailed, I don't think there is. It can happen but only after they hae their day in court. Doesn't change the fact they are allowed to print whatever they want as long as the journalist has reasonable evidence to show the story was factual.
Acutally you don't even have to prove a story is factual, it just can't be defamatory or slanderous..... You could report the health miracle of moon dust if you wanted too.

 

[aztec reef]

Why wouldn't they be able to control the media??? if they can make or brake any laws without you noticing ?? (they won't report it though)This is assault on public privacy. Eavesdroping on telephone conversations, e-mails and other electronic communications is a way of violating peoples right just like
the Patriot Act violates at least six of the ten original amendments known as the Bill of Rights — the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments — and possibly the Thirteenth and Fourteenth as well..
http://www.rutherford.org/articles_d...?record_id=343
Sure blame it on the war on terrorism..maybe that's why they don't want to pull out..cause they're thinking what other laws they can change before they retrive?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...484_spy06.html
"There have always been terrorists... it's just that these particular terrorists want to kill us. Big difference."
please.. name one terrorist that doesn't wanna kill you??? If they're terrorist what could they want? to give you a computer virus?
"How about showing us the law you say reporters are afraid of breaking? The law where they can't report anything without the Government's authority"
I didn't say that they where afraid! I said they wish they could get a hold of contraversial info more often.. And if anyone is lucky enuf to get such info, they don't get much coverage on the media or they don't last long in the media, or they get ridiculed cause most people don't believe it due ignorance..
People are used to a certain type of media and its the medias job to report what their viewers political party preference is..
What i'm saying is that the people have no power over what the goverment wants to broadcast.In the other hand the Goverment does have power over what the media wants to show.
Also the Goverment can brake and make laws anytime they want and what a better time right now that the War on terrorism is at play..
Do you really think the US can take out every single Insurgent?, if yes, how long will it take??? if not then what is the strategy or the objective?? You cannot change a Goverment if they don't want to cooperate...Specially when you want to send more troops over there...If Bin laden is going to attack Again then i think it would most likely be here in Homeland..Not over there!! Is going to look really funny if there is another terrorist attack here while the troops are still over in the East..How can we secure another country if we can't even secure ours???
Here's how good the War is going..http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...ml?source=mypi
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...US_Deaths.html
Now, i'm still waiting for some good FACTS on the latest Acomplishments on the "war on terrorism"..

please, someone.....Anybody?

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Why wouldn't they be able to control the media??? if they can make or brake any laws without you noticing ?? (they won't report it though)This is assault on public privacy. Eavesdroping on telephone conversations, e-mails and other electronic communications is a way of violating peoples right just like
the Patriot Act violates at least six of the ten original amendments known as the Bill of Rights — the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments — and possibly the Thirteenth and Fourteenth as well..
http://www.rutherford.org/articles_d...?record_id=343
Sure blame it on the war on terrorism..maybe that's why they don't want to pull out..cause they're thinking what other laws they can change before they retrive?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...484_spy06.html
"There have always been terrorists... it's just that these particular terrorists want to kill us. Big difference."
please.. name one terrorist that doesn't wanna kill you??? If they're terrorist what could they want? to give you a computer virus?
"How about showing us the law you say reporters are afraid of breaking? The law where they can't report anything without the Government's authority"
I didn't say that they where afraid! I said they wish they could get a hold of contraversial info more often.. And if anyone is lucky enuf to get such info, they don't get much coverage on the media or they don't last long in the media, or they get ridiculed cause most people don't believe it due ignorance..
People are used to a certain type of media and its the medias job to report what their viewers political party preference is..
What i'm saying is that the people have no power over what the goverment wants to broadcast.In the other hand the Goverment does have power over what the media wants to show.
Also the Goverment can brake and make laws anytime they want and what a better time right now that the War on terrorism is at play..
Do you really think the US can take out every single Insurgent?, if yes, how long will it take??? if not then what is the strategy or the objective?? You cannot change a Goverment if they don't want to cooperate...Specially when you want to send more troops over there...If Bin laden is going to attack Again then i think it would most likely be here in Homeland..Not over there!! Is going to look really funny if there is another terrorist attack here while the troops are still over in the East..How can we secure another country if we can't even secure ours???
Here's how good the War is going..http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...ml?source=mypi
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...US_Deaths.html
Now, i'm still waiting for some good FACTS on the latest Acomplishments on the "war on terrorism"..

please, someone.....Anybody?

