xandrew25xs DIY led build
- Thread starter xandrew245x
- Start date
xandrew245x
Member
I was going to use quarter inch clear acrylic.
xandrew245x
Member
Okay, so my leds arrived today, and I have them glued down, I would like to start soldering asap but I need some help.
I plan on doing parallel wiring, I have read into it, but I am still not 100% sure about it.
How many leds can be run off one driver in parallel? I know in series, you can run 8-14 on each driver.
So you wire the black and white wire from the driver to the +and- on the led, then you run off the same +and- onto the next led, and on and so forth correct?
Also I plan on using resistors, do I need to just have one before each string of parallel wiring?
I plan on doing parallel wiring, I have read into it, but I am still not 100% sure about it.
How many leds can be run off one driver in parallel? I know in series, you can run 8-14 on each driver.
So you wire the black and white wire from the driver to the +and- on the led, then you run off the same +and- onto the next led, and on and so forth correct?
Also I plan on using resistors, do I need to just have one before each string of parallel wiring?
2quills
Well-Known Member
Andrew, you can run the same amount of leds in your parallel strings as you can in a typical single series string. The forward voltage is what's important. The forward voltage of a given type of L.E.D. will determine how many of them you can run in a string on a particular driver.
So you should look towards having a good understanding of the forward voltage requirements for the type of leds you are using.
XP-E require 3.2 volts for each led to drive them at 350mA (millivolts) and require 3.5 volts each when being driven at their maximum current of 1000mA. So between 3.2-3.5v for each led.
XP-G require 3.0-3.5 volts at their respective currents.
Hyphothetical situation: ELN P can put out between 24-48 volts. Take 12 XPG's and multiply by thier maximum 3.5 volt potential to get a total of 42 volts required to ever be able to drive a string of 12 XPG's to their max. Well within your 24-48v limit of a ELN P driver.
You take the minimum voltage limit of a particular type of led and divide that by the minimum output voltage signal of your driver (24v in this case) and you get a 8 XPG's. Take your maximum 48v output of your driver and divide by the maximum voltage a XPG will use (3.5v) to get a total maximum of 49 volts. This means you shouldn't use more than 13 XPG's in a string. It would still work but you're better off not using you'd just never reach 100% maximum output from your leds if you go over what your driver is capable of putting out. You'd get less and less current the higher and higher you go over.
Parallel strings: You need to keep the forward voltages of the two strings the same. For instance if you ran 12 XPG in one string of the driver then you need to use 12 XPG in the other string. Or 10XPE Royal Blue + 2 XPE Blue in one string and the same in the other. You can mix and match different leds in your strings...you just have to have an equal count of each type in the two strings to keep the forward voltage requirements (resistance) the same. Think of your strings as having to be Twins.
Make sure you use Fuses and Resistors. Resistors are optional but believe me on the fact that you'll want to have them.
And remember that you're dividing the maximum current in half by running parallel strings. If you were to do a set of 3 strings on your driver then you'd be dividing the amount of available output current by a third. Get the drift? Maximum output of 650mA per string instead of the maximum 1 amp which those drivers are capable of putting out when running just a single series string.
So you should look towards having a good understanding of the forward voltage requirements for the type of leds you are using.
XP-E require 3.2 volts for each led to drive them at 350mA (millivolts) and require 3.5 volts each when being driven at their maximum current of 1000mA. So between 3.2-3.5v for each led.
XP-G require 3.0-3.5 volts at their respective currents.
Hyphothetical situation: ELN P can put out between 24-48 volts. Take 12 XPG's and multiply by thier maximum 3.5 volt potential to get a total of 42 volts required to ever be able to drive a string of 12 XPG's to their max. Well within your 24-48v limit of a ELN P driver.
You take the minimum voltage limit of a particular type of led and divide that by the minimum output voltage signal of your driver (24v in this case) and you get a 8 XPG's. Take your maximum 48v output of your driver and divide by the maximum voltage a XPG will use (3.5v) to get a total maximum of 49 volts. This means you shouldn't use more than 13 XPG's in a string. It would still work but you're better off not using you'd just never reach 100% maximum output from your leds if you go over what your driver is capable of putting out. You'd get less and less current the higher and higher you go over.
Parallel strings: You need to keep the forward voltages of the two strings the same. For instance if you ran 12 XPG in one string of the driver then you need to use 12 XPG in the other string. Or 10XPE Royal Blue + 2 XPE Blue in one string and the same in the other. You can mix and match different leds in your strings...you just have to have an equal count of each type in the two strings to keep the forward voltage requirements (resistance) the same. Think of your strings as having to be Twins.
