Will Beneficial Bacteria grow with Ammonia at 2.00
- Thread starter jpc763
- Start date
reefforbrains
Active Member
I respectfully disagree. I agree that even trace amonia is harmful for long term, a spike when cycling at 2.0 should NOT wipe out the new bacteria if proper steps are taken.
While 2.0 IS very high, I dont think it will put a deadlock on the tanks cycle development.
Normally when trying to jumpstart a cycle the limit is 1.0 for Max Amonia but some have reported at almost 3.0 and still come through with great success.
Long story short you can take a step back and get to solid ground by doing a partial waterchange to dillute your existing amonia back to under the 1.0 range and then go from there if your really worried about it.
Just keep a monitor on it and keep us posted but I would think if 2.0 is the MAX then now you should be coming back down. While a tad extreme, everything should be great on its own. Definatley hit a waterchange if you see any upward movement from here, but I would not expect it to raise with the shrimp now removed.
good luck
While 2.0 IS very high, I dont think it will put a deadlock on the tanks cycle development.
Normally when trying to jumpstart a cycle the limit is 1.0 for Max Amonia but some have reported at almost 3.0 and still come through with great success.
Long story short you can take a step back and get to solid ground by doing a partial waterchange to dillute your existing amonia back to under the 1.0 range and then go from there if your really worried about it.
Just keep a monitor on it and keep us posted but I would think if 2.0 is the MAX then now you should be coming back down. While a tad extreme, everything should be great on its own. Definatley hit a waterchange if you see any upward movement from here, but I would not expect it to raise with the shrimp now removed.
good luck
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
I respectfully disagree. I agree that even trace amonia is harmful for long term, a spike when cycling at 2.0 should NOT wipe out the new bacteria if proper steps are taken.
While 2.0 IS very high, I dont think it will put a deadlock on the tanks cycle development.
Normally when trying to jumpstart a cycle the limit is 1.0 for Max Amonia but some have reported at almost 3.0 and still come through with great success.
Long story short you can take a step back and get to solid ground by doing a partial waterchange to dillute your existing amonia back to under the 1.0 range and then go from there if your really worried about it.
Just keep a monitor on it and keep us posted but I would think if 2.0 is the MAX then now you should be coming back down. While a tad extreme, everything should be great on its own. Definatley hit a waterchange if you see any upward movement from here, but I would not expect it to raise with the shrimp now removed.
good luck
I agree; the species of bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite should be thriving; but 2.0 is too high for the nitrite to nitrate bacteria. What are your nitrite levels?
I respectfully disagree. I agree that even trace amonia is harmful for long term, a spike when cycling at 2.0 should NOT wipe out the new bacteria if proper steps are taken.
While 2.0 IS very high, I dont think it will put a deadlock on the tanks cycle development.
Normally when trying to jumpstart a cycle the limit is 1.0 for Max Amonia but some have reported at almost 3.0 and still come through with great success.
Long story short you can take a step back and get to solid ground by doing a partial waterchange to dillute your existing amonia back to under the 1.0 range and then go from there if your really worried about it.
Just keep a monitor on it and keep us posted but I would think if 2.0 is the MAX then now you should be coming back down. While a tad extreme, everything should be great on its own. Definatley hit a waterchange if you see any upward movement from here, but I would not expect it to raise with the shrimp now removed.
good luck
1journeyman
Active Member
According to Dr. Fenner, any ammonia above 1.0 starts to become toxic to even your bacteria.
Ammonia this high is killing a lot of life on your live rock. NO reason to let it go this high. Do water changes immidiately.
Ammonia this high is killing a lot of life on your live rock. NO reason to let it go this high. Do water changes immidiately.
jpc763
Active Member
This is a 5g QT. It has 4 or 5 pieces of LR rubble and 1/2 cup of LS. That is it.
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
rcoultas
Member
Originally Posted by jpc763
This is a 5g QT. It has 4 or 5 pieces of LR rubble and 1/2 cup of LS. That is it.
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
YES DO WATER CHANGE - short and simple - no doubts
This is a 5g QT. It has 4 or 5 pieces of LR rubble and 1/2 cup of LS. That is it.
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
YES DO WATER CHANGE - short and simple - no doubts
royal gang
Active Member
Lol... they say some bacteria survives in lava, either, good or bad bacteria, I can guarantee some survived.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by jpc763
This is a 5g QT. It has 4 or 5 pieces of LR rubble and 1/2 cup of LS. That is it.
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
Do a water change, get the ammonia closer to 1.0 then let it finish cycling. I believe a hard cycle gererates more bacteria to hande more of a bioload. Ammonia is the most toxic and should not spike too high. Your nitrite will spike quite high though. Once he nitrite is at a steady zero and you have a nitrate reading, then do another water change and you will be good to go.
This is a 5g QT. It has 4 or 5 pieces of LR rubble and 1/2 cup of LS. That is it.
I pulled these out of my DT to help with the QT setup. I used 3.5g of water from my DT and 1.5g new saltwater.
I put a shrimp in there trying to create an ammonia source. It was in there for 24 hours max when the Ammonia hit 2.00
The level appears to be going back down. It is between 1.00 and 2.00 right now.
Nitrites are between 0 and 0.25ppm (closer to 0).