You say we're being lied to about what's going on in Iraq, and that the government has control over the media, then post several links to stories that reflect poorly on the government and/or demonstrate that they actually have no control over the media. If you don't see the contradiction in that, then there's no point in discussing this with you.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
You say we're being lied to about what's going on in Iraq, and that the government has control over the media, then post several links to stories that reflect poorly on the government and/or demonstrate that they actually have no control over the media. If you don't see the contradiction in that, then there's no point in discussing this with you.
I don't say anything, the Links i posted are not my words! Its FACTS!
If the Goverment has the power to change and violate the constitutional rights,like the 6 Amedments of the bill of rights why in the world wouldn't they have control over the media???

They might have no control of stuff that leaks out!! But that's a whole different story!!How many of those cases do we get usually ? and are they even cases that puts the Goverment in contraversy?
Yes, you're being lied to and there's plenty of proof..Show me some proof that you're NOT being lied to?? i already put my cards on the table, now its your move..If you can't Debate with facts or even with phony links then guess what? I'm done with you. Aparently you have no semantics..

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
I don't say anything, the Links i posted are not my words! Its FACTS!
If the Goverment has the power to change and violate the constitutional rights,like the 6 Amedments of the bill of rights why in the world wouldn't they have control over the media???

They might have no control of stuff that leaks out!! But that's a whole different story!!How many of those cases do we get usually ? and are they even cases that puts the Goverment in contraversy?
Yes, you're being lied to and there's plenty of proof..Show me some proof that you're NOT being lied to?? i already put my cards on the table, now its your move..If you can't Debate with facts or even with phony links then guess what? I'm done with you. Aparently you have no semantics..
Proof? The links you posted are proof enough. If the government had control of the media, as you think they do, then why would any negative story ever come out of Iraq? Why would any story that could be seen as negative for the current administration (or any administration) ever come out? Why would you be allowed to continually post the nonsense that you do? Again, you provide all the proof I need. You're just incapable of seeing it.

 

[rylan1]

There is currently a story on CNN's website talking about the anniversary of the atomic bomb in Japan. The story talks about a new documentry on HBO and that how footage of the survivors and aftermath of the bomb had been banned for 25 years. I believe the gov't gives access to information they want reported, but if they don't want to then it won't get out. All the scandals that have broke have dealt with individuals only, not cover ups or govermental conspiracies, simply nothing that puts our government as a whole in a bad light. If a report does come out, it will be after all involved are gone and dead. So welll probably start hearing things that occured in the late 60's and early 70's soon.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Proof? The links you posted are proof enough. If the government had control of the media, as you think they do, then why would any negative story ever come out of Iraq? Why would any story that could be seen as negative for the current administration (or any administration) ever come out? Why would you be allowed to continually post the nonsense that you do? Again, you provide all the proof I need. You're just incapable of seeing it.
There is no way to prove this because no civilian has access to the truth. Really none of us know what the truth really is, and basically you all are assuming that everything we read or hear on tv is truth. I believe the government will do what they need to do to sway majority of public opinion in their favor. For all of you who think you know everything ask yourself this.... how much do you know about this war out of all the possible information? ....maybe 1-5% at most. So in the rest of the 95% of absloute knowledge... is it possible that somewhere we are being mislead or that we have the slightest clue of what is really going on? Does the military have the ability and the willingness to hide this information, yes