Make sure you use Fuses and Resistors. Resistors are optional but believe me on the fact that you'll want to have them.
And remember that you're dividing the maximum current in half by running parallel strings. If you were to do a set of 3 strings on your driver then you'd be dividing the amount of available output current by a third. Get the drift? Maximum output of 650mA per string instead of the maximum 1 amp which those drivers are capable of putting out when running just a single series string.
xandrew245x
Member
Okay, So over on reef central, the guy told me that you can't mix leds on a parallel string, well heres what I have planned out.
One driver is going to run one string of 8 of the XP-GR5 cools and one string of 8 XP-G nuetrals, If i'm correct, (which i really hope I am) this should work, since both those leds have the same forward voltage and such. (dumb me glued my leds on and didn't label them
now I can't figure out what is cool white and whats neutral, my plan was to power each set with its own driver but oh well)
One driver will power 2 strings of 10 royal blues and 3 regular so thats 20 royal and 6 regular on that driver,
One driver will power the remaining 8 royal blues in a series wiring
One driver is going to run one string of 8 of the XP-GR5 cools and one string of 8 XP-G nuetrals, If i'm correct, (which i really hope I am) this should work, since both those leds have the same forward voltage and such. (dumb me glued my leds on and didn't label them
now I can't figure out what is cool white and whats neutral, my plan was to power each set with its own driver but oh well)One driver will power 2 strings of 10 royal blues and 3 regular so thats 20 royal and 6 regular on that driver,
One driver will power the remaining 8 royal blues in a series wiring
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by xandrew245x http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462493
Okay, So over on reef central, the guy told me that you can't mix leds on a parallel string, well heres what I have planned out.
One driver is going to run one string of 8 of the XP-GR5 cools and one string of 8 XP-G nuetrals, If i'm correct, (which i really hope I am) this should work, since both those leds have the same forward voltage and such. (dumb me glued my leds on and didn't label them now I can't figure out what is cool white and whats neutral, my plan was to power each set with its own driver but oh well)
One driver will power 2 strings of 10 royal blues and 3 regular so thats 20 royal and 6 regular on that driver,
One driver will power the remaining 8 royal blues in a series wiring
I believe he said something about you can't have un equal numbers of leds in your strings. You certainly can mix match types there are hundreds or thousands of people doing it. You just have to have equal counts meaning equal resistance for each strings. Mixing your counts will create an unequal amount of resistance between the two strings and this would equate to a larger amount of current going threw the string with the lower amount of forward voltage (because it's less resistance) and a lesser amount of current passing through the other string since it has a higher amount of resistance. This would mean an unbalanced fixture. When running parallel strings the idea is to keep everything balanced.
You are correct on the way you are suggesting to run your blue's.
The way you are proposing to run your whites will work but understand this...it's only because to two different types of XPG's utilize the same forward voltages. So this wouldn't work for instance if you tried to run 12 XPE's on one string and 12 XR-E's (lets say) on another string. You could do 6 of each on each string but not have two totally different strings.
Originally Posted by xandrew245x http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462493
Okay, So over on reef central, the guy told me that you can't mix leds on a parallel string, well heres what I have planned out.
One driver is going to run one string of 8 of the XP-GR5 cools and one string of 8 XP-G nuetrals, If i'm correct, (which i really hope I am) this should work, since both those leds have the same forward voltage and such. (dumb me glued my leds on and didn't label them
now I can't figure out what is cool white and whats neutral, my plan was to power each set with its own driver but oh well)One driver will power 2 strings of 10 royal blues and 3 regular so thats 20 royal and 6 regular on that driver,
One driver will power the remaining 8 royal blues in a series wiring
I believe he said something about you can't have un equal numbers of leds in your strings. You certainly can mix match types there are hundreds or thousands of people doing it. You just have to have equal counts meaning equal resistance for each strings. Mixing your counts will create an unequal amount of resistance between the two strings and this would equate to a larger amount of current going threw the string with the lower amount of forward voltage (because it's less resistance) and a lesser amount of current passing through the other string since it has a higher amount of resistance. This would mean an unbalanced fixture. When running parallel strings the idea is to keep everything balanced.
You are correct on the way you are suggesting to run your blue's.
The way you are proposing to run your whites will work but understand this...it's only because to two different types of XPG's utilize the same forward voltages. So this wouldn't work for instance if you tried to run 12 XPE's on one string and 12 XR-E's (lets say) on another string. You could do 6 of each on each string but not have two totally different strings.
cipher43
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by xandrew245x http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462493
Okay, So over on reef central, the guy told me that you can't mix leds on a parallel string, well heres what I have planned out.