I know that tossing the shrimp in there was a bad idea with already established tank water. As another posted, it is like having a large fish die in a 5g tank, kaboom.
I asked about a water change and was told no. So should I change or not?
Thanks, J
Do a water change, get the ammonia closer to 1.0 then let it finish cycling. I believe a hard cycle gererates more bacteria to hande more of a bioload. Ammonia is the most toxic and should not spike too high. Your nitrite will spike quite high though. Once he nitrite is at a steady zero and you have a nitrate reading, then do another water change and you will be good to go.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Do a water change, get the ammonia closer to 1.0 then let it finish cycling. I believe a hard cycle gererates more bacteria to hande more of a bioload. ....
Only until the ammonia goes down, at which point the excess bacteria starves. That's why "hard" cycles are counter-productive. They produce toxins that kill a lot of micro-flora and fauna and for no long term benefit.
It's a myth that water changes affect the cycle. Do one immediately, and slap whoever told you not to do so.
Do a water change, get the ammonia closer to 1.0 then let it finish cycling. I believe a hard cycle gererates more bacteria to hande more of a bioload. ....
Only until the ammonia goes down, at which point the excess bacteria starves. That's why "hard" cycles are counter-productive. They produce toxins that kill a lot of micro-flora and fauna and for no long term benefit.
It's a myth that water changes affect the cycle. Do one immediately, and slap whoever told you not to do so.
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Only until the ammonia goes down, at which point the excess bacteria starves. That's why "hard" cycles are counter-productive. They produce toxins that kill a lot of micro-flora and fauna and for no long term benefit.
It's a myth that water changes affect the cycle. Do one immediately, and slap whoever told you not to do so.
I agree, in re-reading my earlier post, I may have implied to hold off on the water changes; but get ammonia below1.0 asap. I'm sure other sources have other numbers; but according to Jungle Labs: .25 ammonia is safe (for fish); .5 is stressful; 3.0 is the real danger level. These seem high, but right off a test kit. I checked Red Sea, they say above .25 is toxic to fish. If leading manufactures of the products we use can't agree; seems these forums become that much more important. I know that a Flame Angel can't handle ammonia above .15; research above and beyond the product containers and the folks at the lfs is so vital to success in this hobby. I also agree that water changes shouldn't be done during cycling is a never-ending MYTH. Why not? Water is being changed, 99.9% of the beneficial bacteria live in the rock, sand, or other filter media.
Only until the ammonia goes down, at which point the excess bacteria starves. That's why "hard" cycles are counter-productive. They produce toxins that kill a lot of micro-flora and fauna and for no long term benefit.
It's a myth that water changes affect the cycle. Do one immediately, and slap whoever told you not to do so.
I agree, in re-reading my earlier post, I may have implied to hold off on the water changes; but get ammonia below1.0 asap. I'm sure other sources have other numbers; but according to Jungle Labs: .25 ammonia is safe (for fish); .5 is stressful; 3.0 is the real danger level. These seem high, but right off a test kit. I checked Red Sea, they say above .25 is toxic to fish. If leading manufactures of the products we use can't agree; seems these forums become that much more important. I know that a Flame Angel can't handle ammonia above .15; research above and beyond the product containers and the folks at the lfs is so vital to success in this hobby. I also agree that water changes shouldn't be done during cycling is a never-ending MYTH. Why not? Water is being changed, 99.9% of the beneficial bacteria live in the rock, sand, or other filter media.
jpc763
Active Member
I did another 50% water change today and finally I am under 1.0 (barely)
Test again tomorrow. We will see. My Nitrites went from 0.25 to zero also.
Hmmm wonder what will happen next.
QT
Temp: 78
SG: 1.023
Amm: 0.50 - 1.00 (somewhere between)
NO2: 0
Good news is that my DT is in great shape. Did a water change today (weekly and some cleaning) and all my levels are zero.
DT
Temp: 79
SG: 1.024
pH: 8.2
PO: 0
Amm: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Ca:520
KH: 161.1 (9 drops)
John
Hmmm wonder what will happen next.
QT
Temp: 78
SG: 1.023
Amm: 0.50 - 1.00 (somewhere between)
NO2: 0
Good news is that my DT is in great shape. Did a water change today (weekly and some cleaning) and all my levels are zero.
DT
Temp: 79
SG: 1.024
pH: 8.2
PO: 0
Amm: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Ca:520
KH: 161.1 (9 drops)
John
srfisher17
Active Member
Any NO3 in the QT yet?
jpc763
Active Member
Well I tested it again last night and the Ammonia was still the same as yesterday. I did a small 1g water change. I tested Nitrites and once again they came in at zero.
I had not been testing Nitrates because it is the 3rd stage of the cycle and I assumed that I had not finished the first stage. I also read that Nitrites can throw off Nitrate levels.
I will test all 3 tonight.
By the way, I have a small filter pad sitting in my fuge (since Sat) waiting to be transfered into this tank to add bacteria.
Is that a good idea?
Thanks, J
I had not been testing Nitrates because it is the 3rd stage of the cycle and I assumed that I had not finished the first stage. I also read that Nitrites can throw off Nitrate levels.
I will test all 3 tonight.
By the way, I have a small filter pad sitting in my fuge (since Sat) waiting to be transfered into this tank to add bacteria.
Is that a good idea?
Thanks, J
