Worm

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
There are dozens of species of fireworms. None of the ones encountered in the aquarium are predators of fish that I know of. However, I think we have reached a point in this debate where further discussion is fruitless.
So, I give you the puppy eating bubbles :joy:
There are over 10,000 species of Bristleworms. A few of them are predatory. Mudpayer is right on with his advice, keep the beneficial bristleworms which includes the vast majority of the Fireworms.
There are a couple of Bristleworms that can catch & eat live fish. They are quite rare in the hobby.

 

[nigertrigg]

Originally Posted by VickiCJ
Well the trap didn't work, so it's either a large wrasse or arrow crab for me...if I get the arrow, once he's taken care of the worm population what is his diet? I feed formula one & two plus a little brine shrimp now & then, would this work for him as well?
Arrowhead crabs eat algae and detritus. Here's a picture of one off google:

 

[nigertrigg]

Arrowhead crabs again are reef safte and will not harm any of your fish. They are very interesting to watch and will control your algae and will eat detritus. And of course will be happy to eat bad worms.

 

[vickicj]

Not cute little fellas are they ?

Sounds like that's my best bet, now finding one is another story - I'll check here & hopefully they'll have one in stock...thanks!!!

 

[wax32]

"Buying a fish or invertebrate for the sole purpose of controlling bristle worms is not the solution... controlling nutrients is. " Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner p176
If you buy an arrow crab (NOT REEF SAFE LONG TERM BTW) and it eats the bristle worm(s) now it is out of food, which means you have to add more food to your feeding regimen. Too much food is what lets the bristle worms multiply in the first place... Besides which, an arrow crab is 100 times more likely to kill your fish and inverts than any bristle worm.

 

[socal57che]

I agree with muddy-p.
I have oodles and gobs of them and have ONLY seen them eat something that was already dead. In fact they recoil quickly when something even gets close. After something dies they can have it bare bones in 36 hrs.
My niger trigger won't eat them. I can catch them and drop them in his tank. He sucks them in, spits them out and won't touch it again. He also will NOT eat frozen blood worms, but will eat dried ones.
I'd definitely keep the worms.

 

[vickicj]

Yes, unfortunately I'm in a catch22 position; I realize that the outbreak was caused by overfeeding which I stopped as soon as I realized I had a problem, after about 2 weeks of my cutting back on feeding, the worms must have gotten hungry and that's when my gobies disapeared. We all add things to our tanks at times to help in controlling the environment and that's what I'm going to do by adding an arrow. My tank is a little over 2 years old and a new addition at this point will be a welcome sight, and especially if he helps control the problem of the fireworms.

 

[clown52]

Originally Posted by wax32
Besides which, an arrow crab is 100 times more likely to kill your fish and inverts than any bristle worm.
I second that...MUCH more likely.

 

[vickicj]

Well shoot, maybe I should go with a wrasse, I like the sixline wrasse and I hear they do eat fireworms too...all I know is that I've lost 3 fish - haven't seen the fireworms eat any of them but my gobies disapeared and they were healthy - i've looked (as much as you can with all the sand & LR and have found not even a trace of them...the gash on my coral beauty that killed her wasn't a sharp straight cut like a tang (i assume) would make, it was jagged and wide so I really suspect the big worm since she hung out behind the rock that he lives in...again, all this coincides with my having cut back my feedings, and I have read many articles over the past few days confirming that fireworms can attack and consume smaller or inactive fish, and that they have attacked when fish were sleeping which stuns the fish long enough for the fireworm to overcome the fish. I certainly don't want to add anything to the tank that would be a danger to any of my fish, and now that I've researched on the arrow a bit more, a wrasse is my best option I believe.

 

[wax32]

A sixline wrasse is a small fish. They eat TINY bristle worms. Maybe someone will say, but I doubt if one will eat a 3 or 4" bristle worm. Their mouth is only this --- o ---- big.

 

[vickicj]

Yes, in fact i was at my lfs yesterday and he had one in stock, but i knew it was way too small for this guy. I don't know what to do actually - he said he could try to find a larger older one, but of course i don't want it to be killed by this monster...i'm going to pull out the rock this weekend and try to get as many of them as i can, i'm certain i'll easily find the big guy, and then i'll wait a couple of weeks with min. feeding to see what happens, i just don't want to lose any more fish and certainly don't want to bring another fish in just to have this sea monster kill it LOL. Seriously it's huge, and i will defeat it! One way or the other! I've definitely learned my lesson on overfeeding!!!!