As I understand it and am doing on my own build you can mix colors on strings but the important thing is to have the strings balanced. So if you have 8 royal blues and 4 regular blues on one string you have to have the same mix on each string. hooked to that driver. also you may have to swap LEDs from strings to get them to balance on forward voltage.
Originally Posted by xandrew245x http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462493
Okay, So over on reef central, the guy told me that you can't mix leds on a parallel string, well heres what I have planned out.
As I understand it and am doing on my own build you can mix colors on strings but the important thing is to have the strings balanced. So if you have 8 royal blues and 4 regular blues on one string you have to have the same mix on each string. hooked to that driver. also you may have to swap LEDs from strings to get them to balance on forward voltage.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Just so I'm clear are you talking about running two drivers to drive each of the individual white strings? Or one driver for both white strings? If it's 1 driver for each string then disregard what I said about your white strings in my last comment. But it should still be something that you understand. Just my .02
xandrew245x
Member
2quills your amazing, i was so confused over on reef central, but what you just said made so much sense to me!
You couldn't run 12 xpes on one and 12 xres on the other because it would be unbalanced then right?
But like you said, you could run 6 of each, that way it creates a balanced circuit, I'm glad my whites have the same forward voltage or else I would be blind trying to figure out which is cool white and which is neutral.
So my plan will work? I want to keep soldering, but I'm using thermal grease, and it doesn't seem to be set up, so i'm going to wait until tomorrow to see if its sticking a little better than it is now.
Thank you so much corey, your a lifesaver!
You couldn't run 12 xpes on one and 12 xres on the other because it would be unbalanced then right?
But like you said, you could run 6 of each, that way it creates a balanced circuit, I'm glad my whites have the same forward voltage or else I would be blind trying to figure out which is cool white and which is neutral.
So my plan will work? I want to keep soldering, but I'm using thermal grease, and it doesn't seem to be set up, so i'm going to wait until tomorrow to see if its sticking a little better than it is now.
Thank you so much corey, your a lifesaver!
xandrew245x
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462501
Just so I'm clear are you talking about running two drivers to drive each of the individual white strings? Or one driver for both white strings? If it's 1 driver for each string then disregard what I said about your white strings in my last comment. But it should still be something that you understand. Just my .02
I was going to use two seperate drivers, and just run them in series, so I could control the brightness of each set, but like I said, I royally screwed up and never labeled, so i have no clue which ones are which for the whites, so i'm going to just run the parallel off of one driver, 8 on each side. This will work correct?
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462501
Just so I'm clear are you talking about running two drivers to drive each of the individual white strings? Or one driver for both white strings? If it's 1 driver for each string then disregard what I said about your white strings in my last comment. But it should still be something that you understand. Just my .02
I was going to use two seperate drivers, and just run them in series, so I could control the brightness of each set, but like I said, I royally screwed up and never labeled, so i have no clue which ones are which for the whites, so i'm going to just run the parallel off of one driver, 8 on each side. This will work correct?
2quills
Well-Known Member
Yep, you got it.
Here's an idea. Since the XPG whites are significantly more powerful then the blues and that's why a lot of folks go with a higher blue to white ratio this is what I suggest...
Driver A - 12 XTE's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
Driver B - 12 XTE's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
Driver C - 6 Blues + 2 XTE Royal's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
6 NW + 6 CW
Driver D - (ran in parallel for a maximum output of 650mA per string).
6 NW + 6 CW
That's what I'd do with what you have.
Here's an idea. Since the XPG whites are significantly more powerful then the blues and that's why a lot of folks go with a higher blue to white ratio this is what I suggest...
Driver A - 12 XTE's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
Driver B - 12 XTE's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
Driver C - 6 Blues + 2 XTE Royal's (driver set to maximum output of 850mA)
6 NW + 6 CW
Driver D - (ran in parallel for a maximum output of 650mA per string).
6 NW + 6 CW
That's what I'd do with what you have.
xandrew245x
Member
Okay, so you think I should just run the blues in series using 3 drivers? Or can I still do them in a parallel string.
For Driver D do I have to balance between NW and CW? I looked at the specs for them, and the both have the same forward voltage and such. The reason for this is because like I said, I don't know which one are neutral and which ones are cool now because of my stupidity.
I have 4 of them soldered together and I tested them, and to me it looks like I have two cools and two neutrals, but I can't tell 100%
I should be able to do them in parallel as long as I have the same amount of leds on each side, since they are the same led by what the stats say, just a different color.
If not, I guess i can try to figure out which is which.
I'm going to put the resistors and fuses right after the drivers on each string of leds, so I should only need 5 resistors and fuses right?
Also, has anyone used the thermal grease that comes with the kits from rapidled? I got it with mine, and I have to say, I don't really like it to much.
2quills
Well-Known Member
You only need fuses on your parallel strings.
Thermal grease is for folks who have drilled heatsinks. The thermal past is for those who don't. You shouldn't try and use both.
Your whites should be fine. If it were my I'd try to figure out which is which and swap them around now while you're still in the build process. But it's not life or death.
Thermal grease is for folks who have drilled heatsinks. The thermal past is for those who don't. You shouldn't try and use both.
Your whites should be fine. If it were my I'd try to figure out which is which and swap them around now while you're still in the build process. But it's not life or death.
xandrew245x
Member
Okay, well I used the thermal grease, but I wasn't planning on drilling and screwing these down, what should I do now.
I'm thinking my only options are to either drill and screw them all down, or scape it all off and use the thermal glue.
I'm thinking my only options are to either drill and screw them all down, or scape it all off and use the thermal glue.
xandrew245x
Member
I did a little research, I won't have to take anything off and clean, since I was easy on the thermal grease, I didn't really have any squish out the sides or anything, so I could simple use some thermal epoxy along the sides of the led start and it will bond it to the surface. With the thermal grease underneath and the epoxy around the edge, it should make a strong enough bond easily.
I find this much easier than either drilling everyone, or taking them all off and cleaning.
I find this much easier than either drilling everyone, or taking them all off and cleaning.
xandrew245x
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462564
I think you're going to have to. The grease is not an adhesive. You dont want your leds to fall of when they heat up.
Yeah, I edited my post right after you read it probably, some people prefer the thermal grease over the epoxy, so what they did was put thermal grease under it, and use epoxy to bond the edges down to the surface, with how strong epoxy is, and how light the leds are, I think this would work perfectly.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/390400/xandrew25xs-diy-led-build/120#post_3462564
I think you're going to have to. The grease is not an adhesive. You dont want your leds to fall of when they heat up.
Yeah, I edited my post right after you read it probably, some people prefer the thermal grease over the epoxy, so what they did was put thermal grease under it, and use epoxy to bond the edges down to the surface, with how strong epoxy is, and how light the leds are, I think this would work perfectly.
xandrew245x
Member
If this isn't a good idea, then I guess i'll go home and start cleaning stars...I'm thinking about going that way anyways, just so its a little easier in the long run.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Eh....to be honest the idea sounds a little sketchy to me. There may be a few other guus doing it that way but something in the back of my mind is telling me it may not be the best idea.
Personally id redo them while you still can. If you dont have a little bit of ooze then your stars arent properly covered on the bottom and thats going to hinder the leds ability to transfer thier heat to the bars. And since youre using bars instead of actual heat sinks id think the last thin youd want to do is sacrifice any thermal conductivity.
Personally id redo them while you still can. If you dont have a little bit of ooze then your stars arent properly covered on the bottom and thats going to hinder the leds ability to transfer thier heat to the bars. And since youre using bars instead of actual heat sinks id think the last thin youd want to do is sacrifice any thermal conductivity.
xandrew245x
Member
I will be getting my thermal epoxy tomorrow, I removed a couple stars and tried cleaning them with alcohol, and it work very very well, and it only took about 2 minutes, so it shouldn't take all that long to clean the rest.
I did a little test wiring last night, and put together a parallel string of 4 whites, and I do believe I can tell the difference between the neutrals and cools, so I think i'm going to through them all and try to figure it out.(which is probably going to mean soldering one I already know what it is, to another and light them up to see if they are different or the same)
For my whites though, i'm concerned, I will be using 1 driver that has a maximum output of 1.3A, now when I run that in parallel between two strings, that means I would only have a maximum of 650ma for each string, that is just half of what I could be running through the led. Is this going to be enough current for the whites, or do you think I should maybe pick up another driver and run the whites on two seperate.
I did a little test wiring last night, and put together a parallel string of 4 whites, and I do believe I can tell the difference between the neutrals and cools, so I think i'm going to through them all and try to figure it out.(which is probably going to mean soldering one I already know what it is, to another and light them up to see if they are different or the same)
For my whites though, i'm concerned, I will be using 1 driver that has a maximum output of 1.3A, now when I run that in parallel between two strings, that means I would only have a maximum of 650ma for each string, that is just half of what I could be running through the led. Is this going to be enough current for the whites, or do you think I should maybe pick up another driver and run the whites on two seperate.