 

[vickicj]

By the way, here's a pic of my coral beauty, it's not a good one, nor can you see the full extent of the gash on her side, but you can see a bit of it - it was quite jagged and deep, my lfs guy looked at her and doesn't think it could have been the tang as the cut was so jagged, so this is one of the reasons why i really want those monsters out!

 

[nigertrigg]

Originally Posted by wax32
"Buying a fish or invertebrate for the sole purpose of controlling bristle worms is not the solution... controlling nutrients is. " Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner p176
If you buy an arrow crab (NOT REEF SAFE LONG TERM BTW) and it eats the bristle worm(s) now it is out of food, which means you have to add more food to your feeding regimen. Too much food is what lets the bristle worms multiply in the first place... Besides which, an arrow crab is 100 times more likely to kill your fish and inverts than any bristle worm.
Thats not true at all. MY Aunt has an arrowhead crab in a 150 gallon reef for 3 years and it thrives. It has never touched a coral or anything for that matter. In addition, I have had first hand experience with them myself for about a year now in my 20 gallon nano.
they do not harm any of my invertebrates and if you want to make sure you can google it and find out that they are reef safe from professional websites that know what they are talking about.
No need for a 6 line.
Don't listen to those guys. It will not harm your tankmates nor inverts.

 

[vickicj]

Just wanted to share a pic of what I was able to get out of the one piece of LR - still numerous pieces to go but there were some pretty good size ones in the one, I poured club soda on them after i pulled them out so they are all curled up but you can see by this pic how infested my tank must be, this is just from one large piece!!!

 

[mudplayerx]

Originally Posted by nigertrigg
Don't listen to those guys. It will not harm your tankmates nor inverts.
So, since Siegfried and Roy are able to pat tigers on the head, I am able to do so without incident as well by your logic
Arrow crabs are a predatory, monitor in the reef species. While they may not bother any tankmates if kept well-fed, the fact is that they have been known in many many cases to prey on hermit crabs, starfish, shrimp, and even fish. The reputation of arrow crabs is worse than even that of coral banded shrimp. It is a shame too, because arrow crabs look really cool.
ps- vicki, that looks like a normal amount of bristleworms for a chunk of live rock in my opinion.

 

[vickicj]

Wow, hard to believe that that many in one rock is normal! But oh well, I know they multiply pretty fast, at least i've pulled out alot of the bigger ones and can rest easy that no more fish will fall prey, since i've now lost 3 to them! The two left are too big for them to mess with...have a great Saturday night! I'm off to pull out more worms

 

[nigertrigg]

I told you that you should have goten the arrowhead.

 

[bang guy]

All of the worms in the picture are beneficial Fireworms. None of the could have harmed your fish.
You need to find out why you're losing fish, it's not from the worms.

 

[scriggle]

I had 4 red bristle worms, all at least 5 inches long, in my 30g with a pistol shrimp and a yellow watchman goby that all hung out together in the same spot. there would be 3 of the worms sticking out of the rock touching my goby and pistol shrimp constantly as they would come in and out of hole during feeding time. nobody ever seemed to get stung and the worms never attacked anybody or even seemed to care about anybody. this was after I cut down on feeding so I knew they were hungry. I have never lost a fish yet, i also have a percula,damsel,lawnmower, and a clown goby that are always there every morning. since my tank is so small I did pull everything apart and I got 3 of them. I just believe that they were too big, and they would just keep getting bigger and hungrier until they finally went for a coral. I still have some small ones too so if there is a problem still the little ones will take care of it. I was in my LFS and I saw they had them too, I told the worker and he could have cared less. all in all i dont beleive they are predators or that they are bad, but if they are starving they could go for a coral ive heard, and that is a risk I sure as hell aint gonna take. I added an arrow crab and all he did was kill some snails and hermits, so i traded his hungry ass in right away. He was more dangerous than the damn bristleworms.

 

[nigertrigg]

Originally Posted by Scriggle
. I added an arrow crab and all he did was kill some snails and hermits, so i traded his hungry ass in right away. He was more dangerous than the damn bristleworms.
You must of got a mean one because mine has never touched a hermit or snail